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Old 11th February 2010, 18:00   #76
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Could we have the sales figures of the Swift and the Ritz. I have feeling that the Ritz is going to comeback with a vengeance. All those who were predicting the demise of the Ritz after the K series Swift is launched might have to eat humble pie.
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Old 11th February 2010, 19:16   #77
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Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
Jazz might be expensive at Rs. 8.5 Lacs but the Jazz buyer will the one laughing all the way to the bank after 5 years when he sells it for Rs. 4 Lacs - the Honda reliability, image and resale value coming into the picture once again.

In an Autocar India interview, Honda India CEO had mentioned that Jazz is more expensive to manufacture than the new City - because the Jazz uses better materials and has better finish/shutlines than the City.
Yawn! Why don't they just accept the fact that they have been over optimistic with the Jazz pricing and move on instead of shooting at their own legs giving statements like this.
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Old 11th February 2010, 19:29   #78
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Yawn! Why don't they just accept the fact that they have been over optimistic with the Jazz pricing and move on instead of shooting at their own legs giving statements like this.
I too had the same feeling reading this.
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Old 11th February 2010, 19:37   #79
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Originally Posted by longhorn View Post
Could we have the sales figures of the Swift and the Ritz. I have feeling that the Ritz is going to comeback with a vengeance. All those who were predicting the demise of the Ritz after the K series Swift is launched might have to eat humble pie.
I'm also keen to see the Swift/Ritz figures, if available. I too hope the Ritz does well, as I am strongly biased towards the Ritz. Apart from the ugly rear end of the Ritz, I found the car really good and I strongly advised my brother-in-law to go in for the car and avoid the swift last year.
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Old 11th February 2010, 20:20   #80
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I was praying for Jazz to succeed. It is an well made quality car and if it fails, India's image as a cheap car dumping ground for the world will be re-affirmed. Honda needs to be applauded for at least trying to offer us this car - I can only hope India is ready for it one day. At least Honda did not play a joke like Etios with India in the name of VFM
Praying for people to overpay for a car(jazz). That you think will change the image. Then why don't you be the first one.

Last edited by GTO : 12th February 2010 at 11:44. Reason: Fixing quote
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Old 11th February 2010, 20:33   #81
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Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
Jazz might be expensive at Rs. 8.5 Lacs but the Jazz buyer will the one laughing all the way to the bank after 5 years when he sells it for Rs. 4 Lacs - the Honda reliability, image and resale value coming into the picture once again.

In an Autocar India interview, Honda India CEO had mentioned that Jazz is more expensive to manufacture than the new City - because the Jazz uses better materials and has better finish/shutlines than the City.
I do not agree. Considering that honda will come out with competetively priced small car by that time and also new cars from other brands at that price, Jazz owners may actually lose.
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Old 11th February 2010, 20:59   #82
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Originally Posted by airbender View Post
I was praying for Jazz to succeed. It is an well made quality car and if it fails, India's image as a cheap car dumping ground for the world will be re-affirmed. Honda needs to be applauded for at least trying to offer us this car - I can only hope India is ready for it one day. At least Honda did not play a joke like Etios with India in the name of VFM

Praying for people to overpay for a car(jazz). That you think will change the image. Then why don't you be the first one.
Well, Honda did play a joke by stripping the car of all the features offered abroad and pricing it at the same level as the loaded cars elsewhere, and they are duly punished in the market.

I think the junta needs to come out of the mentality that Honda, or for that matter any international brand, is doing us a favour by selling their cars here. India is one of the fastest growing market in the world and any company that wants to operate here, should learn to play by the rules of the land.

Last edited by oss : 11th February 2010 at 21:00.
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Old 11th February 2010, 21:18   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airbender View Post
I was praying for Jazz to succeed. It is an well made quality car and if it fails, India's image as a cheap car dumping ground for the world will be re-affirmed. Honda needs to be applauded for at least trying to offer us this car - I can only hope India is ready for it one day. At least Honda did not play a joke like Etios with India in the name of VFM

Praying for people to overpay for a car(jazz). That you think will change the image. Then why don't you be the first one.
Sorry dude, this is the height of low self esteem. Indians have already shown the for premium hatches as we can see from the sales of the i20. Why on earth should we overpay? Please!

It's Honda that needs to learn, not us. The Old Gen Skoda Superb was nowhere to be seen. Look how Skoda loaded the car and launched the 2009 Superb and it's a hit I understand!

Last edited by kiku007 : 11th February 2010 at 21:20.
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Old 12th February 2010, 04:45   #84
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This thread sure provides us with some much needed laughs.

"Pray for the Jazz to succeed" - Yeah, it needs divine intervention and some snobs to sell the car.

Recover money while selling the car - Great, pass that on to Honda, they'll release it in their next press statement and you might be the lucky winner of a '09 (out of thousands of unsold ones from '09) Honda Jazz.
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Old 12th February 2010, 08:57   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airbender View Post
I was praying for Jazz to succeed. It is an well made quality car and if it fails, India's image as a cheap car dumping ground for the world will be re-affirmed. Honda needs to be applauded for at least trying to offer us this car - I can only hope India is ready for it one day. At least Honda did not play a joke like Etios with India in the name of VFM
Praying for people to overpay for a car(jazz). That you think will change the image. Then why don't you be the first one.[/quote]

Dude, seriously u've got to be joking. The best selling car in that segment is the i20 by miles because we see value in that car. We see no value in a Jazz. And by no means is it a badly made low quality automobile.
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Old 12th February 2010, 09:18   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
Jazz might be expensive at Rs. 8.5 Lacs but the Jazz buyer will the one laughing all the way to the bank after 5 years when he sells it for Rs. 4 Lacs - the Honda reliability, image and resale value coming into the picture once again.
So we're all idiots to spend 6L on an i20 today and get ~2L after 5 years? What kinda distorted logic is that? And I STILL won't be laughing with the Jazz because I've had to fold my ORVM's manually for those five years.

Quote:
In an Autocar India interview, Honda India CEO had mentioned that Jazz is more expensive to manufacture than the new City - because the Jazz uses better materials and has better finish/shutlines than the City.
Interesting, because the design and materials used for the door pads was appaling. God I hate the interior of that thing.
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Old 12th February 2010, 11:08   #87
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Jazz is surely very expensive ... That's why its a flop. I had a look at it very closely & didn't find it very impressive. It costs more than 8 lacs on Road. In 8 lacs i better buy Swift (well proven) & Spark so that i will have Swift for me & Spark for my wife.

Or i will go for Maza Diesel Top end which is VFM & very big car with more facilities than Jazz
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Old 12th February 2010, 11:35   #88
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FIAT can be doing better business with better interiors and a premium branding rather than cringing to the old mileage story with underpowered engines in their cars on a brilliant chassis. It is doing nothing except being anachronistic of all the times.

FIAT- the declassed de facto OEM engine supplier.
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Old 12th February 2010, 11:45   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
Jazz might be expensive at Rs. 8.5 Lacs but the Jazz buyer will the one laughing all the way to the bank after 5 years when he sells it for Rs. 4 Lacs - the Honda reliability, image and resale value coming into the picture once again.

In an Autocar India interview, Honda India CEO had mentioned that Jazz is more expensive to manufacture than the new City - because the Jazz uses better materials and has better finish/shutlines than the City.
Person buying Jazz/ANHC pays 20% extra money upfront for the brand and takes that after 5 years. What is the gain here.
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Old 12th February 2010, 11:57   #90
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Originally Posted by fiat_tarun View Post
I've actually been thinking to myself as to just why the Jazz is so expensive. It qualifies for excise duty benefits, shares parts with the honda city and has minimal equipment. Safety yes but the same is available in most of the lower priced competition.
One word = Profits. Atleast, that's what the original plan was. With the sales being where they are, this objective is far from achieved.

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Bull's eye.
I think the average buyer in India has a higher image of a sedan status-wise than a hatchback....Premium hatchbacks are still struggling for a foothold here as brought out by the charts for Fabia, Jazz etc.
Actually, its completely the opposite. Sales stats over the past 12 months have demonstrated that the Indian buyer increasingly prefers a premium hatchback over an entry level sedan. The i20 is a case in point. Even the Swift diesel Vdi, at an onroad price of 6 lakh rupees, is a pretty expensive hatch. Entry sedans like the Ikon, Indigo CS etc. are being overlooked by the market. The 6 lakh rupee hatch segment has grown / is growing much faster than the 6 lakh rupee sedan segment.

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Originally Posted by Crank View Post
GTO & Vasudeva, thanks for the excellent report.

It was more educating to see the various kinds of responses on this thread, which itself becomes a rich analysis of the rport. That's the strength of Team-BHP.
So true. The rich comments are always a motivator behind the effort that goes into preparing this analysis.

Quote:
It's good that cars like Manza with a VFM price tag (as agreed by most of the crowd), sell well and create records.
What's also good is Tata's coming of age. The Manza is a giant leap ahead of the old Indigo as an overall product. And the Fiat engines will ensure better reliability.

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Punto sales are low because the car does not seem to have a USP.
Actually, the Punto has a USP (ride, handling & Euro build). It's just that this is not the USP that the market wants.

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Originally Posted by kiku007 View Post
The Old Gen Skoda Superb was nowhere to be seen. Look how Skoda loaded the car and launched the 2009 Superb and it's a hit I understand!
Spot on, Kiku! It's a case study in the making. The previous Superb was a sales dud as it looked very similar to the Octavia, was priced higher than even the currently sold Superb and got lost in the crowd (too dull and lacklustre). The new Superb, on the other hand, makes a 30 lakh C Class look irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by ramzsys View Post
FIAT- the declassed de facto OEM engine supplier.
They are surely making more $$$ from supplying engines than cars to the Indian market.
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