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Old 9th February 2010, 17:26   #46
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Originally Posted by bblost View Post
In my opinion 8 Litres or half a bucket is enough to clean a car.
...

The earth we live on is slowly dying. Sorry the earth will survive but can our future generations survive our wasteful habits.
I am not an agent of any car duster company , but as I said before, using a duster will save lot of water.

Something that I have seen in Bangalore - households pour 2-3 buckets of water everyday morning in front of their houses. This is a routine that happens everyday. Perhaps to make their part of the road clean while all the dust settles in front of the neighbour's gates.
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Old 9th February 2010, 17:31   #47
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frankly speaking, the fines (penalty amount) in India are ridiculous. It is just 1000 bucks. In Hyderabad, it is just 250 bucks for jumping a red light. Can you imagine? It is even cheaper than the cheapest chinese products.

Okay, Mr. Police Chief - here is my 1000 bucks, i am gonna wash my car on the street.
I agree fines have to inflict pain, not like mosquito bites. But I think Rs.1000 for washing is quite high already, compared to other crimes that kill people like over speeding, jumping red light etc.

Actually we need a points system like in Singapore where you accumulate 24 (or so) points in a year, you lose driving license for a while, along with hefty fines. Jumping red light, IIRC, is 12 points plus fine. So 50% of your annual credit is gone!
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Old 9th February 2010, 17:34   #48
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households pour 2-3 buckets of water everyday morning in front of their houses. This is a routine that happens everyday. Perhaps to make their part of the road clean while all the dust settles in front of the neighbour's gates.
2-3 buckets? Where I live it is a routine to use host to wash entire front yard and part of road frontage, with water often for 20-30 minutes.
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Old 9th February 2010, 17:37   #49
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What about 'waterless car wash'? (spray-wait-wipe)

no water wastage there + can detailing a car on a roadside attract fine too?
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Old 9th February 2010, 19:30   #50
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Traxter, first of all I did not appreciate your tone or your questioning my education. Saying no personal offence meant as an afterthought doesn't make it acceptable to post such nonsense either.

Now let me ask you, who is allowed to decide how much water is appropriate for a wash? You're always going to be on a slippery slope if you start making claims like 10 buckets of water is enough to wash a car. Is eleven too much then? Or is nine too less? It doesn't stop at cars either. You cannot tell someone that he's using too much water. If I want a garden in my house, that'll take a lot of water. Showering for an extra few minutes results in a huge amount of water going down the drain. That doesn't mean its wrong.

If the government felt too much water was being used, the water prices would have been reorganized. The rich will pay more for their water while the poor will be insulated from the blow. Even under subsidized pricing, the government will monitor water usage on a large scale.

And most of all, washing the car on the street doesn't actually change the amount of water you use. The idea here was to curb littering. And that's an excuse that simply doesn't work because no matter where you wash the car, the mud and grime will end up in the same place: The drain. Its a stupid scheme to make some quick bucks off some unsuspecting folks.
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Old 9th February 2010, 19:44   #51
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Originally Posted by sohail99 View Post
What about 'waterless car wash'? (spray-wait-wipe)

no water wastage there + can detailing a car on a roadside attract fine too?
You mean, something similar to dry cleaning?
Waterless car wash - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Have you used it? How effective? Is it polluting to the environment?
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Old 9th February 2010, 19:49   #52
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http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...-car-wash.html (Dry Washing cars / Waterless car-wash)

Thread on the topic of waterless wash
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Old 9th February 2010, 19:57   #53
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Wow, i thought this will be a dead thread! But I guess we are all environment conscious folks. Thats a good thing. I use exactly 1 bucket to wash my car. In my apartment they finally banned water hose for washing cars. That is a good concept. Lets start from the small things before getting to the big picture. So i can proudly say that i am doing my part in saving water! Moreover if you want to save water, keep a rule like car washing allowed only 2-3 days a week. You will be amazed to see how much water gets saved. Hey, wait a minute, this thread is about littering and not water saving! In a nutshell, if you ask me, i think washing cars on the roadside does not change the amount of water we use (i agree with Mclaren Rulez on this one). In fact the water flow will clear off small specks of dirt on the ground around the car thereby making it marginally cleaner!
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Old 9th February 2010, 20:03   #54
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First, they have to collect huge fines from those who dig up the newly laid roads and do not care to repair them to the original level. When it rains, it destroys the rest of the road too creating huge potholes.

These type of rules do form to make some easy money.
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Old 9th February 2010, 21:15   #55
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Now let me ask you, who is allowed to decide how much water is appropriate for a wash?
Such norms, in law abiding countries are set by town council or the state. For instance in many OZ towns you cannot have lawns, cannot water them and do various other things during water shortage. Penalties are extreme. Same goes for US where polluting ground water is a crime that puts you behind bars for years. Even if u have a stream in your estate that is entirely inside, there are rules on how you can use it. If it is a shared resource, rules are even stricter.

You cannot say I am paying for it and get away. If Ambani buys up all the water that Mumbai supplies and let you die of thirst will you not protest? We are talking about nationally scarce resource. We are not living like savages, we are living in a society where our rights are constrained by others' rights too. Problem is our country has many that do not respect any law or norm.

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If the government felt too much water was being used, the water prices would have been reorganized.
Let us try to be responsible instead of blaming govt. all the time. If the govt. prices everything as per market, water should be several rupees a litre and there will be protest. Charging different prices to different people depending on income creates admin problems, corruption and leakage of revenue. If everyone wastes water like you said, there will not be any water to drink. There will be riots, social chaos, it is already happening in some parts you want that everywhere?

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And most of all, washing the car on the street doesn't actually change the amount of water you use.
There were two different points being discussed, one about washing outside and another about the quantity used. They got mixed up. Washing with hose, to repeat, is wrong, inside or outside.

When you wash inside it goes into sewage system that is supposed to be refined, cleaned before pumping into sea or at least it should.. It may not happen in India because of funds shortage or whatever. When you wash in street it goes to ground water or to neighbours house or wherever the slope takes it along with oils soaps and various chemicals that we use.

Anyway, I give up. Some people just cannot be changed voluntarily. That's precisely why there are strict laws. If any govt. proposes stringent punishment for wasting water and polluting and put people wasting water in jail, I would welcome that.

Last edited by Traxter : 9th February 2010 at 21:23.
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Old 9th February 2010, 21:33   #56
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Originally Posted by Traxter View Post
Such norms, in law abiding countries are set by town council or the state. For instance in many OZ towns you cannot have lawns, cannot water them and do various other things during water shortage. Penalties are extreme. Same goes for US where polluting ground water is a crime that puts you behind bars for years. You cannot say I am paying for it and get away. We are talking about nationally scarce resource. We are not living like savages, we are living in a society where our rights are constrained by others' rights too. Problem is our country has many that do not respect any law or norm.
Key point in bold. During normal times, what's the law? The law in India is fine. Only if you are seen wasting water like leaving a tap open or something, the authorities have the power. If you use water to wash your car, it is perfectly legal even if you use a hose. I suppose during a drought, we will also be subject to those restrictions. And that's perfectly acceptable

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Originally Posted by Traxter View Post
When you wash inside it goes into sewage system that is supposed to be refined, cleaned before pumping into sea or at least it should.. It may not happen in India because of funds shortage or whatever. When you wash in street it goes to ground water or to neighbours house or wherever the slope takes it along with oils soaps and various chemicals that we use.
That makes sense. I admit I did not think of the soap contaminating ground water. But the official reason given is littering. Very different from polluting the ground water. And in any case, bio degradable non polluting shampoos for cars are available. Claiming that you should not wash cars on the street is still not justified. Banning polluting shampoos or something along those lines would be a more appropriate course of action if the government was worried about this issue.

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Anyway, I give up. Some people just cannot be changed voluntarily. That's precisely why there are strict laws. If any govt. proposes stringent punishment for wasting water and polluting and put people wasting water in jail, I would welcome that.
Ooh! Tough rhetoric. But there's a difference between wasting water and using it. Tell me how much water you use daily. I bet I can find someone who will be using less. And if his worldview was similar to yours, he'll accuse you of wasting water too. And there'll be someone else who'll be using even less who'll call both of you water wasters. So does that mean you deserve to be punished and jailed? That's why its called a slippery slope argument.
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Old 9th February 2010, 21:37   #57
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Water restrictions in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Read this Mr. McLaren. There is also a section on car washing.

How do they police it? May be they dont have to because people there are responsible and abide by it. May be they dont have too many clever people that use clever arguments to get away. May be they dont have people that think by throwing money they can do anything.

OZ has droughts and water shortage once in a while. We have it perpetually on national basis. Our govt. may not have the time or sense to make such rules, we have to abide by them based on commonsense and a sense of responsibility towards our own country. Where in doubt, err on side of caution.

Last edited by Traxter : 9th February 2010 at 21:50.
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Old 9th February 2010, 21:54   #58
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Water restrictions in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Read this Mr. McLaren. There is also a section on car washing.
The first line clearly says that the measures are "in response to chronic shortages resulting from drought." I've already told you this is not about what to do when we have a drought.

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OZ has droughts and water shortage once in a while. We have it perpetually on national basis.
No we don't. We are surprisingly blessed in terms of water resources with so many rivers and rain. That's precisely why we don't have such drastic restrictions.

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May be they dont have to because people there are responsible and abide by it. May be they dont have too many clever people that use clever arguments to get away. May be they dont have people that think by throwing money they can do anything.
Maybe you've realized that I'm making sense. Maybe you're unable to refute the logic and have to resort to snide references about clever people like me. Maybe you finally understood the reason why your argument is a slippery slope argument.

Oh and do keep up the pleasant tone. Its most enjoyable interacting with you
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Old 9th February 2010, 21:57   #59
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And there'll be someone else who'll be using even less who'll call both of you water wasters. So does that mean you deserve to be punished and jailed? That's why its called a slippery slope argument.
I am talking about rules framed by govt. which in our country is democratically elected. Hopefully they will fix limits that are sensible and reasonable.

If not we protest.

But we abide by them. Where they do not fix such limits, because they are busy doing something else, we just do what commonsense tells us. Slippery slope can cut both ways - if to you hosing for 10 min is okay and for Ambani hosing all his cars and pavement and everything else for 1 hr per day is ok, Shah Rukh khan wants to change his pool water every 1 hr with Bisleri because he has money...and so on...where does that lead us?

As I said, err on side of caution, use commonsense and think of others. That's all

Last edited by Traxter : 9th February 2010 at 22:04.
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Old 9th February 2010, 21:57   #60
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Its a good move if they don't take bribes while implementing this. We need to have strict rules in all cities to make them cleaner. Our People wont care a bit unless they are fined. Eg. Why would anyone care about throwing garbage in the dust bin? But if there is a strict fine imposed then you can see all of them happily following the rules.
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