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Old 18th January 2010, 16:01   #16
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Originally Posted by Gandhi View Post
The delivery note (on a stamp paper) has his name and address, but for the Ownership transfer form - he insisted that the Name field be kept blank.
1. If I understood your right, the sale agreement (on the stamp paper) is good with his name & address, means, you can prove that you've sold it to this middleman. Pls note that I'm not refering to the delivery note, that your friend has signed off to give him to state car is sold to him with mutual agreement.
2. But the ownership transfer form, which I assume is form 29, has only his name left out, but contains his addess & signature.

Pls help me understand. Thanks.

Note - I'm using the word middleman to indicate the person to whom the car has been sold initially.

Last edited by aargee : 18th January 2010 at 16:12. Reason: content improvisation for better understanding
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Old 18th January 2010, 16:01   #17
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Rule no. 1 : NEVER sell your car on incomplete transfer papers. Sign only on paperwork that has been duly filled out.

Rule no. 1 : Intimate your RTO (where the car was registered) within 14 days of sale.

These, and a lot more precautions, on our selling a car article (ARTICLE: How to sell a *USED* car in India).

Your friend should intimate the RTO ASAP (as outlined in the article). Also, send the seller a letter from his lawyer stating facts (when the car was sold, proof of the same, why the car hasn't been transferred yet). May sound like a long procedure, but technically, your friend is responsible today should that car kill someone on the road.
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Old 18th January 2010, 16:06   #18
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Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
I strongly feel, now this guy is trying to extort money from your friend, Tell your friend to approach the nearest police station and tell them that he sold the car to someone and now he is not transfering the car and now he is saying that he needs a new sale note with no buyers name on it, tell the cops that you suspect that the car might be used for some terriorist activities and submit a copy of all the documents duly attested, Then take a copy of the complaint and leave a peaceful life. Since after doing all this its not your friends problem any longer.

Pramod

Yes, please file a report with the traffic cops and also send a letter with the relevant forms to the RTO. furnish a copy of the delivery note as well and sleep in peace!
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Old 18th January 2010, 16:26   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandhi View Post
Thanks for all the replies.

The delivery note (on a stamp paper) has his name and address, but for the Ownership transfer form - he insisted that the Name field be kept blank.

---
The name in the delivery note should be written in the transfer form.
In anycase, you said it is kept as blank? Now you can fill up the name which is there in the delivery note,.
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Old 18th January 2010, 17:01   #20
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Some buyers/middlemen do not change the ownership in RC book as it increments the ownership count and the resale value of the car/bike reduces.

If you sell to a person who intends to keep the vehicle for a short time (like short visit/transfer to a new city) and resell it later, then most probably he will be reluctant to change the RC in his/her name.

-BJ
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Old 18th January 2010, 18:17   #21
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Even i am stuck in this- i made a mistake and dunno how to get out:(
The guy who took the car- sent me the papers scanned copies. How ever the delivery note does not have his sign and neither does the Form 29. Form 30
Can i take the copies of those and send them to RTO or i need his proof of identity also?
All this is done on good faith, should never trust anyone in fact:(
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Old 18th January 2010, 23:03   #22
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Here is my proforma for Transfer of Ownership of Motor Vehicles

TO WHOMSOEVER IT MAY CONCERN

Certified that we namely Shri_______________ , s/o____________ resident of ____________________________(seller) and Shri______________________________________________ _______________son of Shri______________________________________________ __ ____residentof____________________________________ _____________(buyer) have entered into an agreement to sell the automobile (make,class and model year)_______________bearing registration no.________________ , engine no.___________and chassis no._______________in a mechanically fit, sound and satisfactory running condition to the buyer. The automobile has been checked by a competent mechanic and the buyer Shri________________________ is fully satisfied. No complaints of any kind whatsoever as far as the automobile (make) _______________bearing registration no. __________________ is concerned will be entertained hereinafter by the seller.
The sale is being effected from this ______day of __________ during the year_______ at _________A.M./P.M after which every action with the automobile (make)________________registration no. _______________________will solely be the liability and responsibility of the buyer Shri_______________ who is also the new owner, hereinafter the quoted date and time from when the sale is effected. The seller Shri _____________________bears no liability and responsibility hereinafter since the sale is fully effected.
The buyer Shri___________________________________undertakes to effect the transfer of ownership viz. insurance, registration and taxation certificates in his own name within a reasonable time period of time, in any case not later than two weeks from the date of the sale.
The sale is being effected for a consideration of a sum of Rupees_________ which the buyer has paid the seller by Cash/Cheque/ Demand Draft/Bankers cheque bearing no.______________dated and drawn on (bank and branch).


signed with name and address signed with name and address


(BUYER) (SELLER)

Dated

Witnesses
(1) Signature Name and Address_________________________

(2) Signature Name and Address_________________________

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is a proforma for all of us who may sell his or her automobiles- Its very essential as there are cases when the new buyer does not transfer the vehicle in his or her name and in such cases all the liabilities rest with the old owner who was the seller.Thefts , criminal acts including involvement in accidents or acts of terrorism and everything else like evasion of taxes and insurance will all be the responsibility of the owner in whose name the vehicle is registered at the time of commitment of such acts.
In Maharashtra we compulsorily require an affidavit on a stamp paper, signed by a notary now a days, where this proforma can be printed.
Now a days people buy a motor vehicle , get the transfer papers signed but choose not to transfer ownership for some obvious reasons. Then the onus of responsibility for any civil and criminal wrong doings with the motor vehicle rests with the registered owner, who sadly is the seller without a voice now. If the time and date of sale and the terms for transfer of ownership (say within two weeks from the date of purchase) is recorded thats a legal document which can save the seller should any unforeseen event happen!
Insurance transfer should take place first, prior to the RTO transfer/mutation of ownership based on the sale deed or document. This done by the new owner and there's no need for the seller (vendor) to inform the insurers.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In this instant case mentioned the seller can send a legal notice to the buyer whosoever has bought the motor vehicle initially and has evidently received the papers (presumably the seller has obtained the buyer's signature with date on the seller's receipt which is evidence enough that the ownership has changed but has not been registered with the Regnl Transport Authority).Also personally visit the RTO office with the papers and submit an application stating the facts (get it drafted by a lawyer-better still if he accompanies you to the RTO office) and obtain a receipt of that letter on its duplicate copy from the inward dak desk in the RTO office.
Thereafter seeking the lawyer's advice a public notice can be published in at least one or two prominent local dailies of the city where the buyer resides, citing the non-transfer of ownership and explicitly stating that "the seller shall in no way whatsoever be responsible for any misdeeds,unlawful activities or any acts of omission or commission with the motor vehicle (state make, model,type of body,registration number, engine and chassis nos.)by the buyer or any other person who directly or indirectly uses the motor vehicle for such misdeeds,unlawful activities or any acts of omission or commission. The liability of such misdeeds,unlawful activities or any acts of omission or commission shall solely rest with the buyer of the motor vehicle."

Last edited by anjan_c2007 : 18th January 2010 at 23:06.
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Old 19th January 2010, 18:01   #23
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Save your self the effort. Just report the car stolen. Tell the local cops the truth and where to find the buyer and the car. Everything will get sorted out by itself.
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Old 19th January 2010, 18:22   #24
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Originally Posted by wanderernomad View Post
Save your self the effort. Just report the car stolen. Tell the local cops the truth and where to find the buyer and the car. Everything will get sorted out by itself.
This can be done but forst find out how well connected that guy is. if this dosent go as per plan you could land in trouble.

Rather just report to the RTO on record and forget abt it.
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Old 19th January 2010, 19:26   #25
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Originally Posted by KSM-Vtec View Post
This can be done but forst find out how well connected that guy is. if this dosent go as per plan you could land in trouble.

Rather just report to the RTO on record and forget abt it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderernomad View Post
Save your self the effort. Just report the car stolen. Tell the local cops the truth and where to find the buyer and the car. Everything will get sorted out by itself.
Very immature suggestion: Never do so. Not only unlawful but can trigger a criminal case against you as seller and may make you liable for arrest. You as the seller have taken the purchase price of the second hand car from the buyer and have issued him a receipt.Then how on the earth can the car be reported as stolen?
Use only the lawful procedures to get that buyer on track.There are umpteen law abiding remedies which you can resort to.

Last edited by anjan_c2007 : 19th January 2010 at 19:30.
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Old 19th January 2010, 20:06   #26
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What a soup.
1. What was the mode of payment? If it was other than cash, then the person paying is answerable for the transfer of funds to you. So even if the transfer form is blank (this he did because maybe he wanted to buy from you and sell to another without a name transfer?)
2. Fill the transfer form with supporting documents and submit to RTO with an acknowledgement as earlier discussed in the thread.
3. Send a legal notice to the buyer, publish indemnifying ads in dailies where the vehicle was registered.
4. File a separate complaint with the RTO that an untransferred vehicle is plying on the roads even after your selling it as the owner refuses to transfer ownership. It is illegal to use this car. See whether the car may be challaned (what would you expect if you drove around a car which is not in your name?).
5. Also check with a lawyer whether an FIR can be filed. I'm sure the middleman is not doing something legal.
6. After all this, the buyer may come threatening to take the car back at full refund (claiming damage as he seems to say).
7. GO TO A LAWYER ASAP AND REFRAIN FROM FOOLHARDY THINGS.
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Old 19th January 2010, 22:27   #27
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I agree with everyone above - go the legal / police route. Get this resolved asap.

As far as the car giving trouble is concerned, that's not your friend's problem. There's no warranty at stake here. The car was bought in a certain condition, and what happens to it after that is the buyer's problem.
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Old 19th January 2010, 22:29   #28
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Originally Posted by vikrantj View Post
There is a way out in this . The original owner (Transferer) who is selling the car, must inform the RTO with which the car was registered about this transfer, by sending a letter with information about the new owner (Transferee) within a period of 14 days. In case the new owner falls in jurisdiction of another RTO, then the owner has to inform that RTO by sending a similar letter. On receiving an acknowledgement of receipt of the letter from the RTO, the seller (Transferer) is indemnified of all legal, tax, traffic, criminal and other liabilities pertaining to the car. The seller must also take a delivery note signed by the buyer (Transferee).

The transfer form is called TCA or something check with you RTO office. You have to send this by registered AD and make sure you get the acknowledgement. And yeah keep the acknowledgement and delivery note from new owner close to your heart.

--- Vikrant
Vikrant I did the same with my 2 Nos. Motorcycles recently I informed the RTO and got aucknowledgement on th e letter of information
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Old 20th January 2010, 12:37   #29
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Guys,I am new here .So pls excuse any slipups.

Gandhi,I am in Kerala and any transfer details notified by post( even Regd.Post w/ ack due) would get promptly thrown into the dustbin only. In any case the acknowledgement copy acknowledges only the receipt of the cover to the RTO Dept. and not the actual recording of the sale ( which is why we have the actual tranfer formalities).

What a lot of us are doing is to inform the buyer beforehand that the orginal RC Book will not be handed over and that he will have to submit the required transfer paperwork and the transfer is done by the seller himself. ( Yes, the buyer would have to trust the seller a bit on this.) Other than this ,I see no proper way out of this .
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Old 24th January 2010, 21:18   #30
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Gandhi,

I have a few questions to you or your friend.

1. Did you fill up the Form 29 and 30 in duplicate completely with the name of the purchaser, date of sale or have you signed on blank Forms , as most people do. (Never ever sign on blank forms)

2. Did you have a Comprehensive or Third party Insurance policy.

3. Do you have photocopies of these forms. (Suggest always keep one set)

4. Do you have proof of address of the buyer. Ask him/her for a photocopy(xerox) of drivers licence, pan card copy, Voters ID an a PP size photographs.

5.Do you have Original copy of the Delivery Note signed by the buyer along with signature of atleast one witness ( two could be better)

6. Have you atleast mentioned the Regd. No. and the date of sale on all these forms.

After seeing your reply I shall offer a perfect solution to safeguard your interest. I shall also put up the entire list of safeguards to be taken in case of sale of purchase on any Automobile.

Please treat this process with lot of seriousness probably much more than buying & selling a property. I think it only a matter of time when both the Buyer and the seller will have to be physically present at the RTO to complete the transaction, like the Sub-registrars office.

God bless.....
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