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Old 24th March 2010, 13:28   #136
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To put things in perspective, here is an ongoing discussion . Another T badge, another forum. But this is a watch forum, not an automobile one:

Talk About Being On The Hot Seat!!! - Watchuseek, world's largest & highest trafficked Watch Forum site
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Old 24th March 2010, 13:35   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapezio View Post
To do a serious investigation will take at least weeks let alone days!
IMO, to finalize an investigation should take two weeks max simply because Nano is not a technologically intensive machine. They would by now know what caused the fire and if not, they're not going to know it at all. With a burnt car, very little of the components would be found to be analyzed and coupled with the absence of sophisticated FDRs(as in aircraft), this would render analysis difficult but also quick.

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Originally Posted by CPH View Post
A handful of cars having such problems is not a valid reason to render a car unsafe....How do we know that it is because of Tata.
Well, exactly how many cars would need to catch fire to render a car unsafe...would 20 or 30 be enough? IMO, one car on fire is good enough to prompt a very serious investigation. And how do we know it is NOT because of Tata?
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A child could have been in the showroom and stuff something into a vent. Children love to do things like it. Someone has got an axe to grind with the dealer. People do weird things.
This is really far fetched. And what would a customer delivery car be sitting in the showroom for and would there be no QC checks before delivery?

Quote:
Believe me I am not talking lightly like a certain 19 year old who knows it all. There is much more at stake. What some people also forget is that if a company goes down under or looses a massive share in the market, many families are affected.
It seems to me that no one knows it all in this situation, whether it's me or a 19 year old or an expert such as yourself (taking your word for it). Please do not misinterpret someone's posts as a personal affront and the age factor would not matter. It is strange to see so much concern about families affected by a company's loss in market than possibility of other families burning in flawed cars.

Quote:
But a fact is that not a single person had any physical injury experienced driving or being driven in a Nano. Many people died in other cars paossibly in other Tatas due to design faults.
So is it necessary that someone had got injured before we give weightage to an incident?

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Originally Posted by CPH View Post
Fire sells.
...If I come round and murder your neighbour it will be soon forgotten in the news. Ratan Tata has a problem with his product and the media is blessed with something as fear instilling as a fire - hey, it makes head lines.
Of course fire sells, as it should, if it is likely to affect human life.
Murder equated with a possibly dangerous consumer product (likely to be used by millions of people)? What kind of analogy is this?

Guys, can we chill please?

The fire must be investigated but let's just not write off the Nano in a hurry yet.
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Old 24th March 2010, 13:48   #138
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Heard from my friend that a brand new Nano driven out of Concorde Bangalore yesterday, caught fire and burnt to ashes. The vehicle was driven by one of concorde's own drivers as the owner of the new car does not know driving that well. He also said that the news was in local dailys today.
Can any one here confirm that?
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Old 24th March 2010, 13:51   #139
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That sounds like an exact replica of the Mumbai incident, and therefore very very fishy! A mere rumour, I bet.
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Old 24th March 2010, 13:52   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n_mouli View Post
Heard from my friend that a brand new Nano driven out of Concorde Bangalore yesterday, caught fire and burnt to ashes. The vehicle was driven by one of concorde's own drivers as the owner of the new car does not know driving that well. He also said that the news was in local dailys today.
Can any one here confirm that?
It was Concord in Mumbai not in bangalore and same incidence is being discussed here
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Old 24th March 2010, 15:51   #141
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Originally Posted by RajaTaurus View Post

Finally, I see in CPH's posts kind of arrogance towards our fellow members, as if we are completely ignorant about cars and auto industry and as if we have never been outside India nor driven 'exotic' cars at speeds!
Dear CPH, my humble request to you - people here are well informed, quite experienced and above all top class mannered. And we expect you to reciprocate the same in your posts. Please.
You fail to understand why I mention other car manufacturers? If you read my comments properly and not just what you want t5o read of them then it becomes self explanatory.

You using a number of 'ifs' and do not call this speculation.

You claim that Tata shoul..., which I would call rather arrogant.

Tata does investigate. There is a lot at stake. You claim to be well inlformed? I don'T think you understand the whole process that is involved.

You talking about what happens if people die in the future. This is the problem that Tata currently investigates. But in a professional way and not the waay you thinking. BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO GET IT RIGHT IN ORDER TO PREVENT PEOPLE DYING.

If they come to the wrong conclusion PEOPLE WILL DIE. Forensic examination is extremely difficult.

And the claim some of the possible points to investigate are far fetched is rather arrogant when such things have happened in the past. This is how forensics work.

You claim that you are well informed?

India are set procedures as there anywhere else in the world to investigate. This car has become a police matter, which means certain procedures have to be followed. The owner wants to supposedly make compensation claims, which make it necessary for Mr. Tata to make sure that the truth comes out.

Being well informed you certainly can tell me where the car currently is and what is being done to it!

From the people who do not try to see both sides all it can be heard is 'WE' and 'I'.

I don't speak for me noe for us.

You accuse Tata not to do anything. What an arrogant accusation!!!

You are the one who is creating a problem for the product without knowing the causes. You pronounce someone guilty before the trial! I think you have to re-think your position.

Thanks for taking this totally out of context:

It is strange to see so much concern about families affected by a company's loss in market than possibility of other families burning in flawed cars.

Would you say this too if your families lost their job under such circumstances? Who are you to tell that I am not concerned for the families that might die in cars (if you had read my posts properly you wouldn't have made this statement)?

Unlike you I am looking at all parties that could be affected.

Quote from Amartya:

Four cars have had issues related to fire, three of them have been diagnosed and the fourth one is pending investigation.

Tata didn't do anything, did they? Thta's why tey diagnosed it by doing nothing! A very arrogant attitude to render nothing an investigation done and solving the problem.

@ Delta Wing - You quoted me:
Originally Posted by CPH
A handful of cars having such problems is not a valid reason to render a car unsafe....How do we know that it is because of Tata.


A handful of cars having such problems is not a valid reason to render a car unsafe....How do we know that it is because of Tata.

Your reply was:

Well, exactly how many cars would need to catch fire to render a car unsafe...would 20 or 30 be enough? IMO, one car on fire is good enough to prompt a very serious investigation. And how do we know it is NOT because of Tata?


This fire is being investigated and I did nowhere ever state that it didn't need investigation. Of corsue it needs investigation because lives are at risk if it is caused by a design fault. But as long as it is an isolated incident nobody can render it unsafe. And I repeat myself:

If it is a design fault, the cause must be found and solved. Any change would be useless unless the culprit is changed.

I have my own range of products I produce and I follow any claim whether serious or not to make sure that the product works and/or doesn'T do any harm to anyone. To have a good reputation is a life insurance. Tata knows that too.

And how do we know it is NOT because of Tata?

Of course we don't know. This is what the investigation will bring out. I asked the opposite question, because quite a few people have pronounced Tata already guilty without proof.

Someone claimed that an investigatzion would not take longer than 2 weeks. First of all this is not correct (chemica analysis of residues from burning can take much longer as casn do other procedures). And secondly if an investigation takes 2 weeks how comes that people a day or so later already jumping up and down?

______________________________

A few people have commenterd on a similar line like me and the interestingly tried to tell to wait. The ones who have the least knowledge what is going on are the gretast experts and some of them call the more informed arrogant!
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Old 24th March 2010, 16:05   #142
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How can we know if Tata has taken up the investigation yet? Was there any update regarding this in the media or else where?
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Old 24th March 2010, 16:35   #143
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@ CPH. Your explainations are quite plausible & are reasonable.

You have not owned a tata car, not seen things from the owner's perspective, of how tata operates. No reading reviews does not cut it. Buy the Yellow nano, own it for three years & then lets see if you are as enthusiastic then as you are now
There are so many things which cannot be quite put in words which explain why so many feel this way.

You seem to know the auto business well. Tata will certainly 'respond' and 'manage' this situation, and everthing that they are required to do by law. Still doesnt help the happless user. Just go ask varunroy or drpullockaran
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Old 24th March 2010, 16:35   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funkykar View Post
How can we know if Tata has taken up the investigation yet? Was there any update regarding this in the media or else where?
Yes. They have order an inquiry into this and their spoke person agree that unlike the earlier two cases this warrants serious investigation.

Tata orders probe into Nano fire — Autoblog

Somebody was saying that investigation can be completed in a week! Have you tried getting a vehicle released from the police in India ever? That will often take more than a week dear.

What else can we expect?

@greenhorn

Who has owned the Tata Nano for three years in this forum? My family have owned a Tata for eight years as well and I can suggest you to direct the questions related to ownership to me also.

Last edited by Trapezio : 24th March 2010 at 16:40.
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Old 24th March 2010, 17:05   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
@ CPH. Your explainations are quite plausible & are reasonable.

You have not owned a tata car, not seen things from the owner's perspective, of how tata operates. No reading reviews does not cut it. Buy the Yellow nano, own it for three years & then lets see if you are as enthusiastic then as you are now
There are so many things which cannot be quite put in words which explain why so many feel this way.

You seem to know the auto business well. Tata will certainly 'respond' and 'manage' this situation, and everthing that they are required to do by law. Still doesnt help the happless user. Just go ask varunroy or drpullockaran
You are absolutely right, I never owned a Tata but I have owned other cars.

I never will buy a Mercedes again with all the problems we had in the family with them and the help we got when problems needed sorting.

A friend of mine is working for a company running fleets. They chucked out over 200 Fords and replacede them by a different brand because of the frustration they had with issues not being solved for year, which cost the company a lot of money.

I feel sorry for everyone who has got problems and quite happily help people to enforce their rights when they are being left standing in the rain. I am not on the side of Tata, but neither am I on the side of the car owner.

How wrong all the big shouters are with their 'ifs' and 'Tata should...'
proves the post after yours. Just proving the point I tried to make but got flamed for it.

And believe me if I have to come to the conclusion that Tata is not willing to do anything when they are responsible I will stand up in public against them. Not even a thread of being taken to court will stop me.

I called the Fiat CEO in public an idiot and don't regret to have done so because he does not care about anything creating too many problems, which might lead to the closure of Alfa Romeo wthout whom Ferrari never would have existed.

People claim nothing is happening despite shouting and raving. If this is the case - why shouting and raving?

The ones shouting and raving playing into the hands of the other side.

The ones who came up saying that Tata should....Tata can turn round and say:

"Sorry, you can read in the media that we started the investigation."

How silly can they make look the shouters this way!?!

Why not doing it that something different, which might change things?

My way of action would be to wait to see what is going to happen > colating facts > develop a strategy > strike.

This is organised people power.

Shouting and ranting without facts is as good as hitting the wind or wasting time.

He who waits....
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Old 24th March 2010, 17:36   #146
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@ trapezio. From your response I imagine that you haven't had much issues. There is a concept in software development that TestsCantProveTheAbsenceOfBugs . Just because you have not faced issues does not mean that others dont.
@ CPH. None of us want to organize against tata. We are just expressing our (probably prejudiced) POV on this forum. And our views matter to others.

Last edited by greenhorn : 24th March 2010 at 17:40.
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Old 24th March 2010, 17:38   #147
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Catching fire on brand new cars is very bad. Accept that.

But blaming squarely on a manufacturer for that and expecting the manufacturer to own it up and rectify it immediately is far fetched.

At this point in time no one knows what is the issue. Tatas have done what they are supposed to do. Initiated an investigation. But even before the announced it on the newspapers, we started assuming that Tatas are not reacting. No one goes to a newspaper before they do some primary analysis.

IMO there is over reaction towards TATAs. Tatas have a vested interest. Nano is poised to become one of the largest selling cars. They know that any damage to this reputation of an affordable car for the masses will be a big blow. They know that however cheap the car may be, people will not buy if its a death trap. Hence in order to save their business and reputation they would do the needful, if there is anything wrond on their side.

I have been a Tata Employee for more than 10 years. I know the extent of care they take on their employees. I believe in their commitment to the people of India and the society. I have experienced that as an employee and seen the initiatives they have taken for Indian welfare. Hence I believe that they will do all in their capacity to correct this, if there is a problem from their side.
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Old 24th March 2010, 17:46   #148
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I am really wondering whether it is Nano bashing or Tata/CPH bashing thread.

But, must laud CPH's efforts to have fought back on a point on point basis, obviously with the contributions from other members when he has been temporarily offline.

I understand that over 1/5 of Safari owners have bad experience, but does it means that all those owning Nano or Manza or Indica have bad experiences with their cars. Yes initial lot of Indicas were forgettable. But hasn't V2 changed the view of Indians. Of course this is the reason majority of us are now rushing to buy the Fiat sourced diesel engined cars.

All we need to do is to base our opinion on facts rather than gossips.
There have been cases of lemon cars from almost all other car brands. But have those brands been under such scathing attack from all quarters. Merc has improved quality only in past two years, Audis are still not considered reliable yet people are yearning to own them because of the premium image, as compared to Tata with Truck-image.

There ought to be self-introspection amongst all of us to clear our bias before we argue, otherwise we will fight on rather than conduct a meaningful discussion which is the essence of any forum.

I do not think the admins & mods would like to promote the negative aura of this topic overall.

BTW 4 Nanos out of (almost 25k units) delivered till date means 99.984% without the burning Nano syndrome. Isn't it enough to quell the fears of existing/prospective Nano owners?
Though Tata cannot evade responsibility & they have in fact started an inquiry into the matter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CPH View Post
You are absolutely right, I never owned a Tata but I have owned other cars.

I never will buy a Mercedes again with all the problems we had in the family with them and the help we got when problems needed sorting.

A friend of mine is working for a company running fleets. They chucked out over 200 Fords and replacede them by a different brand because of the frustration they had with issues not being solved for year, which cost the company a lot of money.

I feel sorry for everyone who has got problems and quite happily help people to enforce their rights when they are being left standing in the rain. I am not on the side of Tata, but neither am I on the side of the car owner.

How wrong all the big shouters are with their 'ifs' and 'Tata should...'
proves the post after yours. Just proving the point I tried to make but got flamed for it.

And believe me if I have to come to the conclusion that Tata is not willing to do anything when they are responsible I will stand up in public against them. Not even a thread of being taken to court will stop me.

I called the Fiat CEO in public an idiot and don't regret to have done so because he does not care about anything creating too many problems, which might lead to the closure of Alfa Romeo wthout whom Ferrari never would have existed.

People claim nothing is happening despite shouting and raving. If this is the case - why shouting and raving?

The ones shouting and raving playing into the hands of the other side.

The ones who came up saying that Tata should....Tata can turn round and say:

"Sorry, you can read in the media that we started the investigation."

How silly can they make look the shouters this way!?!

Why not doing it that something different, which might change things?

My way of action would be to wait to see what is going to happen > colating facts > develop a strategy > strike.

This is organised people power.

Shouting and ranting without facts is as good as hitting the wind or wasting time.

He who waits....
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Old 24th March 2010, 19:37   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car&me View Post
I have been a Tata Employee for more than 10 years.
Now you can tell them that the Nano is even defended in the UK.

I would even offer prepare for introduction and to market the Nano in Europe, but only if I get a yellow one.

BTW I am serious.
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Old 24th March 2010, 20:27   #150
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I understand CPH's logic ,
He had bitter experiences with Mercedes and had vowed never to own then ,Likewise some of us have same bitter experiences with Tata product, That is the reason we are getting emotional due to the past / present experiences with Tata ( indica / Safari ) . However I have seen that in last 2 year users have experienced better quality on Manza & Vista so I hope that these are isolated cases.

I am sure that CPH will offer unconditional support to Tata Nano users if these problems persist further like he has done for other brands.

Till that time investigation are complete we need to "Agree to disagree"

Last edited by Kool_Kid : 24th March 2010 at 20:32.
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