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Old 9th April 2009, 18:51   #31
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Even if the start giving off cars for free they will milk out every penny in service. I am still in shock and awe about the repair bill of my last service where I got the clutch changed.
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Old 9th April 2009, 18:52   #32
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Originally Posted by Yeldo View Post
Well, the same story was reported by ACI earlier. From what I read from the ET, the Octavia is going to be phased out in two years, and its replacement now appears to be aimed at a segment lower.

The Octavia is not phased out everywhere: it is still sold all over Europe (though not in UK, I think) as "Octavia Tour." It is somewhat a classic shape and design which somehow doesn't look outdated. It is sold with the same 1.9TD Diesel engine along with the 1.8 Turbo & 1.6 petrols.

It's sad news to hear the good old Octy is going to be stopped. Introduced us Indians to superior build quality, Diesel economy, prestige, and a frontal appearance that some folks mistook for a Mercedes at first. It evokes a feeling similar to M800, Esteem and the Qualis, a true trend setter.

I know many Mercedes owners(still) using Octavias for daily trips, and even some W124 E class owners buying Octavias to replace their cars.
Yes it is sold as the octavia tour.

One thing you missed out, the octi also taught us how some manufacturers cheat people buying their cars.
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Old 9th April 2009, 19:02   #33
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I guess someone must have told them to take a cab!
Well, they might have taken cues from all over Europe and North Africa and the Levant: Mercedes E class as taxis.

I still find it difficult to palate the argument that (Indian) Toyotas and Hondas are better than comparable Skodas. I am a solid fan of the Octavia, having owned two in the past. (Though I endorse fully the views of most Team- BHPians over the A.S. & S. and dealership aspects)
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Old 9th April 2009, 21:25   #34
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One thing you missed out, the octi also taught us how some manufacturers cheat people buying their cars.
O.K... but from my experience almost all companies are more or less the same.

Might be slightly , but Mercedes dealer charging in 1/2% of the car's price for a routine service, BMW dealer goofing up on run-flat tires, Chevrolet cutting prices only few days within you buying their car, Fiat dealers taking booking money and making the customer run round in circles, Tata workshops where technicians take out customer vehicles for joyrides and crash them, Honda dealership changing OE Bridgestones and battery for inferior ones because the customer bargained a good deal for a year- end model, Hyundai workshop just washing up your car which you gave for some mechanical work and charging a full bill, Maruti service over inflating your tire by 10 pounds and misplacing your unused spare tire with somebody else's bald one, staff at Mahindra dealer workshop making you wait for 2 hours for delivering your new vehicle because you did not give a "token handshake" when you made an earlier purchase, Toyota dealer sitting on your booking money for the Qualis for weeks which he had by the dozens in his yard,... the list is endless.

So, nothing specially bad at Skoda people. The only 100% satisfactory service & sales experience I got in all these years is at ONE of the two Hyundai dealerships in Cochin. So why target Skoda alone? What I mean is NOT that Skoda is OK, but everybody else is more or less the same.

And, any of us still remembering old days when you took delivery of your brand new Ambassador, then going straight to the local workshop to get it welded, painted & re- upholstered? Or those days when you addressed managers at Maruti dealership "sir"?

Whew! Afraid that I got carried away.

Last edited by Yeldo : 9th April 2009 at 21:32.
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Old 9th April 2009, 23:37   #35
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i recently bought a 2002 july skoda octavia ambiente white color run about 75k from mumbai. was it a good deal or not?
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Old 10th April 2009, 08:14   #36
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Forget to see a Skoda at Rs. 3-4 lakhs. About the new Octavia, I expect the Fabia sedan to be branded as new Octavia and will be priced at around Rs. 9-10 lakh to take on the G3HC. The diesel power might be of some help.
The Octavia based on Golf VI is yet to arrive, even Jetta based on that has not arrived. Expected Laura to remain where it is. When the new Octavia based no Golf VI comes up, it will be placed where Laura is right now. The present Laura will come down a bit to the present Octavia levels of Rs. 12-14 Lakh. Below that, the Fabia sedan will do its job.

But by no means can we expect a Rs. 3-4lakh Skoda car. VW might be spending a lot of time just planning for placing its brands. Skoda had already made VW brand entry very difficult.

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i recently bought a 2002 july skoda octavia ambiente white color run about 75k from mumbai. was it a good deal or not?
At what cost ?
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Old 10th April 2009, 09:18   #37
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There was a time when I used to see the Octy or Laura on the road and used to dream of owning it. Now I just feel pity for the owner!!!! Poor soul doesn't know what trap he's into!
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Old 10th April 2009, 10:01   #38
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Originally Posted by Yeldo View Post
O.K... but from my experience almost all companies are more or less the same.

Might be slightly , but Mercedes dealer charging in 1/2% of the car's price for a routine service, BMW dealer goofing up on run-flat tires, Chevrolet cutting prices only few days within you buying their car, Fiat dealers taking booking money and making the customer run round in circles, Tata workshops where technicians take out customer vehicles for joyrides and crash them, Honda dealership changing OE Bridgestones and battery for inferior ones because the customer bargained a good deal for a year- end model, Hyundai workshop just washing up your car which you gave for some mechanical work and charging a full bill, Maruti service over inflating your tire by 10 pounds and misplacing your unused spare tire with somebody else's bald one, staff at Mahindra dealer workshop making you wait for 2 hours for delivering your new vehicle because you did not give a "token handshake" when you made an earlier purchase, Toyota dealer sitting on your booking money for the Qualis for weeks which he had by the dozens in his yard,... the list is endless.

So, nothing specially bad at Skoda people. The only 100% satisfactory service & sales experience I got in all these years is at ONE of the two Hyundai dealerships in Cochin. So why target Skoda alone? What I mean is NOT that Skoda is OK, but everybody else is more or less the same.

And, any of us still remembering old days when you took delivery of your brand new Ambassador, then going straight to the local workshop to get it welded, painted & re- upholstered? Or those days when you addressed managers at Maruti dealership "sir"?

Whew! Afraid that I got carried away.
Nope you didn't get carried away, Those are exactly, exactly the views I share.
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Old 10th April 2009, 10:58   #39
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yeldo - it is relative.
how many cases u see of maruti/hyundai services bungling up on routine maintenance..
very very few. also with them u have other options.. whereas skoda and other dealer u have to go to them or someone known to u who handles those care.. so very limited options.
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Old 10th April 2009, 12:06   #40
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And we also need to check the bungling up value also, monetary as well as time.
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Old 10th April 2009, 15:02   #41
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@Yeldo and ACM: It is not the same. As GTO pointed out, the number of Skoda owners who are unsatisfied with their cars is greater than the number of unsatisfied owners of any car.
Skoda charges nearly 1% of the cars cost as a routing service. In a period of 5 years, you are paying for 10% of the original cost as service. That is without replacing parts. With part replacement it only increases. There are examples of a clutch replacement costing 2.5% of the cars cost, a single headlight being quoted for 2.5% of the original cost and what not.
Unlike Mercedes, which charges 0.5% per service by properly trained, courteous staff, Skoda charges a higher % of the cost for shoddy work, and highly priced spares which give up on you before their time.

As for BMW's run-flats, they are a safety device more than anything. When tubeless tyres were new in India, one could say the same due to their high price and lack of shops that could repair a puncture successfully, but now, everyone recommends tubeless tyres.

As for Chevrolet reducing prices, Skoda discontinued the model (Combi in our case)!

Also, there have been instances when Skoda dealers have damaged cars, misplaced parts, kept people waiting, put in spurious parts and what not.

The examples you have given above are rare occurrences. Compare the units sold of the product to the service problems faced and you will see that Skoda is consistently higher than other manufacturers.
Also, Skoda has no right to 'instigate' us at T-BHP when we share our experiences. It wasn't like we were only targeting Skoda, but we do listen to complaints about other manufacturers and give credit where it is due (for eg: the Superb has gotten a lot of praises here for its price, quality and features), but then again, we are highlighting the minuses as well so consumers are aware of what they are getting in to. Skoda has however just made it worse for themselves with their antics.
IMO, they spend more time coming up with excuses for the poor work than trying to improve themselves.
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Old 10th April 2009, 16:11   #42
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@Yeldo and ACM:
Skoda charges nearly 1% of the cars cost as a routing service. In a period of 5 years, you are paying for 10% of the original cost as service. That is without replacing parts.
This is amazing starategy by Skoda. For every 1000 units sold, they virtually squeeze out sale of 100 additional units over long-term ownership.
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Old 13th April 2009, 11:37   #43
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Originally Posted by madhukar_n View Post
yeldo - it is relative.
how many cases u see of maruti/hyundai services bungling up on routine maintenance..
very very few. also with them u have other options.. whereas skoda and other dealer u have to go to them or someone known to u who handles those care.. so very limited options.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamborghini View Post
@Yeldo and ACM: It is not the same. As GTO pointed out, the number of Skoda owners who are unsatisfied with their cars is greater than the number of unsatisfied owners of any car.
Skoda charges nearly 1% of the cars cost as a routing service. In a period of 5 years, you are paying for 10% of the original cost as service. That is without replacing parts. With part replacement it only increases. There are examples of a clutch replacement costing 2.5% of the cars cost, a single headlight being quoted for 2.5% of the original cost and what not.
Unlike Mercedes, which charges 0.5% per service by properly trained, courteous staff, Skoda charges a higher % of the cost for shoddy work, and highly priced spares which give up on you before their time.

As for BMW's run-flats, they are a safety device more than anything. When tubeless tyres were new in India, one could say the same due to their high price and lack of shops that could repair a puncture successfully, but now, everyone recommends tubeless tyres.

As for Chevrolet reducing prices, Skoda discontinued the model (Combi in our case)!

Also, there have been instances when Skoda dealers have damaged cars, misplaced parts, kept people waiting, put in spurious parts and what not.

The examples you have given above are rare occurrences. Compare the units sold of the product to the service problems faced and you will see that Skoda is consistently higher than other manufacturers.
Also, Skoda has no right to 'instigate' us at T-BHP when we share our experiences. It wasn't like we were only targeting Skoda, but we do listen to complaints about other manufacturers and give credit where it is due (for eg: the Superb has gotten a lot of praises here for its price, quality and features), but then again, we are highlighting the minuses as well so consumers are aware of what they are getting in to. Skoda has however just made it worse for themselves with their antics.
IMO, they spend more time coming up with excuses for the poor work than trying to improve themselves.
Madukar & Lambo

I totally agree with you on Skoda being incorrect in the way it replied to the complaint post.

Yet would like to mention that the ratio of Skoda car owners who are a part of the Forum compared to those of other cars may be higher. (Typical profile of car owners who would go to the web to stury car related stuff.) This is an assumtion as I am a marketing professional, but the actuall facts can be know from GTO. What i am implying here is that the ratio of defect (which would invariably be posted by member) could be higher due to the higher ratio of members compared to cars sold for Skoda (which sells less than 1% of the cars in the country.)

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This is amazing starategy by Skoda. For every 1000 units sold, they virtually squeeze out sale of 100 additional units over long-term ownership.
Nope it is not 1%

The Routine Laura service cost Rs. 8000-1000 (with Synthetic Oil) for a car costing Rs. 19L on the Road. this works out closer to 0.5%.

Stuff like tyres / brake Pads etc are equally costly in all cars, nothing special about the Skoda here.

Have been through the service records of two long term Merc. (one the 1995 version E250 Diesel E-Class and the other the 2001 year S-Class S320 Petrol. In both cases have witnessed bills of that are around 1-2% of the cost of the car for authorized Service centres. GTO I guess owns a merc C-Class and can comment better. The Mercs that I am referring to are owned by a close colleague and my help was taken on multiple occations to negotiate with the authorized service centre and understand if the stuff that needed replacements was actually required. Bills of 25K and less have been rare, 30-40K are routine and when something went wrong the cost was as high as 1L, 3L & 4L on the three distinct occations that I remember. (AC control unit, door Control unit - S Class). A broken mirror mirror meant Rs. 40,000 and these have finally resulted in third party service centres being used. The Lates Auto Car - Apr 2009 issue states that the routine service cost for an E220 are around Rs. 30,000 for each service.

Given that Skoda is less reliable that the Honda, but the Parts comparission in March 2009 Autocar clearly mentions that the New Accord has a much higher ratio of car cost vs cost of a select parts bin (including regualar repair).

A xenon light cost a fair bit in all cars where it is provided, and one would not grudge Skoda to charge higher for the Xenon Lights would we? Expecially Auto leveling ones?
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Old 13th April 2009, 12:42   #44
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Originally Posted by ACM View Post

The Routine Laura service cost Rs. 8000-1000 (with Synthetic Oil) for a car costing Rs. 19L on the Road. this works out closer to 0.5%.

Have been through the service records of two long term Merc. In both cases have witnessed bills of that are around 1-2% of the cost of the car for authorized Service centres. Bills of 25K and less have been rare

New Accord has a much higher ratio of car cost vs cost of a select parts bin (including regualar repair).

A xenon light cost a fair bit in all cars where it is provided, and one would not grudge Skoda to charge higher for the Xenon Lights would we?
Well, regarding the service costs of the Laura, you are more or less correct. But a higher number of the first Lauras with DSG boxes had some gearbox issues.

A Mercedes bill >25,000 is a rarity. Well, that makes you "feel special", doesn't it?. Worse, if you take it to an outside workshop, it is said to void the so- called "goodwill lifetime assurance" that Mercedes gives on the engine, differential and gearbox.

Coming to Honda and Toyota, what should we compare Skodas with? City? Qualis? Innova-n?? And have any one of us seen the cars Honda/ Toyota sell in Europe? Touched and felt how superior they are compared to what they offer us Indians? Skoda offer us what they sell in Europe, save for some engine options and advanced features. Honda says "Indian" Diesel is inferior- BMW has no issues, but Honda has! Compare last- gen European Corolla with current- gen Altis- (I have driven both)- what a difference in build & quality!

And, have you ever experienced servicing a 6- lakh (when new) Qualis? What sort of bill Toyota service centers used to give you? And the money you lose when you sell a Camry or Accord? (That is if you can find a buyer at all- at least in Kerala). Now offer an Octy, a Laura, a Superb- if you are reasonable, a Skoda shall sell within 3- 4 days.

Coming to the Xenons, except for the Altis, what Honda/ Toyota vehicle offers decent levels of equipment in comparison with Skoda? Xenons anywhere? Remember the first Citys? I had one- good FE and performance, but little else- remember the horrible upholstery and squeaking dash? Compare it with an Octavia- (I had both side- by- side at one time).

The Japanese cars sell only because they are masters in judging that Indians, having been exposed only to Ambassadors and Padminis, have less expectations about quality and value. They (rightly?) consider our standards below par to the Europeans. And they give us cars with high- revving and less noisy engines (Honda) which makes Indian drivers feel heavenly, and vehicles that can haul 12 people on 8 -seat permits (Toyota).

Regarding to the higher number of Skoda owners on this Forum- if that is true, then may we judge that Skoda owners, despite the "Diesel" image, are auto enthusiasts?

Finally, I think it is time for us to share views and news on the upcoming Octavia replacement here on this thread. May I humbly suggest that we all start sending some proposals and wish- lists to Skoda?

Well, that was an essay, wasn't it? Never written one of those after my college days!

Last edited by Yeldo : 13th April 2009 at 12:46.
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Old 13th April 2009, 12:52   #45
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Careful when bashing the Qualis. You will not find a single individual who is less than extremely satisfied with that vehicle. Toyota spares are very reasonably priced too.

This is the first time I've heard a high revving engine is a bad thing. I suppose dieselheads do think that way.

You can bash Honda and Toyota for having tinny bodies or high seating capacities or extreme reliability all you want. European character - drives half a KM, explodes in a cloud of smoke. When the transmission fails (due to a design flaw, nonetheless) on your Skoda or when you give something the slightest of nudges and end up breaking your Xenons, you'll wish you had a el-cheapo Jap car which didn't have headlights that cost more than half a lakh, without the bulb. All that money you saved pumping in diesel... all down the drain. Accord V6s are 800-1000/- per service, as per a user's long term experience posted today. Your Laura with less than half the power and half the legroom costs 10x the money to maintain. And demands synthetic oil priced like liquid gold. For 109PS of pure Pumpe Duse racket. I'll pump in tasty, yummy fuel down the throat of my car with that money and enjoy the experience, thank you.

Tell me you get extreme resale values for any petrol German supercar you mention? What's the resale on one of those high VFM vRS eh? Bad resale is true for any petrol car in India, except for maybe Maruti. Except the SX4. Okay, maybe not Maruti either. Oh hey, whaddaya know, a 10 year old Honda City has 3L resale. The diesel you enjoy for less money is paid for from my pocket. I don't mind though.

Last edited by ImmortalZ : 13th April 2009 at 13:04.
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