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Old 22nd February 2010, 21:50   #121
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Originally Posted by YVES View Post
Answer on Japanese Reliability is in the Link Toyota boasted of saving $100M on recall - Feb. 21, 2010
My bother owns 2 Toyota's (Corolla & Camry) in the Canada.

He recently went to the dealership to get the steering issue every media is boasting about and it took him 15 mins to get that thing rectified. According to those dealership guys none of the customers have ever complained to them about the power steering issue or anything in the past.
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Old 22nd February 2010, 21:50   #122
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Originally Posted by YVES View Post
I20 may loose more market share than Punto in the 1.2 litre segment.
Owners willing to compromise safety will stick to Japanese cardboard boxes.
Polo will be game changer both in 1.2 ltrs petrol and Diesel bringing solid reliable product.
POLO could be a game changer in India, but not because it is safer than other cars!. As of now i20 is the only hatch made in India with the same spec as sold in Europe, well most of the production is for export. i20 Asta(O) is the only car in sub 10L segment with the same spec that got Five star NCAP. So tell me about who is compromising safety in India?
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Old 22nd February 2010, 22:05   #123
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Originally Posted by kiku007 View Post
I agree to the part that the Rs.84,000/per car loss is utter crap. Who asked them to splurge on the Multi-crore full page news paper ads? Are they trying a Veyron gimmick here? I've heard that the VW Group makes no profit in selling the Veyron.

I don't think it's fair to compare the Polo and Figo pricing. IMHO Figo must have made substantial savings by using the existing Fiesta platfrom. If the Polo platform is new (Internationally) then they need to recover that cost as well.
I beg to differ. The Rs. 84,000 loss per car is very much possible. It could be a marketing strategy by VW to initially put as many Polos on road as possible and then hope it will have a snowball effect on its future sales. This is a very common marketing strategy across a wide spectrum of products and services. Either ways, expect this price to be revised upwards later on.

If its a good product, word of mouth publicity will ensure its later success and 84k per car initially is not a big deal if you are in the market for the long haul. On the contrary, this shows VWs commitment to Indian market.
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Old 22nd February 2010, 22:11   #124
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Very good pricing if this is confirmed by the company. I for one never expected Polo to be priced bang in the middle of competition territory.
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Old 22nd February 2010, 22:27   #125
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Originally Posted by HammerHead View Post
Polo is based on the same platform as Skoda Fabia. It even shares the production line with fabia!!
If Ford can derive a small car costing say 3.5-4.0 Lakh (Base) from a 6 Lakh+ car then why not Polo? IMO it will be very fair to compare Polo with Figo, after reading GTO's Figo review.
You are correct. But the Fabia is a sales disaster. What's the point in sharing anything with it?

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Originally Posted by YVES View Post
Answer on Japanese Reliability is in the Link Toyota boasted of saving $100M on recall - Feb. 21, 2010
Oh my, I forgot that! This recall is the worst thing to have happened to Honda and Toyota but I doubt if it has any impact in India. Also as far as India is concerned they are still high on reliability.

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Originally Posted by SunilM View Post
I beg to differ. The Rs. 84,000 loss per car is very much possible. It could be a marketing strategy by VW to initially put as many Polos on road as possible and then hope it will have a snowball effect on its future sales. This is a very common marketing strategy across a wide spectrum of products and services. Either ways, expect this price to be revised upwards later on.

If its a good product, word of mouth publicity will ensure its later success and 84k per car initially is not a big deal if you are in the market for the long haul. On the contrary, this shows VWs commitment to Indian market.
We aren't questioning the strategy. The question is the truth in this claim.
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Old 22nd February 2010, 23:50   #126
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Originally Posted by goacom View Post
There are reasons why Fiat is no longer Europe's largest selling automobile. There are reasons why VW is now Europe's largest manufacturer and the world's 2nd largest car maker.

Based on VW's track record, its reliability will be better than the Punto, though not as good as the Asians. Its parts will be expensive. Its interior quality will by default, be far superior to anything in the market. Based on the reviews out there, ride quality should also be far better than most of its competitors. There is a certain sense of solidity that not even the Punto will be able to match. In fact in this sense the Punto will be to the Polo what the Swift is to the Punto.

I agree that the Punto will have more gadgets than the Polo. Some people value gadgets over the engineering. Others however will go for the "experience" rather than the cheap thrills with the latest gizmo.

Looks are subjective. I like the look of both cars.
I guess VW is the worlds largest car manufacturer now. Does that warrant it's superiority ? IMO not true. Being largest and being finest are two different things. In that case MSIL cars would have been the best products in India , but that's not the case. They are largest because they cater to the needs of people in a better way than anybody else.

Small example would be Fiats line-up. Look at the number of models Fiat have to cater all the segments and in contrast VWs vast line up.

Do we have any supporting proof for these statements "Its interior quality will by default, be far superior to anything in the market. Based on the reviews out there, ride quality should also be far better than most of its competitors. There is a certain sense of solidity that not even the Punto will be able to match. In fact in this sense the Punto will be to the Polo what the Swift is to the Punto. " ?

In fact topgear rates both these cars with 11/20 points ( including Polo GTI ) where as Abarth rated with 14/20 points. If you talk about the interior quality I don't think we still have a match for Fabia .

So , I guess instead of comparing ride , handling , quality , performance with any of the existing models , lets wait for the TD report first.

Last edited by worldcrawler : 23rd February 2010 at 00:04.
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Old 23rd February 2010, 00:13   #127
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To say that the Polo will be to the Punto what the Punto is to the Swift is a bit of a stretch. I drive a Swift, and every time I go over a rough patch I heard a cacophony of sounds like I'm carrying two skeletons in the back.

The problem with the Punto is that owners have reported bits falling off and bad experiences when they go for servicing. Its also got very mediocre engines. But it looks terrific and the ride/handling is good.

The Polo is likely to not have bits falling off, although servicing is a big question mark, considering what's happening over at Skoda India (which is a subsidiary of VW). Once again, engines are mediocre despite the range topping 1.6, with is a generation old. And yes, you get fewer creature comforts in the Polo.

I dont think the "cheapened for India" Polo is superior to the Punto. If it had been, VW would have priced it higher. Ultimately, you have to pay for quality, and VW seems to have thrown out a lot of the quality bits in the spirit of localization and low prices.
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Old 23rd February 2010, 00:28   #128
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The initial loss is something that exists with most new developments. Its the cost of R&D, setting up assembly lines, initial production costs, dealership/service network etc which is factored into and a break even happens after a manufacturer has sols 'x' units.

But for VW, most of these don't apply.
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Old 23rd February 2010, 02:45   #129
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Originally Posted by theEnd View Post
To say that the Polo will be to the Punto what the Punto is to the Swift is a bit of a stretch. I drive a Swift, and every time I go over a rough patch I heard a cacophony of sounds like I'm carrying two skeletons in the back.

The problem with the Punto is that owners have reported bits falling off and bad experiences when they go for servicing. Its also got very mediocre engines. But it looks terrific and the ride/handling is good.

The Polo is likely to not have bits falling off, although servicing is a big question mark, considering what's happening over at Skoda India (which is a subsidiary of VW). Once again, engines are mediocre despite the range topping 1.6, with is a generation old. And yes, you get fewer creature comforts in the Polo.

I dont think the "cheapened for India" Polo is superior to the Punto. If it had been, VW would have priced it higher. Ultimately, you have to pay for quality, and VW seems to have thrown out a lot of the quality bits in the spirit of localization and low prices.
Very nice and balanced post. Liked it.

I too have a grouse against the Polo's engines. The Punto too should have come with the VGT from day 1, but in their case the Multijet was not exactly a mediocre engine.
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Old 23rd February 2010, 08:19   #130
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Originally Posted by worldcrawler View Post
We still don't have any test drive reports ! Forget about drive and build! consider the high spare cost and A.S.S. If we compare Polo and Punto ( i20 is overpriced by a long margin ) , the build quality is probably going to be same. Drive quality can only be confirmed when we have a detailed TD report, Punto is still the leader in handling and ride department ( don't see Polo wining with a big margin ). I don't see anything premium in Polo. What does it offer which Punto doesn't ? may be the same old debate - plastic quality ! But from the pictures - Punto have a better steering , a better dash layout ( IMO ) , more number of gadgets ( yes, even i20 doesn't have all these ) . More importantly , exterior - IMO Punto still looks better than Polo. And now when we talk about A.S.S., this time around probably the comparison between Polo and Punto would sound like comparing Punto and Swift ( got my point ? ).
The build quality was obvious from the cars seen in the Auto Expo- classy. Punto only has good looks and Ride Quality, suffers big time from a apathetic attitude from FIAT( TATA). Both in fact will compete for who gets lower ratings when it comes to customer service
I20 being overpriced still beats the nearest competition by a big margin- speaks something about the 'Value Proposition" that it brings to the table- right?
Lets wait and watch- i just think that Polo because of its past and world wide following, will garner a lot of customer interest, if it lives upto it, need to see.
If we have a Punto with its ride handling added to it the I20 interiors+safety features and service support of Swift or any such cross overs..we have a ideal car!!! wish...
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Old 23rd February 2010, 08:25   #131
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Originally Posted by Parm View Post
Originally Posted by sidindica
Source: Autocar India March 2010 issue
1.2 petrol highline- 5,70,000
1.6 petrol highline- 6,04,000
I think Autocar goofed up big time. Only 34K difference between 1.2 and 1.6? And to 1.6 doesn't get the small car benefit, so additional tax alone would amount to that much.

Anyway, today's the launch. We will get to know very soon!
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Old 23rd February 2010, 09:02   #132
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Originally Posted by kiku007 View Post
Oh my, I forgot that! This recall is the worst thing to have happened to Honda and Toyota but I doubt if it has any impact in India. Also as far as India is concerned they are still high on reliability.
We aren't questioning the strategy. The question is the truth in this claim.
A star recall in India ! This should end the discussion on Japanese reliability off late.Following Toyota and Honda's footsteps , its now Suzuki.
Indian recall: Maruti Suzuki to replace fuel gaskets in 1 lakh A Stars- Automobiles-Auto-News By Industry-News-The Economic Times
The Toyota recall has hit Japanese non auto products as well in US and Europe.
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Old 23rd February 2010, 09:23   #133
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From what I heard, 1.6 will hit Indian market only in Sept or Oct, 10. 1.2 diesel will be launching only June or July. Currently, they will be launching only 1.2 Petrol. What a misery...!!

Quote:
@aaggoswami 2) The good deal is 1.6 petrol highline, which looks like a steal after looking at 1.2 highline prices. I hope its not the 1.6 Jetta unit.
What is wrong with the Jetta unit? Is there something wrong?
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Old 23rd February 2010, 10:52   #134
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Spoke to a dealer(Downtown Motors) in Bangalore and got these details -

1.2 Petrol : 5.5 - 7 Lakhs
1.2 Diesel : 6.5 - 8 Lakhs
1.6 Petrol : 7.5 Lakhs

All are on Road prices in Bangalore.

1.2 Petrol is going to be delivered from next month
1.2 diesel and 1.6 Petrol from June
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Old 23rd February 2010, 11:47   #135
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Originally Posted by jaykc78 View Post

1.2 Petrol : 5.5 - 7 Lakhs
1.2 Diesel : 6.5 - 8 Lakhs
1.6 Petrol : 7.5 Lakhs

These figures are dream-killers. So, on-road price would be something very close 8.5 lakhs. I am heart broken. Someone had mentioned earlier that the on road price is around 6.04 Lakhs for 1.6 pertol.
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