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Old 15th February 2010, 21:49   #16
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Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
then the getz crdi should be an even bigger death trap.

I see tons of crashed indica's when i go to my TASC. I guess its a natural consequence of having so many of them.

very true.


Sid: You just saw the cars; can you confirm that all these met with accidents coz it has a peppy engine?

One should be careful driving a Verna CRDi within city if one's new to driving as the launch once the turbo kicks in surprises many.

+ 1 to SamtheLeo.

Last edited by jkdas : 15th February 2010 at 21:50.
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Old 15th February 2010, 21:49   #17
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Give the dog a bad name and hang it, eh?

Before starting to speak, lets inform the uninitiated that I own a Verna CRDI fitted with ABS and rear discs. I've driven 20K kms in just over a year, and done about 5 highway trips in the car. The top speed I've done is 175 kmph, and I almost regularly drive it at speeds above 100.

Does that qualify me to defend the car? Good, lets get it on.

First of all, the Verna comes with a savage turbo, and its true that the surge when you floor it and it goes above 2K rpm is mind blowing. But then, that holds true for most turbocharged cars. I remember driving an Indigo many years ago. The thing just refused to move in traffic until I floored the pedal, and then the turbo came on and I nearly crashed into the car in front! Not that theres a power comparison, but all turbos (atleast in budget sedans) are on/off stuff.

What good is a driver if he cannot identify these traits in his car and use them to their advantage? The same surge that you think is killer, is a blessing when you're on the highway and a slow moving truck needs to be passed before the gap closes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidindica View Post
First, I hear that the car has below average brakes, then Hyundai deletes the rear discs from SX models and equips with skinny tyres.[*]No airbags, not even as an option, while the cheaper I20 has 6 of them.[/list]Why this stepmotherly treatment in a high powered diesel sedan from Hyundai with absolute lack of safety features?

I want to ask Verna diesel owners that have they experianced any braking problem like wheels getting locked, long braking distances, uncontrollable chassis at high speeds etc?
Please dont quote what you hear. Agreed, the brakes are not Evo quality, but they're adequate to haul the car at speed. IF it really had inadequate brakes, do you really think the car would have made it to so many European countries (where average speeds are much higher than India) and survived without a stinker?

As for wheels getting locked, that can happen at any speed, in any car without ABS.

As for the airbags, this is something I agree with. More safety is never bad, and for the money, the car definitely deserves Airbags.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
The turbo kicks in so damn fast, that it is actually impossible to control the car during that period, but after it spools and running is fine, the brakes are not adequate.
Exactly how many kms have you driven said Verna? If the car was indeed so "impossible to control" and "brakes are not adequate", I'm sure I (and aneesh, and pras.oct, and countless other tbhpians) would have been dead by now.

Not trying to ridicule you. But please realize that a car should not be commented upon unless driven an adequate distance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
In the beginning ABS (or airbags) was not even an option. Six months after launch, Hyundai deigned to give us ABS for an extra Rs.30,000 or so, only on special order (the ABS car would take 3-4 weeks to be put together and sent from Chennai). So they never sold ABS-fitted Vernas (and even today only a small percentage of Vernas are sold with ABS).
You forgot to mention that the extra 30K not only got ABS, but also rear discs. My car has that option pack. But Hyundai dealers told me hardly any customer takes the option!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
In the hands of a good driver the Verna is a great car. In the wrong hands it is all too easy to push the car beyond the limits of its tyres and brakes.
Well said. But the statement holds true for any powerful car, doesn't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrackedHead View Post
All I'll say is that he's been lucky to get away with just a smashed bumper.

Agree with you that people need to understand the limitations of their cars.

Its unfortunate that the vast majority does not upgrade due to the fact that they don't understand the difference that spending a few thousand on a tyre upgrade can make.
Guys, to be fair I'm still running the stock 185/65 R14 tyres, and they're quite adequate at speed. But yes, wider rubber is always better for roadholding and speeds.

__________________________________________________ ______

Anyway, the point is, a car is like a bottle of whisky. It is only as dangerous as the man who reaches out for it!

So don't give the Verna a bad name. Enjoy the fact that atleast one manufacturer dared to give us a performance diesel sedan below 10 lakhs, and enjoy the power responsibly.
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Old 15th February 2010, 21:57   #18
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A purely speculative thread. For god's sake when did a 110 bhp 24 kgm torque became uncontrollable? If thats the case, you probably dont know how to drive.
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Old 15th February 2010, 22:02   #19
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1) Verna is a very fast car ( By Indian standards ), and people dont understand this. Its the torque that quickly takes the car to high speeds. Even acceleration from 120 to 160 is fast due to all that huge torque.
This is not for an average person upgrading from an 800 or Alto or Wagon R or Santro.
This is much beyond these cars. Its just too much for average Indian drivers.

Indian drivers : Often the average driver has poor reflexes and this is seen in cases of rear ending in city driving conditions. The rear ending cases are enough to prove that reflexes are slow and inadequate even for city driving, let alone Verna with that torque.

So the first one to be blamed is DRIVER.

2) Car. The suspension is soft, the chassis is not as good as competitors and it shows when you take the car out at high speeds. Compare SX4 or Fiesta with Verna and instantly one comes to know that Verna is not possessing good dynamics.
Brakes are again not good enough. Here I will give special mention for Honda. If we dont consider G2HC i.e. NHC, both G1HC ( OHC ) and G3HC ( ANHC ) have excellent brakes.
Even with thin rubber, G1HC and G3HC have good braking. Yes, beyond 120 the need for higher/thicker rubber is felt, but till that speed, its OK. Verna from day one has poor brakes.

The combination of an average driver + poor suspension + poor brakes are a recepie for disaster. Another aspect is the structural integrity. Often I have seen that the damage extends to deformation of A-pillar which is not good.

Somehow, ( and again and again ) this car brings me back to era of Baleno/Esteem/G1HC ( I consider Baleno the best of all these cars ). Even with not so good rubber, these cars stopped well in a straight line, they performed well. Verna's performance is not this good but still crashes a lot.

PS : From the words " Verna's performance is not as good " I mean that the above mentioned old cars are both faster and quicker than Verna.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
This is the similar fate to most of Dieselised Dzires and Swifts, I dont understand why Maruti's and Hyundais have tuned it in such a way.

5 of my known friends and cousins have sold their DDIs swifts and gone in for Punto's and Vista's for the same reason.

Maruti and Hyundai do this for sake of FE. Even Honda did this in G3HC. The tyres are not good for speeds above 120 IMHO.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 15th February 2010 at 22:07.
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Old 15th February 2010, 22:03   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by predatorwheelz View Post
What good is a driver if he cannot identify these traits in his car and use them to their advantage? The same surge that you think is killer, is a blessing when you're on the highway and a slow moving truck needs to be passed before the gap closes.

Anyway, the point is, a car is like a bottle of whisky. It is only as dangerous as the man who reaches out for it!
A big + 1 to that.
I dont drive/have a Verna CRDi, but have a Dzire VDi and as we all know the turbo whoosh at 2K is really huge but if one drives the car for 100Kms, he would easily know the car's limit's i.e. when to floor the car and when not to.
Safety purely lies with the driver and to what limits he pushes the car.
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Old 15th February 2010, 22:10   #21
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As I have mentioned before, I have no intent of product bashing, but indirectly also do I promote safety.
Aren't those horrifying crash pics enough to give you the evidence?

The fact is that verna crdi's brake size and boosters are the same as petrol's.

Also, the chassis is tuned more for ride comfort rather than handling prowess, read that soft suspension setup. A car for this level of power and torque deserves stiffer suspension.

Third, I would still partly blame Hyundai for DELETING rear disc brake, even on ABS equipped SX model, whereas I20 has this standard, even on the base model.

Related thread here: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...s-rear-sx.html (Silent and sad Omission on the new Verna - Now sports Drum brakes at rear on SX)

Fourth, the base diesel model is severely undertyred. And add to that, no ABS.

I started this thread just because even after the car has been launched three years before, its only recently its almost becoming a habit of mine spotting verna crdis crashed in a similar fashion.

And I urge drivers to please drive safely and responsibly. Yes, kudos to hyundai for a performance diesel sedan but except on express highways, where else in or country will you harness the engine's torque?
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Old 15th February 2010, 22:13   #22
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Im just wondering, if people have trouble with the Swift and Verna. Wonder what Cruze owners must feeling. That thing makes the Verna look slow.

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Old 15th February 2010, 22:20   #23
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Well, my Verna is now 2 years and 9 months old, done 27k till date. It was one of the first batch of ABS CRDi's. Initially, around 5000km, I felt a slight shudder in the front left wheel, and correctly recognized that it was the sound of faulty ABS working. That day, it slightly locked up in hard braking at around 60kmph that too around a bend. I took it to the workshop which was en route, and the problem was rectified within a day. Then I shifted to lo pro tires, but changed back to originals on aftermarket alloys, after i felt ride comfort was compromised. Haven't had a problem ever since. The steering is very light, and IMO very responsive. While overtaking in tricky situations, I find the instant boost from the VGT and the quick response from the steering very useful.

Knowing the car is light for its power, I downshift on inclines and while taking curves while road is wet. I had to resort to emergency braking at speeds around 70- 90 many times, but the car has stopped every time holding to its original line, no slips or wheel locking whatsoever.

Last week, I had a careless moment behind the wheel, the first in my 20 or so years of regular driving. I overtook a slow LCV, but didn't notice a Swift from opposite direction. Thankfully, the Verna responded precisely to my sudden steering input, and the we cleared with ample room. No drama, no lurching, no pulling sideways, whatever.

The initial batch of Vernas in Kerala earned a bad name for high number of accidents, since people upgrading from Ikon Diesels and Accent GLS Diesels got things wrong. They underestimated the car's engine, and overestimated their own skills. And I heard some stories about torque steer also.

The light and soft Korean car is no tight handler. After driving the Laura or the Octavia the day before, I am almost wary of driving it past 50kmph for some distance. It doesn't inspire confidence at speeds above 70- 80 the way, say a Fiesta does, but then a Fiesta Diesel can hardly attain and sustain high speeds that easily either.

That said, AFAIK, ABS prevents wheels locking up, and does not improve braking distance. Experienced drivers can manage quite well in tight emergencies even if the car doesn't have ABS. We as a whole tend to overplay the role of ABS. Look at the tires, and the alignment of your wheels- they save your skin.

To sum up, I think it is always prudent to know how limited my driving skills are than how capable my car is!

Edit: I have never found the Swift Diesel light or unsure.

Last edited by Yeldo : 15th February 2010 at 22:24.
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Old 15th February 2010, 22:22   #24
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In this case, I will not put much blame on the car. From what I've observed, Verna CRDi offers something which no other cars in that segment does. A diesel engine with abundance of power and torque. But finally, you need a sensible head behind the wheel to control it. One has to understand the limits of himself and the car. I would say that more Verna's are in the wrong hands compared to any other car and that's the problem.
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Old 15th February 2010, 22:27   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by predatorwheelz View Post
Give the dog a bad name and hang it, eh?
What good is a driver if he cannot identify these traits in his car and use them to their advantage? The same surge that you think is killer, is a blessing when you're on the highway and a slow moving truck needs to be passed before the gap closes.

As for wheels getting locked, that can happen at any speed, in any car without ABS.

As for the airbags, this is something I agree with. More safety is never bad, and for the money, the car definitely deserves Airbags.

You forgot to mention that the extra 30K not only got ABS, but also rear discs. My car has that option pack. But Hyundai dealers told me hardly any customer takes the option!

So don't give the Verna a bad name. Enjoy the fact that atleast one manufacturer dared to give us a performance diesel sedan below 10 lakhs, and enjoy the power responsibly.
I was waiting for you to post, PW, and it's uncanny how you said exactly the things I thought you'd say!

So to reiterate: the Verna without ABS (or the Getz) in the hands of a boy-racer is an accident waiting to happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by predatorwheelz View Post
Well said. But the statement holds true for any powerful car, doesn't it?
I tried out some really nasty manoeuvres with a Skoda Superb 3.6 V6 some days ago. Maybe I'm not really that good a driver, but whatever I could throw at the car, it swallowed and kept asking for more. Now that is a really powerful car (260 bhp, 35 kg-m), but there was never a moment when it twitched, skidded, went wide on a turn, or felt like it might go out of control. Floor the throttle, and all it does is push you back deep into your seat. Hit the brakes from 180 km/h, it just hits an invisible wall. No drama.

Conclusion: Some cars can handle the power and are built for it. Some cars get so powerful an engine, the chassis and suspension don't deserve it. Vernas without ABS and Getz CRDi's are the cases in point.

I'm outta here before Verna fans shoot me...

EDIT: Haven't driven the Cruze, but I hope it handles better. And AFAI can see, all Verna supporters here are ABS-ed already. Maybe I won't get shot.

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 15th February 2010 at 22:33.
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Old 15th February 2010, 22:37   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post

This is not for an average person upgrading from an 800 or Alto or Wagon R or Santro.

This is much beyond these cars. Its just too much for average Indian drivers.

2)
PS : From the words " Verna's performance is not as good " I mean that the above mentioned old cars are both faster and quicker than Verna.
Hello ???

A person should be a blood relation of Alonso then?

And Baleno etc what? You sure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidindica View Post
.
Aren't those horrifying crash pics enough to give you the evidence?

No! what if I say they were driven by drunk people or those met with accident coz of bad tyres or it wasn't the drivers fault?


A car for this level of power and torque deserves stiffer suspension.

The mass needs better comfy than drive quality.

I started this thread just because even after the car has been launched three years before, its only recently its almost becoming a habit of mine spotting verna crdis crashed in a similar fashion.

And hence you see these many; try looking for some other car, you will be surprised with the result


Quote:
Originally Posted by predatorwheelz View Post
Give the dog a bad name and hang it, eh?


Please dont quote what you hear.

__________________________________________________ ______

Anyway, the point is, a car is like a bottle of whisky. It is only as dangerous as the man who reaches out for it!

So don't give the Verna a bad name. Enjoy the fact that atleast one manufacturer dared to give us a performance diesel sedan below 10 lakhs, and enjoy the power responsibly.
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Old 15th February 2010, 22:41   #27
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I've driven a friend's verna crdi. What disappointed me was that the handling was not commensurate with the power/torque the car had to offer.

Can't comment on the braking since I did not drive it extensively.
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Old 15th February 2010, 22:51   #28
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Well, Sid, I can see couple of totalled santro's in the pics you have posted. Does that mean Santro too is an uncontrollable death trap on wheels?
Boss, come on! What do you expect, when you visit a Hyundai workshop you will be sorrounded by totalled Hyundai cars for obvious reasons. It's a no brainer.

Yes, Having owned a Verna since the past three years and clocking 43K kms on it, I do feel that driving this machine at over 140kmph+ can feel scary. But then, I am aware of my car's limitations.



Quote:
EDIT: Haven't driven the Cruze, but I hope it handles better. And AFAI can see, all Verna supporters here are ABS-ed already. Maybe I won't get shot.
I own one without ABS, and I bought one when the ABS version was'nt even launched. And yes, I'm not a spirit. Still alive enjoying my car to the fullest.

Last edited by live2drive : 15th February 2010 at 22:53.
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Old 15th February 2010, 22:55   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeldo;1734408
That said, AFAIK, ABS prevents wheels locking up, and does not improve braking distance. [B
Experienced drivers can manage quite well in tight emergencies even if the car doesn't have ABS[/b]. We as a whole tend to overplay the role of ABS. Look at the tires, and the alignment of your wheels- they save your skin.

To sum up, I think it is always prudent to know how limited my driving skills are than how capable my car is!

Edit: I have never found the Swift Diesel light or unsure.
Hi Yeldo I beg to differ.Few days back a biker suddenly came in front of me from a side road.Me in my ANHC was trying to overtake a car which was not giving space for me to overtake in a oneway in Trivandrum(I was in a small rat race)

The car was accelarating hard as the rpm was above 3000 (in the iVTEC range).I braked hard and the biker went just across me.By Gods grace there was no vehicle closely following me.

I think if it was our NHC (our car has a tendancy to lock the brakes) I wouldn't have stopped without loss of control.

About Swift Diesel for me it was tough to control it initially when the turbo kicks in.Swift need ABS+Airbags.
My driving skills are also average

Last edited by Mevtec : 15th February 2010 at 22:58.
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Old 15th February 2010, 22:56   #30
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Originally Posted by live2drive View Post
Well, Sid, I can see couple of totalled santro's in the pics you have posted. Does that mean Santro too is an uncontrollable death trap on wheels?
Boss, come on! What do you expect, when you visit a Hyundai workshop you will be sorrounded by totalled Hyundai cars for obvious reasons. It's a no brainer.

Yes, Having owned a Verna since the past three years and clocking 43K kms on it, I do feel that driving this machine at over 140kmph+ can feel scary. But then, I am aware of my car's limitations.

I own one without ABS, and I bought one when the ABS version was'nt even launched. And yes, I'm not a spirit. Still alive enjoying my car to the fullest.
Santros are common, no doubt, but observe the WAY that the vernas have crashed. 3 cars have their front door and fender ripped off.

Swift VDi comes with optional ABS but no airbags.

Last edited by sidindica : 15th February 2010 at 22:57.
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