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Old 19th March 2010, 16:22   #226
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Originally Posted by coolbareilly View Post
I have went through 15 pages of bashing for Jazz. I small quick question to all, and I am expecting a genuine answer. If Jazz would have been 1-1.5L cheaper with same package, would you all still be bashing her? I believe NO. Because you all accept it is a wonderful car.
No one bashed or disliked Jazz as a product. Its the pricing which most of us think is on higher side.

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Now if I compare the quality of i20, Vista, Swift, etc with Jazz, I dont think no one stand nearby it. For me Quality is refinement, materials, not equipment that come as a package. And for Quality one has to shed money.
As far as I remember, Jazz is priced above City in all the countries where both are sold together. Here in India, because of Indian consumer psychology, Honda had to install 1.2L engine, otherwise Jazz would have costlier than city. Also I believe Jazz is not a hatchback. It is a sedan without "so called boot" but still has more volume than Hyundai Accent.
Well I agree to the fact that quality if Vista and Swift is no match to Jazz but you need to understand the fact that you can actually buy 2 vista's at Jazz's price!!

I'm surprised to see that you included i20 along with Vista and Swift to compare them with Jazz's quality. So according to you i20 is inferior, quality wise, when comparing it to Jazz?

Think of Fiesta 1.6 Duratec Sxi @ Rs. 7.18 Lakhs. Compare this one with Jazz to understand what one can get at price lesser then Jazz!!!

Let VW launch Polo 1.6 which will be little above 6 Lakh, if sources are believed, then lets compare the Germans to Japanese.

IMO its either Honda is not capable of making VFM cars or they think they are the only "Premium" car makers in this country!!!
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Old 19th March 2010, 17:04   #227
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No one bashed or disliked Jazz as a product. Its the pricing which most of us think is on higher side.



Well I agree to the fact that quality if Vista and Swift is no match to Jazz but you need to understand the fact that you can actually buy 2 vista's at Jazz's price!!

I'm surprised to see that you included i20 along with Vista and Swift to compare them with Jazz's quality. So according to you i20 is inferior, quality wise, when comparing it to Jazz?

Think of Fiesta 1.6 Duratec Sxi @ Rs. 7.18 Lakhs. Compare this one with Jazz to understand what one can get at price lesser then Jazz!!!

Let VW launch Polo 1.6 which will be little above 6 Lakh, if sources are believed, then lets compare the Germans to Japanese.

IMO its either Honda is not capable of making VFM cars or they think they are the only "Premium" car makers in this country!!!
Friend Why NEC/Sony/Panasonic are expensive than Samsung/LG. Be it electronics/automobiles/any other industry Koreans cant be compared with Japanese.
Fiesta is no doubt a very good car, VFM package. But (personally) it no where speaks quality which one can feel. Secondly, (what I have heard) Ford has pretty expensive service spares.
VW Polo 1.6. Lets wait and watch. I cant comment on the product which is still to be launched.
I believe, if one is looking for quality, he has to shed more.

Last edited by coolbareilly : 19th March 2010 at 17:06. Reason: missed one line
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Old 19th March 2010, 17:32   #228
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Originally Posted by coolbareilly View Post
Friend Why NEC/Sony/Panasonic are expensive than Samsung/LG. Be it electronics/automobiles/any other industry Koreans cant be compared with Japanese.
Fiesta is no doubt a very good car, VFM package. But (personally) it no where speaks quality which one can feel. Secondly, (what I have heard) Ford has pretty expensive service spares.
VW Polo 1.6. Lets wait and watch. I cant comment on the product which is still to be launched.
I believe, if one is looking for quality, he has to shed more.
Not really sure about the first statement, but I do agree with the second one.
I have been using a 17" samsung LCD monitor for over 5 years - got good warranty support when a small thing went wrong, and it has been going great ever since. I recently got another samsung 22" monitor, and it has been running great for the past year. Nothing wrong in korean stuff as I see.
If it runs good, gives good warranty backup and has comparable performance (say picture quality in monitor and engine performance in a car), I see no reason to believe the first statement.
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Old 19th March 2010, 19:04   #229
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Friend Why NEC/Sony/Panasonic are expensive than Samsung/LG. Be it electronics/automobiles/any other industry Koreans cant be compared with Japanese.
You are wrong my friend!! Expensive = Good?? I don't think this is always true. Go to the nearest electronics mall and check out Samsung LCD's and compare every bit of it to a comparable (read = features & price band) Sony LCD and let me know if you are still correct when you say Korean Samsung cannot beat Japanese Sony. In automobiles compare Hyundai cars with its Japanese competitor = Maruti Suzuki here in India and point me to a single car from Maruti Suzuki which matches Hyundai i10 in terms of overall quality leave alone i20!!!

Even I was of the impression that Koreans cannot beat Japanese in electronics, but not anymore.
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Old 19th March 2010, 20:31   #230
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For arguments sake let us believe Honda that the manufacturing cost of Jazz is high. Also it is pretty clear that market will not accept this product at this price. Then what are the options for honda? First and foremost is accepting that this is going to be a niche product. I think this was sort of clear to Honda. They consistently maintained that Jazz is not going to outsell their flagship product city, though they wouldn't have expected the sales to drop to this level.

They can leave this product as it is, or at the most give some more frills or minor subsidies. This is not going to change the situation much, and the product is going to go the way of Fusion or Corsa Sail.

Second option could be to bring a stripped down version. But my hunch is even with this, they might not be able to price less than 6 lacs. Customers most likely won't accept a stripped down car at this price.

Third option could be to bring a more expensive truly premium version. One with a 1.5l engine, automatic transmission, leather seats, climate control etc, with a price tag of 8.5 to 9 lacs on the road. This will strengthen the position as a niche product. I somehow am more inclined to this.
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Old 19th March 2010, 20:46   #231
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You are wrong my friend!! Expensive = Good?? Samsung LCD's and compare every bit of it to a comparable (read = features & price band) Sony LCD and let me know if you are still correct when you say Korean Samsung cannot beat Japanese Sony.

Point me to a single car from Maruti Suzuki which matches Hyundai i10 in terms of overall quality leave alone i20!!!

Even I was of the impression that Koreans cannot beat Japanese in electronics, but not anymore.

Even though I hate the Honda bashing in this thread its quite intresting to read.

I agree Maruthi Suzuki fails to meet the interior quality of some Hyundai cars.I felt really bad when I compared my Swifts interior to my friends i10 sports.

The over priced Baleno (later discounted) had good quality interiors.

Bit off topic
I always thought Samsung made the best Lcd TV but just search
MouthShut.com and Indian Consumer Complaints Forum before buying one.The number of complaints about the product and service is disturbing
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Old 19th March 2010, 21:27   #232
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Originally Posted by coolbareilly View Post
Friend Why NEC/Sony/Panasonic are expensive than Samsung/LG. Be it electronics/automobiles/any other industry Koreans cant be compared with Japanese.
I totally agree with your comment here. Just google the following.
1. Toyota recall
2. Honda recall
3. Hyundai recall

See the results which come up.
Toyota - stuck gas pedal, steering issues
Honda - faulty brake pedals
Hyundai - faulty door locks

Yeah, actually there is no comparison.
I may get flamed for this post, but couldn't help after reading the comment.

And by the way, Hyundai Heavy industries is the world's largest ship builder (producing 10% of the world's ships)

Last edited by A350XWB : 19th March 2010 at 21:35.
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Old 19th March 2010, 22:31   #233
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Originally Posted by coolbareilly View Post
Be it electronics/automobiles/any other industry Koreans cant be compared with Japanese.
It is the Nth time that I am posting this link (Time Magazine) in this forum.
Hyundai: America's Most Successful Car Company - TIME

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Originally Posted by coolbareilly View Post
I believe, if one is looking for quality, he has to shed more.
My definition of quality is 'value in a context'. Refinement may be quality to some buyers. Interior space for some others and so on. A single yardstick cannot be used to judge the value of a car. It would vary from buyer to buyer, depending on the context.

Just because the sticker price is more does not mean that the car has better 'quality'.
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Old 21st March 2010, 20:22   #234
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Honda is indeed in a tricky situation with the Jazz. Bringing down the price of current Jazz could be a disaster for them, as our market could then perceive it is as a weak product.
I do agree with Bijujj's post above. What Honda can do is to get the 1.5L engine and along with that add on the frills which they provide on the Jazz in other SEA markets better wheels, sun roof, added safety features etc. And if they can bring all these with the current pricing, it will be fantastic for the buyers!
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Old 21st March 2010, 23:05   #235
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It would be unrealistic to expect the Jazz to be priced down much more than what it currently is. Afterall, it is just a City without a boot. I guess the reality is that the Indian market is not ready for a hot hatch. Honda is not the first manufacturer to face this either.
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Old 22nd March 2010, 11:11   #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tatsago
it is just a City without a boot. I guess the reality is that the Indian market is not ready for a hot hatch.
Is the Jazz really an "ANHC" without the boot ? I think it is more like the NHC without a boot (the ANHC is in a different league altogether as far as power and other params are concerned) ? By this logic, since the base NHC was available at 7.4 on-road Chennai, with the boot cut off, should the Jazz not be available at sub-7lac ?

Also, while the Jazz is a good car, I don't really think it is what you can call a "hot hatch".
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Old 22nd March 2010, 11:20   #237
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Is the Jazz really an "ANHC" without the boot ? I think it is more like the NHC without a boot (the ANHC is in a different league altogether as far as power and other params are concerned) ? By this logic, since the base NHC was available at 7.4 on-road Chennai, with the boot cut off, should the Jazz not be available at sub-7lac ?

Also, while the Jazz is a good car, I don't really think it is what you can call a "hot hatch".
Could you please ellaborate why ANHC is in different league altogether?

As far as I am concerned Jazz scores over ANHC on the following parameters:

1) Its a global platform. Jazz sells in EU and US, the ANHC is a platform aimed at developing countries

2) Jazz has better interiors than ANHC and even the quality of materials used in the dash is superior than the cheap looking central console in ANHC

3) Jazz is as heavy as ANHC (quite close weight wise) so one cant say reducing price is as simple as cutting the boot.

The only area where ANHC scores over Jazz is the engine and that too as Jazz benefits from lower excise thanks to our govt regulations. In all other countries Jazz is pricier than ANHC for a reason. Now the 10% excise benefit is passed on to the customer and therefore Jazz is around 1.5 lakhs cheaper than ANHC. Now I dont know how much cost does Jazz save by giving a 1.2 ltr i-vtec engine over the 1.5 ltr but I am sure its not the engine cost but the excise that has resulted in this choice.

As far as your argument about Jazz being compared to base NHC. Well, just caz the two look the same doesnt mean they share the same platform. In addition the base Jazz comes with stereo, steering mounted audio controls, Airbags, ABS and a i-vtec engine. A 100 bhp NHC VTEC Plus with Airbags and ABS was 8.9 lakhs ex showroom IIRC.
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Old 22nd March 2010, 11:22   #238
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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Is the Jazz really an "ANHC" without the boot ? I think it is more like the NHC without a boot (the ANHC is in a different league altogether as far as power and other params are concerned) ? By this logic, since the base NHC was available at 7.4 on-road Chennai, with the boot cut off, should the Jazz not be available at sub-7lac ?

Also, while the Jazz is a good car, I don't really think it is what you can call a "hot hatch".
I agree that its not a hot hatch. But ANHC is the Jazz with the boot and different engine.
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Old 22nd March 2010, 11:41   #239
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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post

Also, while the Jazz is a good car, I don't really think it is what you can call a "hot hatch".
+1

Jazz cannot be called a 'hot hatch' by any stretch of imagination (IMO)
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Old 22nd March 2010, 12:59   #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Is the Jazz really an "ANHC" without the boot ? I think it is more like the NHC without a boot (the ANHC is in a different league altogether as far as power and other params are concerned) ? By this logic, since the base NHC was available at 7.4 on-road Chennai, with the boot cut off, should the Jazz not be available at sub-7lac ?

Also, while the Jazz is a good car, I don't really think it is what you can call a "hot hatch".
I agree to supremeBaleno . As far as I know NHC was based on Jazz/Fit platform and shares the overall shape and does look like Jazz/Fit with a boot. ANHC is different then Jazz in more than one way and is more closer to Civic. Firstly the overall design does not resemble Jazz in any angle ad then the engine.

Even I think Jazz is NHC without boot and if NHC base was available at 7.4 on-road, with a excise benefits Jazz base should be below 7Lakh on road.

Last edited by HammerHead : 22nd March 2010 at 13:02.
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