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Old 27th January 2010, 19:11   #16
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I leave it to you mate! I see no point in discussing on this topic and signing off this thread
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Old 27th January 2010, 21:43   #17
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Originally Posted by rpmx1000 View Post
It's not a wish list personally at least.Please don't doubt the intentions of every poster or post here. The purpose of a forum is to discuss topics of interest.I think it would make sense for Honda to bring it in here. Please let the moderators decide which threads need to be given what treatment, and please try not to take posts personally.

There are cars in India in this bracket. This thing could undercut the 1.1 and 1.0 litre cars running on our roads, many of which are actually kei-cars in Japan.

Now thinking aloud,I don't seem to understand why they would not. The market is obvious.This if never before is small car-time for the world. India is arguably the world's most competitive small car market.The point in having good sales in a competitive market is a very good product.
Start with a 660cc engined car imported in CKD initially and then a plant set up.It would not be difficult for Honda. Since I did'nt get a convincing answer,let me attempt to answer it for myself.It's probably an issue they have with their image. Before I chanced across the mention of this car, I really did not know Honda made Kei cars in Japan!
Couldn't agree more. Honda should have given this car a very close look for India. IMO what might have gone against this car is that Honda wants to retain its premium brand equity in India, which might have taken a beating if they tried to sell a cheap (inexpensive if you don't like that) car.

However I do agree that Honda quality is ages ahead of Suzuki and Hyundai in India and across the world. There is no contest here. The latter two might know the Indian markets better, but that does not take away anything from Honda. I would definitely have gone for a Honda instead of Hyundai if I could afford one!
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Old 27th January 2010, 22:09   #18
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Hmm. What I understood from the points above -

1> Honda cars are better engineered than Suzuki cars. Period.
2> Honda should really think about "Life" for India.

Points or rather I would term them hurdles to bring it in India IMO -

1> What will be the price point to show the engineering supremacy where the margin is negligible. ( forget about CKD )
2> If they are going to price it along with competition , they'll loose out on brand value as the common perception behind their greater MSRP is supposed to be their engineering which they are taking from us for all their cars.

So, you see , it's a both sided knife which Honda will put themselves in where if they price it higher it's going to be a flop and if they price it as VFM , either they have to accept that this car doesn't have engineering edge over competitors or their current models are overpriced. Full Stop.
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Old 27th January 2010, 22:12   #19
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Originally Posted by rpmx1000 View Post
1) I'm sure Honda kei-cars rock, and would make a lot of sense in India. It is supposedly a best-seller in the land of the Rising sun.
The best seller in Rising sun is Wagon R or Daihatsu Move.
If Honda Kei cars rock, Suzuki and Daihatsu Kei cars rock above them. Suzuki was market leader for many years and still supplies cars to others under badge engineering. Daihatsu has Move that is fantastic by those standards. Move has the highest wheelbase of the Kei cars IIRC.

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Originally Posted by rpmx1000 View Post
2) Not really a bad thing if they have a Honda, right - not for the brand value but for the engineering which they put into their cars.

3) You already have dodos like the i10 at Swift prices for Indian customers with a lot of money to donate to car manufacturers.
2) Can you share more details with us ? And which brands are not giving engineering ? In what matter ?

3) Agree with you here. I10 is highly over-rated.


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Originally Posted by SunilM View Post
However I do agree that Honda quality is ages ahead of Suzuki and Hyundai in India and across the world. There is no contest here. The latter two might know the Indian markets better, but that does not take away anything from Honda. I would definitely have gone for a Honda instead of Hyundai if I could afford one!
In which areas ? Plastic quality ? And have you looked at cost of ownership ?
Honda has the best engines but not the best overall packages. Also they are more expensive to maintain than the other two brands you have mentioned.
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Old 27th January 2010, 22:52   #20
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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
^Fanboy alert.

It wont sell its ugly and Honda wont make a diesel.

Only ugly diesel cars sell in India. Ugly petrol cars wont sell.
Ugly petrol cars don't sell in India? well, what do you call Santro, i10, Wagon R, Verna and 2nd and 3rd versions of Honda City. By the way, 3 out of 5 ugly cars listed above are from Hyundai.
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Old 28th January 2010, 12:10   #21
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post

2) Can you share more details with us ? And which brands are not giving engineering ? In what matter ?
I never said that any brand is not giving engineering. The point is there are so many Maruti fan-ism just because of irrationality.Please tell me one Maruti product that sells the most just because of its features.
Swift? But just check the interiors on the Swift.Most people think of the engine and happily forget it. The Indica Petrol was by feature easily comparable, for day to day use , at a good price too! but the people went ahead and bought Swift. Today you say Honda does not have low cost of ownership based on Indian experience with the Civic and the City. While the Jazz is something Sid can talk about( hope he does!) , we are left with notions of cost of ownership.

Today the secrets of low-cost product design are out. The Figo is about to launch. Now the naysayers will say the Petrol has only 70 bhp. But then the Swift never had the best bhp ratings. But I say this product will succeed.So when a product succeeds it is always not the best product but the best combination of marketing , timing of launch , getting the advertising and positioning and pricing really right, building up the image correctly , and so and so forth. If Ford can do it, Honda can. Localisation is key of course.They have to work on that. (Maybe they don't want to?)


Take the price aside, Honda products are excellent. Just their premium attitude takes them to some extent but not all the way. Maybe they do not
want to dominate the market like MUL does.Which is where I have a problem. I may not even buy this kei-car. But I can say confidently a lot of Indians would. Do you know how many Fabias sell in the market simply because Indians buy thinking (Wow, Skoda at below ten lakhs!). Of course
the Honda Jazz has not succeeded but there is a point, and a weakness which the marketing campaign-guy exploits.

To be as frank as possible with you, what motivated me to put up this thread is - ok , this product looks right for India , then why aren't Honda thinking about this. Now to the probabilities.
Ok , they may have thought and dismissed it, and then decided to do a "made in India, made for India" or rather "making in India, making for India" with their concept.The problem is their small car will take so much time coming that Maruti will by then dominate so much that it will become another Hero Honda-like company - they can do whatever they want and still sell what they make. This is where Tata for example is different. They try to challenge themselves constantly. Now the Manza is wonderful to drive and maintain but is disparaged for baseless reasons. Maruti just does not put enough work into the products. We know now much engineering was done on the DZire. The Suzuki's engineering guy would have had a few sleepless nights since he anticipated the Dakota-like behaviour on full load, but he would have been silenced by the sales numbers.So for MUL so long as the cars sell, nobody needs to do anything about the deficiency as it makes the Dzire looks like an aeroplane. Cool!

Quote:
3) Agree with you here. I10 is highly over-rated.
Glad to know we think alike in this aspect.

Quote:
In which areas ? Plastic quality ? And have you looked at cost of ownership ?
Honda has the best engines but not the best overall packages. Also they are more expensive to maintain than the other two brands you have mentioned.
Their engines are as reliable as Toyotas , and they always have been great to with excellent performance and without breaking down. Just ask the many americans who buy Civics and Fits (and even the ugly looking Elements!).Atleast for an American, one of the factors is cost of ownership.
There is overall package for you.Now read on.

They have the American market because they sell inexpensively and cost of ownership is low for the Americans.
They sell in the Jap Kei-car market because they can make good and low cost(relatively).(Ugly is a very relative term, thus irrelevant to the discussion). Now India is a market which comes somewhere in between.That's where I see a market for cars like these.

Maruti and Tata have made it to the ULC (ultra low cost) market. The difference we will see from Automotive giants like Toyota and Honda is a hopefully better overall experience thanks to their extensive experience in the market and bringing successful products in the world market.

For the customer (we are them and we represent their voice in many ways)
it is always the more, the merrier.So long as we get the right products at the right prices,we win.

Last edited by rpmx1000 : 28th January 2010 at 12:12. Reason: Readability
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Old 28th January 2010, 12:49   #22
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Honda will not bring any VFM small car to India because that goes against their product and brand positioning in India.

In rest of the world Honda is a VFM brand or in other words Honda is to rest of the world what Maruti Suzuki and Tata is here in India.

Whereas in India Honda ( HSCIL) has positioned themselves to be "premium product" so they price themselves almost double of what they would have otherwise. Compare product pricing in India vs price of same product outside , Most fanboys blame Indian tax structure but they forget that how come Kia Atos ( Hyundai Santro) and Swift do not have that outrageous price differential ( well no one prescribed Honda to import components and not develop vendor base in a country known for cheap component suppliers).

Keeping management strategy buzzword like " premium pricing" apart in simple words Honda , Sony , Skoda are some of the companies which have mastered the art of fleecing Indian Consumers ( Premium pricing).
Bluff of Sony is over and sliding market share in CE makes it evident.

We still don't know who is next ( may be Honda only if some other company can do what Samsung did to Sony).

Off Topic: About relaibility of premium products from Honda , If you do not do institutional sales ( read taxi market) and overprice such that urban suave people buy and drive gingerly on potholes and service regularly any product can claim reliability.

EDIT : Honda doing well in India and lot of NRIs being in USA are not entirely distinct they had certain brand image based on bragging rights of NRI cousins and returning Desis who are in mid income group in USA but fall in high income bracket in India.

Last edited by amitk26 : 28th January 2010 at 12:55.
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Old 28th January 2010, 13:03   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpmx1000 View Post
Maybe they do not want to dominate the market like MUL does.
That has to be taken with a fistful of salt! I would not credit any company with such altruism, my friend!
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Old 28th January 2010, 14:03   #24
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That has to be taken with a fistful of salt! I would not credit any company with such altruism, my friend!
he he.Please be warned in future that my posts always carry a lot of black humour.Glad you could catch it.
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Old 28th January 2010, 17:36   #25
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That's one weird looking boxycar. I'm sure we don't need more of such in the market with 'premium' pricing, just for the H.
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Old 2nd February 2010, 12:38   #26
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Looking at the discussion , it seems to be headed the Honda Vs the Rest of Car Manufacturers way.

All I have to say to this is calling a car Ugly is not very nice ,
because there may be many members here who own one the 'ugly' cars and they may love it more than the rest of the so called pundits here.

Also discussing a car which sells like crazy somewhere , does not mean it is going to sell like crazy in India.

I think the Topic has been overshadowed with personal opinions of the 'ugly' kind which does not do justice to all the members of the community.
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Old 2nd February 2010, 18:28   #27
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Why Honda is not bringing some of their Kei cars to India? Except for a brief period when NHC was launched, Honda is unable to control their costs in India. NHC when launched was below 6lacs ex showroom for base version. Look at the prices that they have launched AHNC and Jazz. I don't think unless they get it right with their costs, they is no point in bringing Kei cars at 6 lacs OTR prices.

I too agree that i10 is over rated. i10 sportz costs 5 lakhs OTR in Hyderabad. I am baffled how people are giving their hard earned money for such a small call with small tires.
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Old 2nd February 2010, 23:09   #28
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[quote=amitk26;1703430]We still don't know who is next ( may be Honda only if some other company can do what Samsung did to Sony).

Hyundai is already doing to Honda what Samsung did to Sony. Hyundai is 4th or 5th largest car maker in the world, way ahead of Honda.

Rach, you are right. It beats me what people see in i10. Santro costs less, is bigger,better, faster, roomier and looks much much better than i10. Most people often have this misplaced notion that newer is always better.
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