Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 22nd March 2010, 13:46   #241
BHPian
 
rutvij's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ahmedabad
Posts: 354
Thanked: 105 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerHead View Post
I agree to supremeBaleno . As far as I know NHC was based on Jazz/Fit platform and shares the overall shape and does look like Jazz/Fit with a boot. ANHC is different then Jazz in more than one way and is more closer to Civic. Firstly the overall design does not resemble Jazz in any angle ad then the engine.

Even I think Jazz is NHC without boot and if NHC base was available at 7.4 on-road, with a excise benefits Jazz base should be below 7Lakh on road.
NHC was based on first generation Jazz/FIT and ANHC is based on 2nd generation Jazz. Both ANHC and Jazz share 70% of parts and therefore it is wrong to compare Jazz with NHC which is 1 generation older.
rutvij is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2010, 15:19   #242
Senior - BHPian
 
HammerHead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Goan in Pune
Posts: 1,093
Thanked: 210 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem View Post
As far as I am concerned Jazz scores over ANHC on the following parameters:

1) Its a global platform. Jazz sells in EU and US, the ANHC is a platform aimed at developing countries.
Does that mean Jazz's platform is superior then ANHC?

Quote:
3) Jazz is as heavy as ANHC (quite close weight wise) so one cant say reducing price is as simple as cutting the boot.
FYI, weight difference between Punto (1190) and Linea (1240) is 50 KG which is exactly same as weight difference between Jazz (1055) and ANHC (1100) !!

Quote:
In all other countries Jazz is pricier than ANHC for a reason.
It would be great if you could tell the reason

Quote:
Originally Posted by rutvij View Post
NHC was based on first generation Jazz/FIT and ANHC is based on 2nd generation Jazz. Both ANHC and Jazz share 70% of parts and therefore it is wrong to compare Jazz with NHC which is 1 generation older.
Thanks for the information.
HammerHead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2010, 15:34   #243
Senior - BHPian
 
aseem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Delhi
Posts: 1,737
Thanked: 416 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerHead View Post
Does that mean Jazz's platform is superior then ANHC?.
And when did I say that? Its just that someone said that ANHC is close to Civic, where as in reality its based on the Fit/Jazz platform. Jazz being the global product of the two sold in mature automotive markets. ANHC on the other hand is restricted to developing countries. The dashboard makes the difference (cost cutting in ANHC) evident.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerHead View Post
FYI, weight difference between Punto (1190) and Linea (1240) is 50 KG which is exactly same as weight difference between Jazz (1055) and ANHC (1100) !!.
I am not quite sure whats the point you are making here. I am sorry I just stated that Jazz is as heavy as ANHC and you just validated it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerHead View Post
It would be great if you could tell the reason .
Well the reason being simple, plonk the same engine and do away with excise, its more expensive for Honda to make Jazz than ANHC. ANHC is aimed at developing markets and the quality of materials used is not given the same precedence as having a boot in developing markets. If you look at what Jazz offers in terms of space, convinient seating options and the quality of dash, not even City matches it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerHead View Post

Thanks for the information.
Lastly lets assume for argument sake Jazz is same as NHC - boot (whereas in reality ANHC is based on 2nd generation Jazz platform). Than as I had stated earlier a NHC vtec (not even i-vtec), with airbags and ABS was close to 9 lakh ex showroom. It didnt have steering mounted audio controls, magic seats, and its dash was a generation old.
Now considering 10% of that 9 lakhs is down to excise, the cost of making NHC vtec with ABS and Airbags was 8.1 lakhs. Now do you think 1 lakh reduction of cost for the boot is valid enough? Swift Dezire too charges less premium than that over Swift.
aseem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2010, 15:44   #244
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Technocrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mid West
Posts: 14,900
Thanked: 2,492 Times
Default

Saw Jazz's advert today of Hond Jazz Select Edition. Felt like rephrasing the Honda tagline & ask them Why So Shameless Honda?

I mean come on, A special edition which boasts of Alloy Wheels(the only good part), Rear Parcel Tray & (holding my breath) Mud Flaps

Have they totally lost it? I seriously wish that Jazz turns out to be their biggest Pricing/marketing disaster.

Last edited by Technocrat : 22nd March 2010 at 15:50.
Technocrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2010, 16:32   #245
BHPian
 
onelife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 34
Thanked: 7 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technocrat View Post
Saw Jazz's advert today of Hond Jazz Select Edition. Felt like rephrasing the Honda tagline & ask them Why So Shameless Honda?

I mean come on, A special edition which boasts of Alloy Wheels(the only good part), Rear Parcel Tray & (holding my breath) Mud Flaps

Have they totally lost it? I seriously wish that Jazz turns out to be their biggest Pricing/marketing disaster.
Honda is just trying to bridge the gap between i20(the closest competitor) and Jazz. Alloy wheels was the only thing that could be done without altering the car per se. Other differentiators like climate control, electric OVRM etc take more efforts. They should have done without increasing the price though.

Can anyone suggest if INR 10K for getting alloy wheels is reasonable? I mean lets say I want to replace my existing wheels with alloy wheels, what would be the cost? I already have purchased Jazz and was thinking of going for the Select pack (don't really care about the mud flaps and parcel tray).
onelife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2010, 16:43   #246
Distinguished - BHPian
 
supremeBaleno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Weekdays@Chennai, Weekends@Kerala
Posts: 5,164
Thanked: 1,638 Times
Default

@onelife, I think 10K for the Honda alloys is actually a good deal. It would cost you around the same (or more) outside too.
supremeBaleno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2010, 16:46   #247
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Technocrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mid West
Posts: 14,900
Thanked: 2,492 Times
Default

See ideally they should have simply added these to the existing model at no extra charge instead of calling it a select edition, who knows may be they will.

As for your query, if you are getting OEM Alloys for 10k & if you like them then they are worth the money. In After market you have lots of choice in varying budgets.
Technocrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2010, 16:57   #248
Senior - BHPian
 
Gilead's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 2,140
Thanked: 20 Times
Default

I saw the ad too and had a good laugh. I think this must be the first time in India's automotive history that a manufacturer is advertising mud flaps. I think the next special edition will have floor and dicky mats and maybe a body cover as well.
Gilead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2010, 17:04   #249
Senior - BHPian
 
Latheesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bangalore/Kannur
Posts: 2,985
Thanked: 2,672 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilead View Post
II think the next special edition will have floor and dicky mats and maybe a body cover as well.
And they will name/call it COLLECTOR'S EDITION.

Looks like Honda trying hard to sell Jazz as I have seen many SELECT edition ads in news papers.
Latheesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2010, 17:06   #250
Senior - BHPian
 
neoonwheels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pune
Posts: 1,652
Thanked: 599 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Latheesh View Post
And they will name/call it COLLECTOR'S EDITION.

Looks like Honda trying hard to sell Jazz as I have seen many SELECT edition ads in news papers.
May be clearing up the inventory which Honda built up assuming people will buy it just for the sake of Honda.
neoonwheels is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2010, 17:19   #251
Senior - BHPian
 
HammerHead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Goan in Pune
Posts: 1,093
Thanked: 210 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem View Post
And when did I say that? Its just that someone said that ANHC is close to Civic, where as in reality its based on the Fit/Jazz platform. Jazz being the global product of the two sold in mature automotive markets. ANHC on the other hand is restricted to developing countries. The dashboard makes the difference (cost cutting in ANHC) evident.

Yes, I still feel that ANHC is close to Civic in terms of equipment level offered and the overall image.

Quote:
I am not quite sure whats the point you are making here. I am sorry I just stated that Jazz is as heavy as ANHC and you just validated it.
I gave that example cause you said "Jazz is as heavy as ANHC (quite close weight wise) so one cant say reducing price is as simple as cutting the boot." and "Punto to Linea" is an example that shows how much you can save by just cutting the boot.

Quote:
Lastly lets assume for argument sake Jazz is same as NHC - boot (whereas in reality ANHC is based on 2nd generation Jazz platform). Than as I had stated earlier a NHC vtec (not even i-vtec), with airbags and ABS was close to 9 lakh ex showroom. It didnt have steering mounted audio controls, magic seats, and its dash was a generation old.
Now considering 10% of that 9 lakhs is down to excise, the cost of making NHC vtec with ABS and Airbags was 8.1 lakhs. Now do you think 1 lakh reduction of cost for the boot is valid enough? Swift Dezire too charges less premium than that over Swift.
If you want to compare premium charged between a Hatch and Sedan on the same platform, Swift to DZire is not the correct example since the only difference between these 2 is the boot!!!

Consider Punto and Linea as an example, reason like Jazz and ANHC, both look different in most angles and the price difference between Punto 1.4 EPK and Linea 1.4 EPK is 1.6 Lakh!!! and thats the reason IMO Jazz should be at least 1.5 Lakh cheaper then ANHC.
HammerHead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2010, 17:27   #252
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NH209
Posts: 1,607
Thanked: 701 Times
Default

Come on Honda.. everyone are laughing at you for the pricing and features of our Jazz hatch back.

Die-hard die-again honda fans like me cannot take this insult for a long time. So Here's a marketing strategy for you:

1) Declare that Honda Jazz sales has well-exceeded the target and announce that H has decided to sell at a permanent discount(rather than pitching upon NDTV's car of the year - Xylo already treaded that path, but its sale shows no signs of improvement).

2) Or like the civic sports, jazz sports can also be thought of (we change spelling to sportz to confuse the competition). Or announce that 1.2 engine is BS IV non-compliant to bring up the new engine.

3) Plainly telling mudflaps will invite wry humour. Add spices like, imported, body-hugging, aerodynamic, first of a kind in the history of automobiles etc. Maybe the mudflaps will become the USP then.
ramzsys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2010, 18:30   #253
Senior - BHPian
 
aseem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Delhi
Posts: 1,737
Thanked: 416 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerHead View Post
Yes, I still feel that ANHC is close to Civic in terms of equipment level offered and the overall image.
Equipment Level??? If we are talking equipment level than i10 Asta with sunroof has more equipement level than ANHC. As far as comparison of equipment level is concerned Jazz and ANHC have the same equipment 'level', barring no CD player, magic seats, in ANHC and no USB in Jazz.

I am not talking about feelings. I am talking about facts, and its a fact that ANHC is based on Jazz platform and not Civic's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerHead View Post
If you want to compare premium charged between a Hatch and Sedan on the same platform, Swift to DZire is not the correct example since the only
difference between these 2 is the boot!!!
Agreed. But we have many forummers comparing Jazz with NHC with an i-DSI engine is that a fair example?

Whilst I agree that Jazz lacks in the engine department (horses wise not technology) it has some other cards up its sleeve that even ANHC doesnt have like magic seats, space utilization and a much better dash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerHead View Post
Consider Punto and Linea as an example, reason like Jazz and ANHC, both look different in most angles and the price difference between Punto 1.4 EPK and Linea 1.4 EPK is 1.6 Lakh!!! and thats the reason IMO Jazz should be at least 1.5 Lakh cheaper then ANHC.
And it nearly is!!! Thanks for making this point makes my life easier.

The difference between Jazz: 7.11 lakhs ex show delhi and City S MT: 8.56 lakhs ex-shwroom delhi is 1.45 lakhs. So as per your own statement Jazz is overpiced by a mere 5000 Rs. Now whats the fuss all about?

Last edited by aseem : 22nd March 2010 at 18:38.
aseem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2010, 20:24   #254
Senior - BHPian
 
HammerHead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Goan in Pune
Posts: 1,093
Thanked: 210 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem View Post
Equipment Level??? If we are talking equipment level than i10 Asta with sunroof has more equipement level than ANHC. As far as comparison of equipment level is concerned Jazz and ANHC have the same equipment 'level', barring no CD player, magic seats, in ANHC and no USB in Jazz.
Oh man, think beyond magic seats, CD player and USB port!!
Where is AT? Paddle Shift?

Quote:
I am not talking about feelings. I am talking about facts, and its a fact that ANHC is based on Jazz platform and not Civic's.
I never said that ANHC is based on Civic!!! Did I?


Quote:
Agreed. But we have many forummers comparing Jazz with NHC with an i-DSI engine is that a fair example?
No its not!! I'm with you on this.

Quote:
Whilst I agree that Jazz lacks in the engine department (horses wise not technology) it has some other cards up its sleeve that even ANHC doesnt have like magic seats, space utilization and a much better dash.
Magic seats again Here is a list of things missing in Jazz.
no alloy wheels, no height adjustable seat, no dead pedal, no parcel tray, no arm rests, no lumbar support!!!


Quote:
And it nearly is!!! Thanks for making this point makes my life easier.
The difference between Jazz: 7.11 lakhs ex show delhi and City S MT: 8.56 lakhs ex-shwroom delhi is 1.45 lakhs. So as per your own statement Jazz is overpiced by a mere 5000 Rs. Now whats the fuss all about?
No its not!! Check this out.
City 1.5 V MT : Rs. 928,000
Jazz Active : Rs. 872,491

Difference : Rs. 55,509

IMO these 2 trim levels are identical. These are the only ones with fog lamps. Now add 1lakh to the difference + the excise savings + Price difference between 1.5 and 1.2 ivtec = Jazz Active

I hope you got what's the fuss all about

Last edited by HammerHead : 22nd March 2010 at 20:28.
HammerHead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2010, 20:57   #255
BHPian
 
car-dent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NOIDA
Posts: 132
Thanked: 27 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerHead View Post
Oh



No its not!! Check this out.
City 1.5 V MT : Rs. 928,000
Jazz Active : Rs. 872,491

Difference : Rs. 55,509


where are these prices for jazz? jazz active is 774,391 ex showroom Pune as per the website.
so the difference is Rs 153609.

Last edited by car-dent : 22nd March 2010 at 20:59.
car-dent is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Honda India : The Way Forward GTO The Indian Car Scene 608 28th November 2017 12:34
The Mahindra Quanto's poor sales. What's the way forward? narayan The Indian Car Scene 108 9th June 2014 15:09
Tata Fiat passenger car JV-the way forward sidindica The Indian Car Scene 54 2nd May 2012 21:00
With rising fuel prices, are small capacity blown petrol engines the way forward? MaserQ Technical Stuff 17 10th August 2011 11:13


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 01:18.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks