Honda JAZZ, FEB-2010 Sales 233. What's the way Forward for HONDA ?

[YC.BALENO.CHD]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

Samsung ne Sony ka baja baja diya. Ab Hyundai baja raha hai Honda ka baja. Hyundai has overtaken Honda and is number 4 or 5 in the world. I wonder if Honda is in top 10. If Honda continue to make cars like Jazz and price it as insanely, then they will just be reduced to a niche player.

Honda cars sour grapes? That is a big joke. I know some rich guys who find 16 lakh Laura cheaper than 8 lakh Jazz. They laugh at Honda and at Jazz and at anyone who buys a Jazz. You have to be a sucker for Honda badge to be buying a Jazz at the price it comes at. There are some crazy Honda fans who would buy a Jazz at even 20 lakhs. They should thank Hyundai, Maruti and Tata because had it not been for competiotion from these three big small car makers, Honda would have priced Jazz at even 50 lakhs, and our Honda fans would have had a hard time buying it at that price. They would have probably mortgaged their house, soul and what not to buy a Jazz.

Never heard(read) anything so stupid and childish before, yes it is overpriced, but 50L ? 20L ? honda fanboys ? Do you think India is a country where you would find such people ? And about all honda's being overpriced, i dont think leaving aside the Jazz, the cost of any Honda is out of the box. Yes Honda has gone bonkers and launched a hatch in India at a price of a sedan, so let them learn their lessons themselves ! The monthly sales will speak for them !
stop making such silly statements.

[amit162]

Its sad and amusing to read such a lot of Honda bashing. Guess Honda hurt a lot of us by pricing the Jazz higher then our expectations.The same premium in case of Saloon (City) is not commented upon. Its just that here was a car ( a hatch) which had everything we aspired for yet the pricing let us down - simply because we feel that even if the boot space is equal to a saloon yet it doesn't give us the status which a saloon does. Infact just what I thought before I bought it. But after getting one and driving it - the performance, ambience , overall quality doesn't make me feel that the premium is so great - agreed it is there but not so immense.But only if I decide and know that the quality/ comfort/ space/ driveability is important and not just the shape (2box or 3 box).

[YC.BALENO.CHD]

Originally Posted by amit162

Its sad and amusing to read such a lot of Honda bashing. Guess Honda hurt a lot of us by pricing the Jazz higher then our expectations.The same premium in case of Saloon (City) is not commented upon. Its just that here was a car ( a hatch) which had everything we aspired for yet the pricing let us down - simply because we feel that even if the boot space is equal to a saloon yet it doesn't give us the status which a saloon does. Infact just what I thought before I bought it. But after getting one and driving it - the performance, ambience , overall quality doesn't make me feel that the premium is so great - agreed it is there but not so immense.But only if I decide and know that the quality/ comfort/ space/ driveability is important and not just the shape (2box or 3 box).

Very rightly put, in India, there will never be a concept of a hot hatch, a hatchback is supposed to be cheap, small and have lower status than a saloon. Though i would love to buy a good handling hatch with sedan like comfort and features, a 150bhp engine for 8-9L , but that is not how the majority of us think. if someone is spending 8L , he would want a boot, no matter if he uses it or not.

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD

Though i would love to buy a good handling hatch with sedan like comfort and features, a 150bhp engine for 8-9L , but that is not how the majority of us think.

You yourself have given the answer for why manufacturers would not come out with such a hatch.

A simple example would be the Swift : many on the forum would like it to come with a 1.6litre engine option, but their number would be very negligible among the car-buyers and hence does not make sense for the manufacturer to offer that option.

Originally Posted by amit162

The same premium in case of Saloon (City) is not commented upon.

The premium pricing of the City is also very much commented upon on the forum - atleast used to be for the NHC. With the ANHC, I guess the comments are lesser, but still there.

[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD

Never heard(read) anything so stupid and childish before, yes it is overpriced, but 50L ? 20L ? honda fanboys ? Do you think India is a country where you would find such people ? And about all honda's being overpriced, i dont think leaving aside the Jazz, the cost of any Honda is out of the box. Yes Honda has gone bonkers and launched a hatch in India at a price of a sedan, so let them learn their lessons themselves ! The monthly sales will speak for them !
stop making such silly statements.

Relax buddy! Don't get so worked up. Do you work for Honda or are you a dealer for Honda cars? Why get so agitated? I attacked Honda and not you. But you are attacking me personally by calling stupid, silly childish. Don't take it so personal. We all are at liberty to express our views. I also own two Hondas--- One, a run-of-the-mill Activa and a CBX 750. I am very happy with both but that doesn't mean I will like whatever Honda makes. I own Lancer but I do not draw a sword everytime someone foulmouths Mitsubishi. You can go ahead and say whatever you want to about Mitsubishi. I neither work for Mitsu nor Honda nor Tata nor Maruti nor am I fanatic about ANY car brand. I pay them money and they sell me goods. That's it. I do not endorse or die defending any particular make. And yes, you are right about the monthly sales of Jazz. They will ultimately trickle down to 50 or so units per month.

[YC.BALENO.CHD]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

You yourself have given the answer for why manufacturers would not come out with such a hatch.

A simple example would be the Swift : many on the forum would like it to come with a 1.6litre engine option, but their number would be very negligible among the car-buyers and hence does not make sense for the manufacturer to offer that option.

Exactly, what they should do is provide better engine options offered abroad, on demand, at a premium, now that is a premium i would love to pay for.

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

The premium pricing of the City is also very much commented upon on the forum - atleast used to be for the NHC. With the ANHC, I guess the comments are lesser, but still there.

i think the city zx or the ANHC were/are priced quite competitively. And offered similar features.

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD

what they should do is provide better engine options offered abroad, on demand, at a premium, now that is a premium i would love to pay for.

The problem is there aren't many like you to pay that premium, thus not making it viable enough for them.

To give you another example, you would have many voices on the forum complaining about
how car manufacturers are not bothered about safety, and are not giving ABS/Airbags even as options. But when it comes to their actual car-purchase, I have seen many of them opt for lower trims that don't have ABS or airbags. Voicing an opinion is free, acting on it costs money.

Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD

i think the city zx or the ANHC were/are priced quite competitively.

Competitively is relative. So compared to what ?

[YC.BALENO.CHD]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Competitively is relative. So compared to what ?

obviously when compared to Sx4, Verna etc.

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD

obviously when compared to Sx4, Verna etc.

I guess we are going way off-topic here, but still, are we talking the NHC or ANHC here ?

[kpbhatt]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

I guess we are going way off-topic here, but still, are we talking the NHC or ANHC here ?

Second your opinion. If the discussion is not relevant to what positive suggestions we can give to Honda so that Jazz becomes a better product and sells as well, the mods can close this thread.

[PYSO]

I see the following problems with Jazz, as of now (most others in the discussion seem to think that Jazz pricing is the only problem)

1. Very high pricing
2. Under-featured?
3. Low resale value
4. Social pressure (don't want my friends telling me I have been duped on buying a Jazz)
5. Concerns about Jazz going out of production
6. Concerns about high spare costs / maintenance costs
7. Any others?

Please come up with suggestions, which will take care of all the above. For eg. a suggestion like reducing prices to i20 levels may take care of (1), but may not take care of (4), (6)

[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by PYSO

I see the following problems with Jazz, as of now (most others in the discussion seem to think that Jazz pricing is the only problem)

1. Very high pricing
2. Under-featured?
3. Low resale value
4. Social pressure (don't want my friends telling me I have been duped on buying a Jazz)
5. Concerns about Jazz going out of production
6. Concerns about high spare costs / maintenance costs
7. Any others?

Please come up with suggestions, which will take care of all the above. For eg. a suggestion like reducing prices to i20 levels may take care of (1), but may not take care of (4), (6)

Forget Jazz Pyso. It's a dumb looking car with a dumber price tag. Time to forget Honda's follies and move on. Market is full of better alternatives and some more are on their way. Why be stuck with a non-starter? A big issue has been made just because it is a Honda. Had it been a Fiat, it would have been long buried.

[supremeBaleno]

@Pyso, isn't it too early to speculate that the Jazz will have "low resale value" or will go out of production, or will have high cost of spares/maintenance etc ?

I still believe that if Honda addresses point-1 in your list, they have a winner.

[fiat_tarun]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

@Pyso, isn't it too early to speculate that the Jazz will have "low resale value" or will go out of production, or will have high cost of spares/maintenance etc ?

I still believe that if Honda addresses point-1 in your list, they have a winner.

Did a quick search on car wale. There are two Jazz's for sale. One with 3k and the other with 11.5k on the odo (cars for sale within 1000km from bangalore). Asking price of 7 -7.5 L. I really do not see people spending so much on a used Jazz when a top end i20 with sunroof, GP E Pack or a polo highline can be bought for a lower price. Only a die hard Honda fan will be ready to pick it up. That actually make me believe that the Jazz will be a flop in the used car market as well...

[raul]

While there has been some Honda bashing I think overall its for the pricing not the car, few people will disagree its an excellent product. So its difficult to understand the posts about Honda bashing.

Folks are not happy with the pricing and are expressing their views, some rather robustly. The same thing happens for Punto's interiors or Skoda's service. Everyone is interested in the cars, the car market in India and have opinions, that's why they are members here and that's what this forum is for. So folks should engage in discussion rather than dismiss opinion as Honda bashing or sour grapes which is what makes such threads unhealthy.

The same thing happened for the AHNC which is again 50-100k off, but because of its success most have had to eat humble pie, but with Jazz and low volumes clearly Honda needs to rethink its pricing. Since I highly doubt Honda would do the correction - the Jazz is relatively pricey in most markets albeit a more loaded one - of the 50-100k it needs, Jazz will probably continue to exist in the small market of those who need the 2/3rd car for city use and like the car enough to overlook the premium.

As we can see volumes here can be low but maybe this market could grow and 'exclusivity' creates its own appeal for a rather small section of the marketplace, but let us not mistake this for 'premium' which is what cars like BMW and Mercedes bring to the table in terms of technology, features etc hence the pricing, not the other way round.