Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 28th September 2005, 18:58   #16
BHPian
 
hkanitkar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: pune
Posts: 643
Thanked: 24 Times
Default not as scary as the thread title - but surely something to look at

hi guys - that info seems like just another rumour to me.

but some time back - Doordarshan had interviewed the Chief Engineer who looked over the construction of Expressway. He stated in his interview that the design speed for expressway is 150 KPH.
( probably people with engineering background will understand this clearly.... factor of safety and all that stuff..)

This was done with keeping in mind the maximum driving speed = 120 KPH and since indian drivers are not used to drive at these speeds as well as most of the cars do not use tyres with higher speed ratings, the allowed maximum speed right now is 80 KPH.

Now somebody please tell these road builders that the "express way" is out-dated in terms of Max speeds - as we have cars which can go upto 220 - 250 KPH without any trouble.

Last edited by hkanitkar : 28th September 2005 at 18:59.
hkanitkar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th October 2005, 18:32   #17
Newbie
 
carthick99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Mumbai , India
Posts: 19
Thanked: 11 Times
Default

Here's another very scary FACT! Two weeks ago, i was on the exp-way, pouring rain and terrible traction - and guess what? Toppled Camry. Smashed RS. And watched an Accent come around the gentle right sweeper and lose complete control. Happened right in front of the cops while we were rescuing a car.

This is an area known as '62' - 'Malavali' about 5 kms from the Drive in motel (when doing bombay to pune) and is just before the last straight parallel to the tracks. All cars that smashed (and badly) were driving on the extreme right lane.

Now here's the shocker. No airbags deployed on the RS or the Camry. The Camry rear passenger - from a prominent business house - was hurt. And these cars had damaged noses and flipped once at least. Now here's my question to you all. Do you know of incidents where you your dear ones or friends have had an accident and the airbags havent popped when they should have? This is serious stuff. Ive heard of some bad RS smash-ups all over the country where the bags havent done their stuff. Nothing against the RS here - its my fav car - but with just too many incidents with no popped bags worries me.
carthick99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th October 2005, 18:39   #18
Senior - BHPian
 
drifter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,469
Thanked: 13 Times
Default

I had done the same run about a month back in a rather heavy downpour...at places there are large puddles forming...which when going at high enough speeds can cause even the best tyres to aquaplane...its probably the most likely cause of accidents in the rains on the expressway.

Seems the design is flawed...wasnt the expressway cambered a bit to let water flow onto the sides? Like the autobahns?

Drifter
drifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th October 2005, 18:51   #19
Senior - BHPian
 
adya33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pune
Posts: 1,838
Thanked: 91 Times
Default

Quote:
- but with just too many incidents with no popped bags worries me.
don't know about RS but in Accord air-bag only pops when there is force on chassie
& may be front bag only pop when there is head on collision ? & in the incidents you mentioned side bags would have been helpfule.
another thing is air-bag pop only when you have seat belts on to avoid bags smashing drivers face
adya33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th October 2005, 19:28   #20
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 70
Thanked: Once
Default

I know of 2 cases where the tyres blasted on this highway... a zen and a Honda City. However the reason given was different.... the roads are made of cement to improve the grip. In extreme summers the roads get very hot and the rubber of the tyres stick to the road, causing it to blast.

A friend of mine saw half the tyre of zen tyre stuck to the road and the car smashed in the side railing. Not sure whether the above mentioned accidents happened during summers or not.
Sumed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th October 2005, 12:06   #21
Newbie
 
carthick99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Mumbai , India
Posts: 19
Thanked: 11 Times
Exclamation Recent Exp-way Accidents - Camry

These accidents happend in the wet. So it's not tyre burst. It's aquaplaning.

The Camry has side and curtain bags and flipped thrice on its nose! Shouldnt all that be impact enough for the bags to deploy? Esp when you are buying a car for that much and expect it to be safe at least.

The business house may take toyota to court....!!!
carthick99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th October 2005, 12:25   #22
Newbie
 
carthick99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Mumbai , India
Posts: 19
Thanked: 11 Times
Default

Oh and i forgot to mention - both driver and passenger in the Camry were buckled in - the only reason they survived i guess and the RS guy was belted too...
carthick99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th October 2005, 21:40   #23
Senior - BHPian
 
lamborghini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 4,636
Thanked: 1,263 Times
Default

Off Topic but Steeroid, i have never driven for more then 5 km at a stretch and that too was a long time ago (last year i think) and i am merely a passenger in the car when it was being driven at high speeds and being a car enthusiast my day was ruined on hearing this.
But can nyone explain the mondeo incident when a mondeo's tyre burst and the car crashed and all the passengers were killed (Surprising isn't it - Mondeo is meant to be one of the safer cars)? The mondeo comes with Continentals the last time i checked and teh car was being driven at high speeds.
Also, it could be that the driver had a puncture and put Tubes in a tubeless tyre making it unsafe.
The drivers have done it to our Palio (Again offtopic but can the palio take 185/65/R14? The org. size was 175/65/R14. I mean take it w/o any mods.) as i found out recently when the car had a puncture.
lamborghini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2008, 14:52   #24
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Karnataka, India
Posts: 221
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carthick99 View Post
These accidents happend in the wet. So it's not tyre burst. It's aquaplaning.

The Camry has side and curtain bags and flipped thrice on its nose! Shouldnt all that be impact enough for the bags to deploy? Esp when you are buying a car for that much and expect it to be safe at least.

The business house may take toyota to court....!!!
Like most cars, the camry does not have a rollover sensor. Therefore, the curtain airbags will not deploy unless the door side impact sensors detect intrusion. By the way, Toyota offers Americans a driver knee-airbag but not Indians.

As shown below, Ford offers rollover sensors in some of their cars:


FACT SHEET: ADVANCED ROLLOVER PROTECTION
Safety Canopy
Ford was the first in the industry to offer rollover deploying side curtain air bags, known as Safety Canopy™, beginning with the 2002-1/2 Ford Explorer and Mercury Mountaineer.
Today, the Safety Canopy™ with rollover sensors – which helps protect vehicle occupants during side impact collisions and rollover accidents – is available on nearly all Ford Motor Company SUVs, and on certain cars and vans.
* Safety Canopy™ is standard equipment on the 2006 Lincoln Navigator, Mercury Monterey, Volvo C70 and XC90, Land Rover LR3 and Range Rover Sport.
* Safety Canopy™ is available on the 2006 Ford Explorer, Escape, Escape Hybrid, Expedition, Freestyle, Freestar, Five Hundred, Mercury Montego, Mariner, Mariner Hybrid, Mountaineer, and Mazda Tribute.


Source: Safety Canopy Rollover System From Ford

Unless I'm mistaken, other manufacturers offer rollover sensors only on their SUV's and convertibles and NOT on their regular cars which is a pity. Even the S-class, with its pre-safe system, and the Volvo S80 do not have rollover sensors as far as I know. As a result, it is better to buy a good-quality SUV like the XC90 or Tiguan which has all the safety features of a car plus the rollover sensor along with a strong, reinforced roof.
Dose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2008, 15:08   #25
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 384
Thanked: 7 Times
Default

On the subject of the Expressway let me give you an observation. I happen to live literally adjacent to the Expressway as it starts to taper down towards Kalamboli just before the Panvel exits beside the Pune-Mumbai lanes. Every alternate night my sleep is disturbed with a truck tyre bursting and some of the vehicles have rolled down too.
I have a feeling this stretch has more than an evenshare of the tyre bursts on the route. Feel that the tyres are getting sufficiently hot by the time the Khalapur exit is passed for the vehicles coming in to Mumbai and this is leading to the tyre bursts. Definitely speed is not the issue atleast in the case of the trucks.

Btw today morning around 5.45 there was some major accident blocking all incoming traffic to Mumbai upto 7.00 AM. just near the Panvel exit.

Last edited by emkay456 : 16th October 2008 at 15:10.
emkay456 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2008, 15:30   #26
Senior - BHPian
 
architect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Ghaziabad, U. P
Posts: 1,274
Thanked: 443 Times
Default

Guys, there is no point in dismissing the ideas of the starter of this thread because there are various reasons behind tyre blowout. The movement of air between the grooves of the tyre treads and between the pattern formed by the rakes could create heat build-ups (although whether they would do so to the point of blowing up a tyre is debatable), just as it creates huge amounts of noise as well.

That said, my 2 cents on Road / Highway building:

1. Making even a neighbourhood residential road is an exacting science which requires correct use of material / specifications / detailing to ensure that the road remains at level (without undulations to disturb the design camber) and retains its surface quality and coefficient of friction. Making a highway involves more sophisiticated design and supervision.

2. The quality of the top surface of the road is largely determined by what is below it. If there is any negligence during making the base (GSB & WBM and what not), the top surface won't stay put for too long.

3. One of the reasons why concrete roads are not preferred in India is heat build-up. Otherwise they have been proven to save upto 10% fuel for cars using them.

A simple case in point is the DND Flyway in Delhi. the originally constructed road surfaced lasted without any problem for 6 years or so with (I think) the best road surface that was ever made in India (thanks to NTBCL and their South Sfrican JV). Any repair done after that (as well as the new branch to Mayur Vihar) is an absolute shame for the Rs 20 you pay for driving 6-odd-kms through it.
architect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2008, 15:44   #27
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Karnataka, India
Posts: 221
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by emkay456 View Post
Feel that the tyres are getting sufficiently hot by the time the Khalapur exit is passed for the vehicles coming in to Mumbai and this is leading to the tyre bursts. Definitely speed is not the issue atleast in the case of the trucks.
Do Indian trucks have steel belted radial tyres? If they do, and the tyres are underinflated, the heat buildup can accelerate the failure due to design and manufacturing weaknesses. Low tyre pressure was one of the causes of the Firestone-Ford, tread separation-rollover incidents in the U.S.

Correct tyre pressure is important to prevent tyres from prematurely failing. Also, iirc, driving over 161 kmph (100 mph) for sustained periods of time, like on the Autobahn, requires a 5 PSI increase in cold tyre pressure.

For Indian conditions, I find that checking, using a good gauge, cold tyre pressure once a week is a minimum requirement unless the vehicle is equipped with a TPMS.

Source: Tire Tread Separations, Defects and Blowouts
Dose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2008, 17:17   #28
Senior - BHPian
 
lamborghini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 4,636
Thanked: 1,263 Times
Default

Here's a thought guys,
My driver and me were discussing the expressway one day and he said that the reason the tyre bursts may occur is when heavy braking takes place.
As most of the cars don't have ABS, when a person brakes, the tyres heat up and they blow.
Could this be a reason?
lamborghini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2008, 17:17   #29
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Sahil's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 5,202
Thanked: 2,094 Times
Default

Thank god for Run-flat-tires Or does this mysterious "sound" manage to blow those up too !
Sahil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2008, 18:02   #30
Ram
Senior - BHPian
 
Ram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Singapore, Mumbai, Nagpur
Posts: 2,165
Thanked: 144 Times
Default

Maybe we're missing the most obvious reason:

The car is being driven by a hot-shot complete idiot, whose expensive car affordability far exceeds his skill and sense to drive it.

When the heavy monsoon downpour reduces visibility, I've seen suicidal idiots in big sedans on the expressway, turn on their Xenons, foglights and hazard flashers and (would you believe it) actually speed up!!

One would imagine, they have a deathwish!

Then why wonder, when they manage to flip the big sedan and injure or kill themselves and their passengers?

Such idiots will manage to roll a Ferrari, why a Camry?

Come to think of it, even that has happened! Hasn't it?
Ram is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mumbai-Pune express way is dangerous at night time pawan_pullarwar Street Experiences 30 19th February 2016 00:46
Beware- Horrific incident on the noida express way near AMITY / Lotus Valley whatcanthisbe Shifting gears 22 20th September 2008 21:36
"ZEN" to be relaunched:Fact or Rumour?? rohan_fonseca The Indian Car Scene 32 10th August 2007 14:23


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 06:19.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks