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Old 1st February 2010, 11:41   #1
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Default Indian Feasibility study by Chery Cars (China)

Details coming in less than an hour.

ciao.
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Last edited by sidindica : 1st February 2010 at 11:55.
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Old 1st February 2010, 12:05   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sidindica View Post
Details coming in less than an hour.ciao.
Chery Automobiles coming to India???
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Old 1st February 2010, 12:15   #3
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cherry cars coming here for testing purposes?
or maybe they are launching one initial model, to test the waters!
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Old 1st February 2010, 12:31   #4
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so we will have all sorts of funny Chinese contraptions running on the roads -- as if the road side Chineze food stalls weren't enuf.
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Old 1st February 2010, 12:31   #5
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Isn't Chery a Chinese brand ? Maybe they will be launching in India soon look-alikes of all the high end cars at maybe prices of 5L upwards. Just guessing since everyone seems to be guessing. I wonder who is collaborating with them or are they coming here on their own ?
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Old 1st February 2010, 12:45   #6
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I remember reading a few years ago (i think around 2007) that Chery was in talks with ICML, the makers of Sonalika tractors and Rhino MUV, to enter the indian market. I dont think anything came out of that
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Old 1st February 2010, 13:27   #7
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IMPORTANT-Read the disclaimer carefully before making any further replies.

Disclaimer:
  • the agency that conducted the survey wanted to remain anonymous. So kindly do not ask me which one. It is NOT the same which conducted the earlier study for Peugeot/Citroen in 2008.
  • Very Very few invitees, so the company also wanted to keep the location secret. Do not again ask me where I went.
  • No pictures, of course due to security reasons. Me and my co-person's phone was not allowed inside. I had to submit it outside and turn it off.
  • Whatever information I could gather I will put here at one go. Please DO NOT ask any questions or request any additional info which deviates from the information that I will post here.
If you recall this thread

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ots-chery.html (Spyshots: Chery)

BHPian coolbareilly's friend gave a scoop here where he posted the first spyshots of 3 models of Chery undergoing testing in NCR region.

Well, as many of you have guessed correctly, Chery cars, China is planning to launch its range of cars and CUVs here.

It all happened yesterday midnight when I just finished watching an awards function hosted by Fahid Kapoor that I got a call from a person that today morning at 7:30 AM he will come and pick me up for a secret feasibility study that an agency is conducting for chery cars, China. I was of course, excited to see that how good these "cars" are really in person. At the same time, I was skeptical about the survey and which cars they displayed etc.

I was ready today morning at the said time and then he comes and picks me up in his splendor and we go. Fearing east Delhi traffic jam, of course we go on this bike. We were asked to reach this venue, a good 60 kms away, latest by 8:45 am to start the questionnaire (cannot scan and post it since I do not have) by 9 AM sharp.

We reach on time, and then our proper talaashi is made by the security guard, we were asked to hand over any mobile/camera/ other electronic gadget that we were carrying and only after 5 minutes of harrowing talaashi we were let in.

9 AM.

It is inside a huge tent, and with a makeshift LCD projector enabled room, we get the briefing about the Indian automobile industry, small car market in particular etc. I was relieved when the agent told me that the survey would only last about an hour.

As mentioned, Chery plans to initially launch 3 cars, one in the entry level A plus segment, one in the entry level B segment, and another in the entry CUV/entry SUV segment, a-la the Scorpio.

These 3 cars appeared to be the same that was scooped in the aforementioned thread (colors and taping of the badges) and some of the competitors were also on display, with the same idiosyncrasy of badge taped on, as if they think I am a big dumbo.

Cherry QQ

Of course, this was the first car that I had a look. I was so pissed off when I saw hoe uncanningly it resembles the old Daewoo Matiz. In fact,as I was a former Matiz owner, the doors looked perfectly interchangeable with each other. Blatent copy. The front end looked pathetic like a fishmouth frog as if it wanted to liplock me with a kiss or wanted to suck me in. the rear was pretty but again many matiz cues can be seen here. I even dared to ask the representative of the company and he denied my allegation by nodding his face left and right.

The build quality of course was even flimsy than a nano (a reason why it failed the euro NCAP crash test and almost scored zero stars) and inside, the plastics were as bad as they can get. Imagine this:
  • Test car that clocked about 1500 km had glove box that would not lock in place and fall off after I opened and closed it a bit harshly.
  • co passenger seat belt broke off.
  • the door pads were so flimsily built that if they are dry cleaned, it seems that the materials can tear apart in the first-second use only.
  • tilt steering lever comes apart when I try to adjust it.
I kinda liked the seating position, identical to my old matiz, low and good view of the road ahead, but seat is not height adjustable. The cushioning is decent but lower back support is awful.

Legroom is surprisingly decent, both front and rear and 4 5.5 feet adults can sit comfortably in it. If only the back seat was better, let down by hard cushioning and flat squab shape.

Of course they did not start the motor, but they are planning to equip this car with a 0.8L 3 cylinder DOHC (yes, DOHC) motor with 51 bhp@6000 rpm and about 70 NM torque@3500 rpm. Identical figures to the matiz? Yes, even I was surprised but when I had a look at the motor it was NOT wearing any resemblance to the matiz motor, barring the air intake, as show in a pic. It was their own design, and it seemed a tight fit at the engine bay.

Tyre size was 145/70 on 13".

Other cars that were parked along with it were:
  • alto
  • spark
  • santro
  • nano
They are planning to price it with, can you believe it-2,20,000-2,75,000 in a number of varients-NON AC, AC+ PS and a decently loaded one. No ABS/airbags are planned.

Mu suggestion to Chery: Kindly give crash protective suits to the potential would be buyers so that our lives are not put into risk.

(pics taken from net to show as a representation)
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Last edited by sidindica : 1st February 2010 at 13:37.
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Old 1st February 2010, 13:50   #8
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CHERY J-ONE

In contrast to the hideous QQ, this was the car that showed a lot of promise. To be positioned above the QQ, it is Chery's newly developed "global car".

First look at it reminded me of a Fiat Panda, but thankfully this car doesn't appear to be copied from any other car, though some profile resembles me of some Jap tall boys also.

Targeted at urban youth (as tom tomed), it will be powered by a DOHC 1.1/1.2 motor with 60 ps/75 ps respectively (estimated). Overseas it is available with a 1.3 motor but if it ever comes here, to avail the excise benefits, it will be downsized. exterior paint/fit and finish was decent, if not good and could have been better. Do not expect I10/ritz levels of perfection here.

The interior doesn't break any ground but is pretty refreshing design, especially the silver dominated (waterfall) centre console. Plastics are better here, but more room for improvement is needed. Thankfully on this car clocked about the same 1500 odd kms, nothing seemed to break apart, though the switchgear was tacky and flimsy.

Seat comfort is nothing to write home about and there is less rear legroom than even an I10, though better then the A-star. The cushioning was good at front, hard at the back an the rear squab was actually better than the QQ. Front seats had surprising good under thigh support though.

Nothing else can be added here, barring the asking price-about 3,25,000-3,75,000, even undercutting the beat. Now only if the safety aspect was better, as the body felt pretty flimsy. They declined to comment on crash test scores though. ABS and airbags were there on that copper orange car. Variants planned could be TS, TE and TX, 3 in all.

Other cars displayed were:
  • Hyundai i10
  • Chevrolet Beat
  • Maruti Ritz
  • swift.
I expected the vista, but was not there. The J1 shows a promise, but only if I got a chance to drive it I can comment more.

Based on my impressions, I will give it a 6/10.

(pics from net for illustration purposes)
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Old 1st February 2010, 14:15   #9
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I'm certainly NOT convinced. See, Chinese cars (and other products from the country) enjoy a huge cost advantage. In fact, one of the main motivations behind buying a Chinese designed product is the price.

Buttttttttttttttttttttt in India, the situation is very different. For one, our labour rates are competitive. More importantly, Maruti / Tata / Hyundai enjoy an installed cost structure that is VERY hard to beat. Chery cars will not be able to compete on cost with Maruti, Tata and Hyundai. I don't see a big difference in pricing at all. If they have to compete, it will be on sheer product. And that's where, unfortunately, I expect Chery to fall flat on its face.

I'm not writing Chery or any other Chinese car maker off completely (would be foolish to do so). However, they aren't "there" yet. Note that they will be sometime in the future. As the saying goes:

In the 60's, everyone said Japanese cars are too cheap, flimsy, lack depth in engineering, are a copy of other cars and will never cut it.

In the 80's, everyone said Korean cars are too cheap, flimsy, lack depth in engineering, are a copy of other cars and will never cut it.

In the 2000's, everyone said Chinese cars are too cheap, flimsy, lack depth in engineering, are a copy of other cars and will never cut it.

See a pattern?

Last edited by GTO : 1st February 2010 at 14:17.
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Old 1st February 2010, 14:17   #10
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Cherry Tiggo

As by the time I was going to see the tiggo, it was 10:15 AM, so, a good daylight view was enough to make m first impressions. It is about the size of 2003-2005 CR-V, and looks decent, if not good.

It looks like a proper SUV and not like a CUV that pretends to be an SUV. The version displayed was powered with a 2.0L gasoline motor with a claimed 133 ps. (1.6 and 2.4 motors are also available, but sadly, no diesel). Similar to the CR-V, it has a permanent AWD with varying levels of torque distribution. Only a 5 seater version is available.

Inside things get better, but only just. While the interior on the pic posted below looks decent, the actual is much worse with flimsy plastics and many misaligned panels, 10 times even worse than a tata Safari, leave alone the mahindra twins of xylo and scorpio. Typical Indian wear and tear habits will scare the hell out of these plastics and only god knows what to do later.

Leather seats were standard on the model displayed but comfort was nowhere as good as scorpios, leave alone the xylo and safari. Firm cushioning at front and even harsher at the rear meant that people can get tossed around, made worse by body-on-frame construction.

The SUV did not have leaf springs but what appeared to be like some independent coil spring suspension. Tyres were 16" with 235 width.

ABS, side and curtain airbags along with dual front airbags were standard on that car, so was BAS with EBD and (surprisingly), ESP. Traction control was also standard (on 2.4) but the officials told that in 1.6 and 2.0 it is an optional package.

Now comes the most important part-PRICE.
Claimed price band was in the region of 6.5-7.0 lakh.

Other competing vehicles on display were
  • scorpio
  • Xylo
  • Safari
  • tavera
Innova and sumo were not there.

I would rate this, based on my initial impressions, only 4.5 /10.

After I saw the vehicles and the survey was over, less of filling of questionnaire and more of verbal talk, thankfully, it was about 11:30 AM.

The Chinese unfortunately were not available for comment, but the agency asked for my feedback and we told them that in our country, safety is of prime importance and if most of your vehicles that have failed safety tests are sold here, it would be a potential disaster for us and also for them as their so called reputation will go downhill.

Of course, they may be scouting for an Indian partner but declined to give comments on the same.
Launch time? Declined to give it but they were talking about setting an CKD assembly plant somewhere in either north or west of our country.

Overall while the survey was a good experience for me and my co-person, the cars were not at all that impressive. Even at this price band, we Indians are smart enough to go for a better optioned competitor's product, even if it is an Indian brand, as the trust and confidence that we have on them is more than enough to offset the potential "more than Chinese" price.

If Chery is serious about India, it has to work had, extra hard to clear the negative perception of Chinese products in the minds of Indian consumers and have to ensure significant re-engineering is done to get to the levels of quality, durability and reliability that we expect in this highly competitive market. Or else, its better for them not to enter.

Let us see how things will proceed in months to come and how will the market react to it.
(pics of tiggo from internet for illustration purposes).

Thanks to you, my co person, for making me a part of this survey. Will treat you by today evening.
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Indian Feasibility study by Chery Cars (China)-chery_tiggo.jpg  

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Last edited by sidindica : 1st February 2010 at 14:24.
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Old 1st February 2010, 14:25   #11
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And I sincerely wish before 2020, the world says,
Indian cars are too cheap, flimsy, lack depth in engineering, are a copy of other designs and will never cut it
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Old 1st February 2010, 14:37   #12
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Wow, the 2nd Tiggo has a map of the Sepang F1 track on the spare tyre cover. Used as a marshall car maybe?!
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Old 1st February 2010, 14:42   #13
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I feel they don't enter India for heaven sake.
I feel even an M800 would have performed well than QQ in euro test.
If the part's itself not withholding and how come their electronic items would perform.I feel they might posses' high fire accident risk.

@aarge:we are already in that name with TATA, so by 2020 we would be in range of Toyota or Honda what they are now due to JLR.

Last edited by Sudan_NFS : 1st February 2010 at 14:45.
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Old 1st February 2010, 14:44   #14
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My guess is that they would go the Rio way and partner with a local player. Any idea if they are in talks with someone here?
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Old 1st February 2010, 15:03   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
In the 60's, everyone said Japanese cars are too cheap, flimsy, lack depth in engineering, are a copy of other cars and will never cut it.

In the 80's, everyone said Korean cars are too cheap, flimsy, lack depth in engineering, are a copy of other cars and will never cut it.

In the 2000's, everyone said Chinese cars are too cheap, flimsy, lack depth in engineering, are a copy of other cars and will never cut it.

See a pattern?
One differing point -the japs and koreans had panels and fittings although cheap and flimsy fitted together well.

Not so apparent on these Chinese carss
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