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Old 20th January 2010, 08:59   #46
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German engineering in a Jap car, interesting combo!
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Old 20th January 2010, 09:22   #47
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
1) Have a look at this :
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...nown-crdi.html (Pumpe-Duse diesel technology as against better known CRDi)

PD has its own advantage, but even VW has replaced PD with CRDI.

2) IIRC, that 1.2 is a three cylinder. Where as Fiat SDE is four. It makes a difference in refinement and in bumper to bumper traffic.

Even hyundai's CRDi motors are not offering better figures than what VW is dishing out to us. Look at Verna. Its a good unit and then look at at what VW is offering.

The major point is delivering fuel efficient and well specs. CRDi engines below 2.0 ltr with cost efficiency. If they deliver it, what better news, but if they cant, both, VW and Suzuki will lose on volumes.

The 1248cc unit is one of the best small capacity motors in the world we can say. It has won awards and has proven itself in India. If worked upon, it is refined ( Swift/Dzire ) and can also give FE with good performace. All this at not very high cost.
Can VW match this ?
VW replaced pump deuse to reduce costs and it had nothing to do with efficiency.

I agree with you. But if Suzuki is ready to give VW a try (with money, effort etc.) shouldn't we guys give them a chance? Surely Suzuki knows what it does.

Also a company like VW is severely limited in India because of the fuel quality. MB and BMW does not have such a problem since they have a Asia wide program to customise their cars. VW cannot do that since unlike MB and BMW they do not run on a CKD basis.

Last edited by Trapezio : 20th January 2010 at 09:23.
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Old 13th September 2010, 07:40   #48
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And now, the deal has become more clear. "Volkswagen will be providing the know-how for diesels". And as per Suzuki management, they will be setting up a new plant in Manesar for the JV. So I think Fiat DDiS will co-exist with this new set of engines. In return, Volkswagen will be getting help from Maruti for producing a low cost car below 4 lakh (what kind of help?). I think the switching may turn out cost effective for Maruti since its like a barter deal. Now, Marutis are completely owed to Fiat for their engines as Fiat is not taking any help in return, but VW will. I think that's the major interest point for Maruti. But again, will the diesels from VW be as reliable and low cost maintenance as Fiats is a question. So how the deal will turn out for customers can't be commented upon.
More details on: Maruti Suzuki | Volkswagen Suzuki Deal | Small New Cars - Oneindia Living
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Old 13th September 2010, 14:50   #49
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know-how means they will develop engines for required capacities. And new plant. Both combined means a lead time of 2 years MINIMUM. This duration should be used by FIAT to fix it' own vehicle sales so that the dent in engine business can be compensated for.
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Old 13th September 2010, 15:05   #50
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Since Suzuki already owns the license for manufacturing 75bhp MJD, the JV between Suzuki-VW will be concentrating on developing higher output/CC engines for fitting in SX4, Kizashi,Grand Vitara etc. and also in the some of the VW vehicles.
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Old 30th October 2010, 20:20   #51
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source - Suzuki, Volkswagen likely to fix India plans by early 2011: Maruti - The Economic Times

quite possible now although Suzuki is silent on diesel engine. at least some thing is cooking up or do we get a Volkswagen diesel engine in second gen swift / d,zire

Quote:

NEW DELHI: Two leading global car makers — Suzuki and Volkswagen — are likely to announce India-specific plans that may include joint production and vehicle design by early next year.

Speaking to analysts in a conference call, Suzuki's subsidiary, Maruti Suzuki India (MSI)'s Managing Director and CEO Shinzo Nakanishi said both the companies are currently discussing various options.

"Some time end of this year or beginning of next year, they (Suzuki and Volkswagen) may announce some projects," he said when asked about the progress of the talks between the two global car majors on any India-specific project.

He, however, said nothing can be predicted till the negotiations are complete.

"We have got no definite information so far," he added. Volkswagen (VW) had last year picked up 19.9 per cent stake in Suzuki Motor Corp (SMC) for USD 2.5 billion, following which the partners have been exploring possibilities of joint production and vehicle design.

Early this month, Volkswagen AG Chairman Martin Winterkorn had said that the German firm is likely to finalise a decision by the first half of 2011 on the development of an India-specific small car with the Japanese firm.

"Small car, specifically for India, is one of the areas that we are discussing with Suzuki... This decision for India will probably be taken by spring 2011," he had said.

Besides, another discussion point between SMC and VW is about bringing in advanced diesel technology into India from the German carmaker's portfolio as MSI lacks in that front.

Winterkorn had said that VW and SMC are talking to share technologies to develop diesel engines, which in future may come to the Indian market also.

When asked whether MSI has any plans to introduce more diesel variants in addition to the 1.3 litre one, Nakanishi said: "We do not have plans to introduce other types of diesel engines. Right now, we do not have other source of diesel engines."

MSI offers diesel variants in hatchbacks Swift and Ritz and in entry-level sedan DZiRE. About 70 per cent of the total Swift and DZiRE sales come from diesel variants, while 55 per cent of Ritz are sold in the diesel option.

Earlier in May this year, top officials of MSI and VW India met to explore synergies in joint production, including contract manufacturing, and vehicle design.

While SMC is keen to get VW's technology, the German firm is interested in MSI's expertise in high volume production at a very competitive cost and efficiency.

A new entrant in India, VW is yet to gain firm ground. In contrast, MSI is the largest brand with just less than 50 per cent share in the 15 lakh units Indian car market.

Last edited by .sushilkumar : 30th October 2010 at 20:21.
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Old 30th October 2010, 21:36   #52
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The views were very bad when the thread had started, but post the VW Polo TDi the views have changed abt VW deisel engines.
Moreover, VW might have the advantage of scale when its producing for both VW and MSIL. So it might not be all that bad a thing for indian consumers. You never know it might become slightly cheaper than the DDiS with TDi engine.

But one thing is it would help VW once people see its the same engine, it might make few people to consider Polo over Swift.
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Old 30th October 2010, 21:42   #53
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People are skeptical about the VW TDi engines? I think the engines they have in Polo, Vento and the Jetta are fabulous. Certainly best in class.

VW diesels are well known for their ride, efficiency and clean emissions. Even in the US (where VW bombs generally) the Jetta TDi is very popular with enthusiasts.

Overall, I see this as a great move by Maruti. I'm sure the alliance will benefit them more than it does help VW.

Last edited by imjimmy : 30th October 2010 at 21:43.
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Old 31st October 2010, 08:11   #54
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VW TDi engines are equally good if not better; no doubt. But what we need to wait and see is the overall reliability of the engine at high odo readings and cost of engine repairs. If reliability is good and service costs at high mileages are comparable to that of FIAT engines, then we won't see anybody shying away from putting their money on these cars. And yes, the common man will still see it as a Maruti and for them, Maruti = Cheap + Reliable. There will be no significant dip in sales.
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Old 31st October 2010, 20:30   #55
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Default There will be no impact on sales !

Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselAddikt View Post
VW TDi engines are equally good if not better; no doubt. But what we need to wait and see is the overall reliability of the engine at high odo readings and cost of engine repairs. If reliability is good and service costs at high mileages are comparable to that of FIAT engines, then we won't see anybody shying away from putting their money on these cars. And yes, the common man will still see it as a Maruti and for them, Maruti = Cheap + Reliable. There will be no significant dip in sales.
I think only few auto enthusiasts knows about FIAT diesel engine is used by Maruti in swift. Few more knows that it is being used in Indica/Indigo by Tata. Majority of population don't know about these things i.e. CRDi, DDis, FIRE,Dicor and so on. For them Maruti is cheap/reliable/good FE and service available at every corner, Tata is cheap/rugged, Hyundai little costly/reliable and all others are costly with major A.S.S problems.
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Old 31st October 2010, 21:10   #56
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I wouldnt want to see the 1.2 TDi in the Swift/Ritz. The current engine is better IMO.

What this could mean/ what I hope for, is to see the SX4 with the Vento Diesel engine/higher Suzuki models with VW engines. That would seal the deal for my next car away from Chevy diesels.
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Old 24th February 2011, 08:19   #57
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Default Re: Suzuki to switch from Fiat to VW diesels

Wonder what happened to VW Diesels in Suzuki cars - the SX4 would have made better sense with the 1.6 TDI than the 1.3 MJD VGT.
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Old 3rd June 2011, 23:00   #58
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Default Maruti to stick with Fiat Multi-Jet 1.3L diesel

Quote:
Maruti to stick with Fiat Multi-Jet 1.3L diesel instead of switching to VW TDI

India’s most preferred diesel engine is the Fiat Multijet 1.3L diesel, which currently powers Maruti Swift, Ritz, Fiat Palio Stile, Tata Indica Vista, Maruti SX4, Maruti DZire, Fiat Grande Punto, Fiat Linea and Tata Manza. Future cars like Maruti RIII, Chevy Beat diesel, Premiwe Rio, etc will also be powered by the same Fiat Multijet diesel heart.
Fiat is also very happy manufacturing engines for the bigger players in the Indian auto industry. According to a report, Maruti will be selling 30 lakh cars by 2015. More than half of these will be diesel powered. So in order to keep up with the demand, Fiat will have to churn out more Multijet diesel engines from their Ranjangaon facility near Pune.
Maruti also has their own multijet manufacturing unit in Manesar facility which they are not looking at expanding as of now as Fiat India will be manufacturing more at their Ranjangaon unit. This also means that Maruti cars will not have to use the VW’s 1.2L TDI diesel unit, which is installed in Polo as they are not as economical as Fiat Multijets, reported ICB.
Source
  • This is a good move IMHO. The VW diesels are no match to the Multijet on the refinement front
  • Interesting point there about Fiat supplying MSIL with Diesels engines from their Ranjangaon plant. Wonder why Maruti is not looking at increasing their own capacity.

Last edited by fiat_tarun : 3rd June 2011 at 23:03.
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Old 4th June 2011, 00:55   #59
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Default Re: Suzuki to switch from Fiat to VW diesels

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiat_tarun View Post
  • Interesting point there about Fiat supplying MSIL with Diesels engines from their Ranjangaon plant. Wonder why Maruti is not looking at increasing their own capacity.
MSIL have got the license to produce just limited number on engines(~250000 engines/year) as per their previously signed agreement with Fiat & beyond that capacity they need to upgrade their agreement with Fiat, involving huge costs.
IMHO, they Might be developing their own Diesel engine in collabration with VW for their own range of cars & that seems to be the probable reason for which they're avoiding Capacity increment at their Manesar plant yet.
But considering their present situation its beneficial for them to increase the capacity of Manesar engine plant if they're planning to use this Fiat engine for atleast 2015 in India as huge volumes of that engines by that time will not only justify the costs involved instead it'll drive the Maruti Suzuki into heavy profits by then.
Just imagine the current scenario of Maruti Suzuki if they aren't having any Diesel engine to power their range. Defintely Hyundai & Tata would've been on the top spot by now.
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Old 4th June 2011, 18:46   #60
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Default Re: Suzuki to switch from Fiat to VW diesels

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Originally Posted by ph03n!x View Post
Wonder what happened to VW Diesels in Suzuki cars - the SX4 would have made better sense with the 1.6 TDI than the 1.3 MJD VGT.
MSIL have stretched the 1.3 MJD far enough. The upcoming Maruti Suzuki MPV might be the heaviest car to be powered by that Fiat diesel. About time Suzuki thought about VW diesels for their bigger vehicles, ie, the GV and Kizashi if they are to make an impact in India.
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