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Old 16th February 2010, 14:54   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
Braking performance :

80-0kmph
Verna VGT - 31.8m - 2.72secs
Verna 1.6 - 34.9m - 3.08secs

100-0
Verna VGT - 51.1m - 3.88secs
Verna 1.6 - 51.2m - 3.76secs

Shan2nu
Thanks for the figs.
what about its competition? any info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by recshenoy
I dont think Verna with poor safety feature can be called performance car. Performance without safety is a BIG NO NO!
Very true, agree to it,

good acceleration without good braking and good chassis won't appeal to many
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Old 16th February 2010, 15:19   #77
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This thread is along the same lines as sid's other thread 'Is there a quality lapse at the Fiat plant'. Pure speculation based on a few random pics. Good sense prevailed there and that thred was closed. At least the Fiat speculation was backed by some incidents of rusting, but there is no such evidence here.

The Verna CRDI is a fast car and it's upto the driver to learn how to drive correctly. Sure, the tires and brakes could have been bigger, airbags could be standard etc, but ultimately it's upto the driver to drive safe. I take strong exception to the words 'death trap' in the thread title. Overloaded share autos and tempos are death traps, not the Verna.

Last edited by Gilead : 16th February 2010 at 15:21.
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Old 16th February 2010, 15:22   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Accelerator View Post
Tooo shocking stats here... and lots of guessing.. in the end..
By the way whats the lower speed limit in middle east..? Is it that only the youngsters drive fast or that everyone has to drive fast because of that limit..
Well, there is no such thing as lower speed limit there. However, Lower age limit is 16! And those who couldn't affort Porches and Ferraris, buy Maximas just for speed.
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Old 16th February 2010, 15:35   #79
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I am mute spectator to this thread but thought i would chip in with my 2 cents!

Verna is a quick car. No doubt. 1.5 VGT is pretty fast.(I have not driven one but have sat in one!) But the person driving the car is also responsible. But in any eventuality, the car must provide some 'extra' support to the driver. That i feel is missing in this car. We cannot say that the driver alone is responsible or the car alone is responsible.
Hyundai must provide safety features commensurate with the enormous power and the driver must be mindful of the limits of the vehicle.
I feel both must complement each other. The manufacturer cannot prevent a reckless driver from crashing. At the same time, a reckless driver can crash any car, however safe. So at the end of the day, we can only access the odds depending on active/passive safety features.
I feel Verna diesel should be provided with ABS, Airbags (6 at least) and all disc brakes.
This does not prevent crashes but in the unfortunate event, might just save lives!
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Old 16th February 2010, 15:46   #80
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Well its no use blaming the car as there are people who have managed to crash even their Bugattis, Ferraris and Lambos with all their safety gizmos. There is no substitute for safe driving and instead of depending on the superior chassis or that active safety device to get you out of trouble, its imperative tor know the limits of your car and mastering the correct technique. I am quite astonished to find that people driving the most expensive cars are usually the rashest of drivers on the Pune-Mumbai expressway. So its no use blaming the poor Verna but better to blame the driver.
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Old 16th February 2010, 15:52   #81
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I don't think Hyundai can do anything now to improve drastically the handling characteristics of the Verna VGT- including adding back the rear disc brakes. Hence a thread like this(where even verna owners agree the car feels unsafe after 120) can serve as an information for car buyers.

Having said that, it is all an ensemble of both driver and makers responsibility to ensure complete control of the car, and if not, to come out safe out of it.

Hyundai- It is Utopian to assume that every driver will remain sane all the times behind your torque-y 110 horses.


Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

OT:

1)Engine transplants are not legal now, but i would like to know how will this 1.5 Detroit Diesel VGT transform the characteristics of a capable chassis like Fiesta / Punto.

In a recent trip in NH 7, I took the ford ikon 1.8D to 140+ speeds, the chassis felt planted on road like being stiff and solid to handle from the steering inputs, lack of engine power the only grouse.
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Old 16th February 2010, 15:56   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arunsasi View Post
cars don't cause accidents. people cause accidents
cars don't kill people. people kill people

as long as the market is price sensitive car makers will continue to do such mistakes. we don't really have any good laws on safety otherwise the Omni would not have been around.
So very true ! I also FULLY agee with each word. Now my forgoing comment is not to compare/defend the braking ability of various cars in India. Being an average driver (quite unlike many super drivers on this thread who knows everything about cars & driving skills) I am not going to attempt to say X,Y,Z car is better or worse than Verna.
But..

Last edited by Eddy : 16th February 2010 at 19:43.
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Old 16th February 2010, 16:01   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
1) A person should be a blood relation of Alonso then?
2) And Baleno etc what? You sure?
1) No, not even with Kimi, but have some common sense. Must not talk on mobile while driving/riding. Must not give execuse of " you braked suddenly so I rear ended you ".
The average driver must show some discipline and common sense. Most of the times, they get license very easily. The lack of driving sense can be clearly seen on the road.

2) I just wanted to say that those cars had much better better dynamics than Verna.

Quote:
Originally Posted by predatorwheelz View Post
3) That made you question that the structural integrity?. Dude, in any modern car the A-pillar is DESIGNED to deform in the event of an accident, so as to absorb the impact and not pass it on to the passenger shell!

4) Dude, please please get your facts straight. The Baleno, an almost 100 bhp car, came with 165/80 tyres at the time of launch. Even later, in the VXI version the max they gave was 185/60 R14.

The Esteem came loaded with 155 section tyres for donkey's years. Only post 2003/4 they gave it better rubber in the form of 175/70 tyres.

The G3HC comes with 175 section tyres, and you're probably the first person who thinks its inadequate.

As for the Verna, initially the base model came with 175/70 tyres while the SX came with 185/65. Now ALL models of the diesel come with 185 section. Maybe not enough, but not "undertyred" as the 3 cars you quoted.
3) The A-pillar is part of the cabin that must not be deformed. Its job is to be tough enough to avoid deformation.
The crumple zones are ahead of the cabin.

Watch Accent crash test video and Sonata/i20 crash test video. You will come to know that A-pillar deforms in Accent and it will not happen with i20/Sonata.

4) If its not enough, what exactly should one call that ? May be a higher percentage, but still bad.
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Old 16th February 2010, 16:04   #84
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Does this thread warranty some sort of a study to analyze the accident vehicles in India? Is it evenly possible? Does some agency/person actually collect that data? That would be a fair place to judge which car is a death trap or not. Also one needs to keep in mind the % of cars sold Vs % of totalled.

A sample of 100 Indica's (taxi's of course ) totalled against a 25 Verna's may make the Indica a winner Err - a looser in the current context. But if you also gather data to say 100 Totalled from 1000 Sold Vs 25 Totalled Vs 100 Sold makes a BIG difference.

One also needs to know the genre of the accident, place, time, driver age, mental condition etc, etc. I believe only such a analysis can yield the right answers.

Slightly OT - but can also become the main T.

I have always wondered - does any car manufactuer care to visit all the A$$, or the police stations to learn and analyze the post-accident mangled remains. That would be a more realistic crash-testing than having 100 cameras, 1 NATGEO channel, 1 phorein trip for the R&D team and 2-3 crores down the drain!!!

Who read this accident? What in God's green earth can be learnt from this? No amount of frontal, side, rear, doggy style testing could have protected a passenger from this death!!!

Seats belts or No, Disc brakes or No, VGT or No, Verna or Indica, Accidents will happen unless a concerted effort from the government and public together takes place.

Who knew that as recent as 1980's (the beginning of Maruti Era in India), US was still pretty bad at road safety? Remember the reason behind the "Vince and Larry" dummies?
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Old 16th February 2010, 16:16   #85
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I have not yet driven Verna, so I don't want to comment on the car!
But, if there are so many incidents involving a particular car, then it raises suspicion on the car esp on its chasis, handling & braking capabilities.
It is not enough for the car manufacturer to plonk in a powerful engine in a car shell & start selling it.
The chasis & handling should be capable enough to control the car in high speeds!
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Old 16th February 2010, 16:29   #86
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OT : In all this mess, people talking about verna being a performance diesel car under 10L, people are talking about Cruze being faster making verna look slow. we have one more such car in market, which no one is noticing i.e. Optra magnum TCDI

Anyways, i agree to a point, that it all depends on driver. All these cars in bad hands can turn out to be a widow maker for sure.
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Old 16th February 2010, 16:32   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malaymaniar View Post
Please explain the elementary maths behind "bigger tyre=more circumference = better FE"....
By same logic, tractors should be highly fuel efficient
In a given car for a particular running speed (say60 Kmph) the gear ratio remain same so the engine RPM drive the wheels(driven) at fix RPM
Now if RPM is same but due to bigger circum car travel more distance.
Hope I have made myself clear.

cheers
P.S : We are talking about going for bigger tyre size in the same vehicle
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Old 16th February 2010, 16:49   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finneyp View Post
I have not yet driven Verna, so I don't want to comment on the car!
But, if there are so many incidents involving a particular car, then it raises suspicion on the car esp on its chasis, handling & braking capabilities.
It is not enough for the car manufacturer to plonk in a powerful engine in a car shell & start selling it.
The chasis & handling should be capable enough to control the car in high speeds!
If BMWs were sold for 8 Laks, you will see BMW accidents all over the place everyday and hundreds of pics on "Accidents in India" thread.
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Old 16th February 2010, 17:18   #89
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This is OT
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanagg1 View Post
In a given car for a particular running speed (say60 Kmph) the gear ratio remain same so the engine RPM drive the wheels(driven) at fix RPM
Now if RPM is same but due to bigger circum car travel more distance.
Hope I have made myself clear.

cheers
P.S : We are talking about going for bigger tyre size in the same vehicle
Well not entirely true. For the same speed/acceleration the torque requirements may be higher. So the efficiency will be at the cost of performance. To get the same performance you might end up with worse FE.
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Old 16th February 2010, 17:34   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alto99 View Post
This is OT


Well not entirely true. For the same speed/acceleration the torque requirements may be higher. So the efficiency will be at the cost of performance. To get the same performance you might end up with worse FE.
Egg-zactly... OEMs come up with an optimum size for ride and FE, mostly biased towards the latter in Indian markets. If you change tyre size, in most cases you will find reduction in FE.
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