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Old 22nd March 2010, 21:10   #256
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Not being a party of the arguement, but I do agree with Aseem here. Jazz is indeed a better product in comparison with the new Honda City, in terms of fit & finish, quality , space management etc. The only negative point I can see with the Jazz is that it does not come with 1.5L unit (which is engine of choice in developed Asian markets).

Normally in the developed markets, buyers go for City only if they really have the urge to experience the Honda quality over the likes of Hyundai, Kia, Cheverlot etc.
Another point to note is that worldwide City is Honda's entry level model, and not the Jazz. And to mention that Honda City is close to Civic, is like saying Suzuki Alto is close to Swift!

Having said all these, I feel it will be hard for Honda to make a mark with the current Jazz. Their market-survey group should've taken a leaf out of their Suzuki counterpart. Worldwide the SX4 was launched as a cross-over machine, but when it came to India, it became a manly sedan, and they marketed it as a replacement to Baleno. They clearly knew that in India 3-box will be always considered superior to 2-box.

My wishful thinking is that Honda will revamp the Jazz with 1.5L engine, get some more frills like Sun-roof, auto box etc., and retain the current pricing :-)
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Old 22nd March 2010, 22:36   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by car-dent View Post
where are these prices for jazz? jazz active is 774,391 ex showroom Pune as per the website.
so the difference is Rs 153609.
Oh my bad ignore last point in my previous post. I have a price list in excel which I refer, just checked the formulas and found that they are wrong

Last edited by HammerHead : 22nd March 2010 at 22:37.
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Old 22nd March 2010, 22:46   #258
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Wow such a long thread for a product which is being called a failure. Honda really has a great brand. Even their failures are being talked about . Jokes apart, clearly, everybody wants the Honda Jazz to succeed and that's why raising all sorts of points about Honda's marketing strategy and asking them to correct the pricing. No one is questioning the technical brilliance and performance of the car.

While bad pricing may make a product fail or succeed in the market, I feel Honda has all the right to charge a premium for what they feel is a "Hot Hatch".Maybe it is in Honda's best interest (long term) for Honda Jazz to fail as an expensive car rather than succeed as a well priced car.
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Old 22nd March 2010, 23:39   #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerHead View Post
No its not!! Check this out.
City 1.5 V MT : Rs. 928,000
Jazz Active : Rs. 872,491

Difference : Rs. 55,509

IMO these 2 trim levels are identical. These are the only ones with fog lamps. Now add 1lakh to the difference + the excise savings + Price difference between 1.5 and 1.2 ivtec = Jazz Active

I hope you got what's the fuss all about
This just made this post loose all is credibility. I will let the pictures do the talking:

Name:  jazz.jpg
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Size:  25.4 KB

Name:  city.jpg
Views: 5000
Size:  30.6 KB

The price difference between Honda City S MT and Jazz base version which have identical features like for like is 1.45 lakhs.

The price difference between Honda City V MT (9.01) and Honda Jazz Select (7.21) which have the same features barring fog lamps is 1.8 lakhs. I am not including Jazz active price as in addition to fog lamps it gets:
Sports Pedal
Tail Gate Spoiler
Side Step Illuminated Garnish (front)
Side Step Garnish (rear)
Silver Finish on Front Gauges
New grille

The price difference betwen Honda City V MT Elegance Pack (9.36) and Honda Jazz Active (7.57) which have identical features is: 1.79 lakhs.

So I suggest next time before you jump the gun and make laughing smileys, you get your facts right. Cheers and Peace!
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Old 23rd March 2010, 00:37   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerHead
Here is a list of things missing in Jazz.
no alloy wheels, no height adjustable seat, no dead pedal, no parcel tray, no arm rests, no lumbar support!!!
Hey, you forgot the mud-flaps. Oops, those come only with the Select variant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by onelife
No one is questioning the technical brilliance and performance of the car.
Let us not kid ourselves. The Jazz is a good car. But neither is it a technical marvel that you make it out to be nor is there anything to talk about in its performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by onelife
I feel Honda has all the right to charge a premium for what they feel is a "Hot Hatch".
Honda can "feel" a lot of things, but to say that the Jazz is a "hot hatch" is to really stretch it till the whole thing snaps. But then I don't really think even Honda 'feels' the way you do - they might like to think of the Jazz as premium, but I dont think they will call it a hot-hatch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by onelife
Maybe it is in Honda's best interest (long term) for Honda Jazz to fail as an expensive car rather than succeed as a well priced car.
Really ? That's a new one. That must be coming from the "Honda book on learning from your failures" series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem
Could you please ellaborate why ANHC is in different league altogether?
The engine for example. Everyone else might not share your interest in the dashboard or interiors - the heart of the car might matter more for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem
In all other countries Jazz is pricier than ANHC for a reason.
So, what is your point ? Just because some south-east asian country has Jazz priced above the City, we also need to follow that ? And bucking the trend is wrong ? Yeah, people here think a sedan is better. So what is wrong about that ? And anyway when did Indian car prices start following the global trend ?

@Aseem, you think the Jazz is priced perfect. Great. But looks like the Indian consumer does not seem to reflect your opinion. And I am sure that is pretty clear to those whom it matters most - Honda Siel India Ltd.

Last edited by supremeBaleno : 23rd March 2010 at 00:38.
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Old 23rd March 2010, 01:43   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem View Post
In all other countries Jazz is pricier than ANHC for a reason
Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Just because some south-east asian country has Jazz priced above the City, we also need to follow that?
A minor correction:
Name:  HondaPhil.png
Views: 17558
Size:  14.9 KB
Source: Price Guide :: Honda Cars Philippines, Inc.

I am taking Philippines because I have been there for a while, and have seen both the cars there. Note that the Jazz there has a 1.3 iVTEC heart (as well as a the 1.5), and so does the City.

My point is - in other countries, the Jazz is not priced higher than the City but the City is priced lower than the Jazz. And yeah, it is ANHC that we have here, arrow-head et all.

By not launching the global 1.3 and 1.5 iVTECs in the Jazz and keeping it under 1.2 means Honda is getting the excise benefit, and yet has over-priced the Jazz (am not even talking about the City here, you can see that for yourself!).

Bring in the 1.5 variant at the same price, and then we're talking!

Last edited by ph03n!x : 23rd March 2010 at 01:48.
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Old 23rd March 2010, 14:59   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem View Post
This just made this post loose all is credibility. I will let the pictures do the talking:

The price difference between Honda City S MT and Jazz base version which have identical features like for like is 1.45 lakhs.

The price difference between Honda City V MT (9.01) and Honda Jazz Select (7.21) which have the same features barring fog lamps is 1.8 lakhs. I am not including Jazz active price as in addition to fog lamps it gets:
Sports Pedal
Tail Gate Spoiler
Side Step Illuminated Garnish (front)
Side Step Garnish (rear)
Silver Finish on Front Gauges
New grille

The price difference betwen Honda City V MT Elegance Pack (9.36) and Honda Jazz Active (7.57) which have identical features is: 1.79 lakhs.

So I suggest next time before you jump the gun and make laughing smileys, you get your facts right. Cheers and Peace!
I agreed to my mistake that I made with the price comparison. IMO the price difference between Jazz and City looks comparable to other manufactures just because City itself is priced quiet higher then its nearest competitor!!

I'll still say that City is better equipped then Jazz.
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Old 23rd March 2010, 16:11   #263
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In my opinion, even though Jazz has the best engine & is the most spacious hatch, it is still overpriced by almost a lac. At the price point, all other sedans like SX4, Linea, Fiesta, Verna, etc are available. Though Honda badge has a snob value, any sedan will prevail at the time of making decision to buy a car in that price range.

Those who are buying the Jazz at present are those having a bigger car at home & are using the Jazz to avoid traffic jams, parking hassles & for other reasons other than the features that Jazz is famous for.
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Old 23rd March 2010, 16:15   #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem View Post

As far as I am concerned Jazz scores over ANHC on the following parameters:

1) Its a global platform. Jazz sells in EU and US, the ANHC is a platform aimed at developing countries

2) Jazz has better interiors than ANHC and even the quality of materials used in the dash is superior than the cheap looking central console in ANHC

3) Jazz is as heavy as ANHC (quite close weight wise) so one cant say reducing price is as simple as cutting the boot.
Aseem,

1. The Jazz and the ANHC share a same platform and there's some level of component sharing as well (I do not know the % though). So, in this respect, I fail to understand why Jazz is superior. These two are on par on this count.

2. Jazz seems to have better quality ( I am no expert on plastic quality, hence the word "seem") as far as front dash and the switches and knobs are concerned. And that's it. It stops there.

The magic seats are being highlighted more than it deserves. Those are over-hyped. I observed that the rear seat cushioning thickness is bit less compared to, say, AHNC. Rear seat thigh support also seems to be inferior to AHNC. The back seat is bit more upright again compared to ANHC. A fellow BHPian and owner of Jazz had reported discomfort at the rear seats for a long distance travel in his ownership thread ( I forgot his name). If I look at the front seats and dash and compare those with the rear interior segment of the car, I feel a disconnect there. The front looks way better compared to the rear.

And how often the "magical" flexibility of magic seats will be used? How often a normal car user uses his car that he has purchased by spending eight and half lakhs to carry cargo? In my 7 year old Palio, I remember folding the rear seat completely only three to four times to carry some cargo that can't carried with rear seats in it's place. I think completely foldable rear seats like most hatchbacks would have been just fine for Jazz, thus saving the cost. I do believe that while trying to give flexibility to "magic" seats, Honda compromised the rear seat comforts.

On the other hand, ANHC interior, especially after the latest minor revisions, looks very much acceptable to me; I do not have any major gripes. Add to that the list of missing things in Jazz compared to ANHC as pointed out by Hammerhead. Those makes the ANHC interior so much more practical and livable for a day-to-day drive.

So, barring some "high" quality dash and switches and knobs and stuffs like that, I do not see a value in the quality in Jazz. So, here again the score is tilted towards ANHC.

And ANHC scores higher compared to Jazz in the following areas as well:
a. engine department
b. AT with paddle shifters being an option.
c. stability at high speed and while cornering since it has a boot
d. having a larger boot, one can carry a lot of luggage for a family vacation.
e. rear seat comfort

May be, Honda should have given the ANHC level of interior quality in Jazz and there by reducing the price (my assumption is that high quality interiors is one of reasons for Jazz being costly; the other is i-VTEC engine). The other area where Honda might have lost the plot: they have a technologically superior engine (compared to competition) but underpowered. This engine is fine enough for city running. But, on highways with 3-4 folks on board with luggage for a vacation and the AC running, this may not be the ideal one. So, being technologically superior and there by being costly but underpowered.

Final point: the City is proven brand for Honda. So, even if the ANHC is not exactly a VFM proposition and Honda is indeed charging a lot of premium for City, folks have accepted it and sales volume confirms that.

Where as, Jazz is yet to be proven to the general car buying public, especially in a segment where competition is cut throat and folks look for "more car per car" (sorry to borrow the catch line). They should not have charged the same level of premium as that of City in the beginning. They could have upgraded the car later and hiked the price if there were demands.

Sorry for a looong post guys....

Note to Jazz owners: Please do not take negatively. The Jazz is a very good car in it's own right. It has it's strengths and weaknesses.

-Pratim
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Old 23rd March 2010, 19:14   #265
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I agree with Pratim. Jazz has its strengths and weaknesses, but mostly ANHC scores over it.
In particular the rear seats of Jazz are more bench like and lack comfort on long drives. Also another point missed by many is the hazard offered by flying objects due to lack of a rear parcel tray or a rear lugguage net in Jazz, versus the safety of a seperate boot in ANHC. (An ex-collegue of mine met with a tragic accident a few years back - when he braked suddenly his hatchback for some reason, and a piece of luggage in the rear luggage compartment got thrown forward at a great speed hitting his head and injuring him FATALLY).

, I did start a similar post a few months back to start a discussion on reasons for the Jazz failure, however its life was cut short by mods stating that the issue had been already discussed in other threads. Well, the subject seems to have come back to life..
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Old 24th March 2010, 10:58   #266
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Post deleted by the Team-BHP Support : Please do NOT post one-liners that add little or no informational value to the thread. We need your co-operation to maintain the overall quality of this forum.

Please read our rules before proceeding any further.

Last edited by GTO : 8th April 2010 at 10:33.
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Old 24th March 2010, 11:36   #267
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Default Accord wins the sals ccompetition!!!

The Accord sales were 270+ as compared to the puny Jaz sales..
Must end the extravagant pricing syndrome at Honda..
Also, the quality promise even is dented now..
Would like to see some better pricing, fellas!
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Old 25th March 2010, 07:40   #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Accelerator View Post
The Accord sales were 270+ as compared to the puny Jaz sales..
Must end the extravagant pricing syndrome at Honda..
Also, the quality promise even is dented now..
Would like to see some better pricing, fellas!

Dear @Accelerator
would you please elaborate what exactly you have in mind or is it just a general observation from your viewpoint ?
cheers
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Old 6th April 2010, 21:28   #269
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Honda JAZZ, FEB-2010 Sales 233. What's the way Forward for HONDA ?-capture.png

honda managed to sell more jazz in march at 571 units as compared to 233 in feb!

but, honda is the only company to show lower sales in march2010 as compared to march last year. all other companies have shown increase in sales.
does it indicate end of honeymoon for honda?
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Old 6th April 2010, 22:03   #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by car-dent View Post
Attachment 323776 but, honda is the only company to show lower sales in march2010 as compared to march last year. all other companies have shown increase in sales.
does it indicate end of honeymoon for honda?
Glad to see that Indian customers are waking up from their crush on Honda

Hope Honda management notices this.
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