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Old 25th March 2010, 00:00   #166
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well one way to tell that whether a car (Toyota) does not have acceleration issues is if it has made it into the accidents in India thread.
There simply have not been complaints in India and Indian Cars are isolated from the so called "problem".
Im sure if there is any complaint regarding the above ,the company will take swift action.


@Airbender
I think you are seriously going off topic. We Are Discussing Flaming Nano's here
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Old 25th March 2010, 00:06   #167
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[quote=vinaydas;1801698]well one way to tell that whether a car (Toyota) does not have acceleration issues is if it has made it into the accidents in India thread.
There simply have not been complaints in India and Indian Cars are isolated from the so called "problem".
Im sure if there is any complaint regarding the above ,the company will take swift action.

As if they did it in other markets!
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Old 25th March 2010, 00:11   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funkykar View Post
Things have changed, so has time. Compitition changes all. TATA are not as bad as they were before. They are a lot better these days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkykar View Post

Some people prefer to live in past than present.

TATA should take all precautionary measures. I am confidant they will. On the other hand if it is done by vested interests as in case of singur will the government act to find out. I really doubt it.

Moreover, to keep the NANO spirits high, dont you guys think, logically TATA would and should take all precautionary measures to fix any issues and keep the ball rolling.

TATA wouldnt let the NANO die.
TATA should take all precautionary measures. I am confidant they will. On the other hand if it is done by vested interests as in case of singur will the government act to find out. I really doubt it.


Criticism is always good but it should be constructive.

Last edited by airbender : 25th March 2010 at 00:13.
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Old 25th March 2010, 01:05   #169
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Got this link with the pic.

Tata Nano bursts into flames | Auto Express News | News | Auto Express
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Old 25th March 2010, 01:08   #170
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Originally Posted by vinaydas View Post
well one way to tell that whether a car (Toyota) does not have acceleration issues is if it has made it into the accidents in India thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinaydas View Post
There simply have not been complaints in India and Indian Cars are isolated from the so called "problem".
Im sure if there is any complaint regarding the above ,the company will take swift action.


Do you mean you expect a recall only when you see a accident. That means in every market Toyota operates, you expect to see a accident before recall. That's doesnot make sense for me. Vinay your logic about recalls is not right. If a automaker finds fault with a component they recall all the cars using that component irrespective of geography. Toyota recalled all the cars sharing that supplier from developed markets but chose not to do it in developing markets. Why?

Your initail quote was answered by funkykar:
TATA are not as bad as they were before. They are a lot better these days.

This has been echoed by lot of recent Tata owners. It's only people like you who try to kill the debate using that as a silver bullet. Again I am not saying they are good in service. They still have to improve.
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Old 25th March 2010, 07:38   #171
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While the probe is on and they come out with conclusions and quality check solutions for the problem ( I doubt they would be able to figure out from the car that got burnt), shouldnt Tata sell fire extinguishers as accessories or existing owners buy them so that they can extinguish when its in the smoking stage
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Old 25th March 2010, 08:13   #172
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What is so different about Indian roads or Camry's sold in India? Do we have any national database of problems reported on a particular car in India. Or do you happen to have access to Toyota's secure database?
How can you make a statement camry's do not have problems in India. If a car manufactured on a particular line or a plant has a problem, auto makers are supposed to recall all the cars manufactured from that. Why is that division is only made between developed and developing or under developed countries?
I have no great for love for Toyota now that their recent antics in the US have come to light. I have no great respect for Tata either, having worked inside some of their companies for over ten years and seen their interest in built in quality, or even business ethics. Indeed, I think that all large corporations only work in their self interest. If they can get away with murder, they all will. If they are ethical it is only because of business compulsions.
That said, here are some thoughts and theories with reference to the recall subject in developed markets. Recalls have a cost, and if such a practice is to be followed, then ultimately this will find its way in the price of each car on some statistically calculated basis. This does not happen in India, and is one of the reasons why cars are sold so cheap here. They may not appear as cheap as they really are, because the price today contains a high amount of taxes in it at various levels. If one were to strip out the tax content of a car sold in the US from one sold in India, the price difference would be a lot more than what it is on paper today. This is also why the cars here do not have a lot of features that the ones overseas have. As the Indian standard of living goes up, things will change, and we will also have to start facing the silly things like class action lawsuits for things like personal injuries caused by defective products and services like loose carpets. But we will also have to pay for these in the price of the products, because no company will plan to make a loss. Product liability issues have driven many companies out of such businesses like elevators, and even aircraft manufacture because the liabilities can be huge enough to bankrupt companies.
We can't want a one lakh car as well as a recall policy for it - the arithmetic just won't add up.
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Old 25th March 2010, 09:23   #173
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To answer airbender's big question "WHY NANO" -
1.Nano is world's cheapest car. Expect logically to have least quality/ safety equipment on it.
2. Nano is supposed to be a replacement/ upgrade of two wheeler in India, on a massive scale. This car is going to be driven by mostly those who just know the car has five wheels and a key to start and three pedals under his legs for running it or stopping it and not more than that. In other words, the 'layman', or 'the 'laywoman' - like those 2 ladies in the shop. These people don't read Auto-forums /Auto-Mags / watch Auto-shows to get themselves educated about the 'worlds auto scene'.
Remember the potential buyer is scared and that is a fact. We can pour in thousands figures and facts to substantiate that this is not abnormal / it happens world-wide / even most expensive cars catch fire / etc. all would not hold water to alleviate the basic fear factor that has already crept in the normal buyers and is fast spreading.
That's why Tatas have lot more work to do than Lamborginis or Mercs.
Why go after Nano, because this is the concern of Millions of people.

Last edited by RajaTaurus : 25th March 2010 at 09:25.
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Old 25th March 2010, 09:51   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RajaTaurus View Post
To answer airbender's big question "WHY NANO" -
1.Nano is world's cheapest car. Expect logically to have least quality/ safety equipment on it.
2. Nano is supposed to be a replacement/ upgrade of two wheeler in India, on a massive scale. This car is going to be driven by mostly those who just know the car has five wheels and a key to start and three pedals under his legs for running it or stopping it and not more than that. In other words, the 'layman', or 'the 'laywoman' - like those 2 ladies in the shop. These people don't read Auto-forums /Auto-Mags / watch Auto-shows to get themselves educated about the 'worlds auto scene'.
Remember the potential buyer is scared and that is a fact. We can pour in thousands figures and facts to substantiate that this is not abnormal / it happens world-wide / even most expensive cars catch fire / etc. all would not hold water to alleviate the basic fear factor that has already crept in the normal buyers and is fast spreading.
That's why Tatas have lot more work to do than Lamborginis or Mercs.
Why go after Nano, because this is the concern of Millions of people.
I agree that layman and laywoman would not be reading auto magazines and forums. And may be that they are also prone to be affected more by rumours and hearsay.

In that case, as a t-bhpian and someone who is more "educated about world's auto scene" than a lay man or lay woman one could try to educate or clarify to those lay folks. Or at the least discuss constructively in the forum about how to stop these stupid rumours. On the contrary it is a pity that many in the forum are adding fuel to the fire (heh! pun intended).

I hope all would agree that knowingly TATA would not make a car (or a bus) that catches fire. Already it is understood that the earlier case of buses is a conspiracy. So, lets wait until whatever investigation that is going on is over before accusing TATA.
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Old 25th March 2010, 11:13   #175
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[quote]
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Originally Posted by CPH View Post
Would you say this too if your families lost their job under such circumstances? Who are you to tell that I am not concerned for the families that might die in cars (if you had read my posts properly you wouldn't have made this statement)?
Unlike you I am looking at all parties that could be affected.
Would you say what you have been saying if it were your Nano that was burning? Families losing jobs, man, you make it sound so dramatic. But fat chance of that happening in this country where Warrren Anderson can get away with the worst ever industrial disaster at Bhopal. Why even bring a distant and sentimental issue like people losing their jobs when we are discussing preliminaries of the incident of a car on fire, as if livelihoods under threat were a valid excuse against retribution for possible manufacturing defects?

Quote:
...because quite a few people have pronounced Tata already guilty without proof.
That is wrong definitely but given the consumer protection in this country, a little pressure does not hurt. So long as Tata do the investigation and produce safety assurances to avoid more fires, it is fine.

Quote:
Someone claimed that an investigatzion would not take longer than 2 weeks. First of all this is not correct (chemica analysis of residues from burning can take much longer as casn do other procedures). And secondly if an investigation takes 2 weeks how comes that people a day or so later already jumping up and down?
That someone is me and I stick to my conviction because have seen my share of complicated accidents and the investigations with the results. Utterance of technical words like 'chemical analysis' and 'other procedures' does not take them longer to complete. It is the corporate excuse to shove things out of public memory by delaying things. People will jump up and down all they want at any time, who are you to tell people otherwise, considering your jumping rants against Toyota and Mercedes? It's fine in US where the govt has more stringent norms for carmakers but in India, unless people jump, many or most deviations would go unnoticed, let alone accounted. People will jump about the Nano, because it is hailed as the people's car whereas issues with a Merceds or a Honda might not cause so much of public outcry since half the Indian public wouldn't even know and care for these brands. Declaring and making the world's cheapest car is a double edged sword with laurels for the effort and lashings for the smallest failures and like it or not, Tata will have to face it. So rather than bashing members of the forum just for the sake of putting them down for their rightful opinions, it would be appreciated if people could present more facts about this incident, if they know them.

To repeat my first post, we need to chill and let some preliminary investigation be completed before taking sides. Before that, it is rather pointless to either defend/attack Tata or the Nano.

Last edited by Delta Wing : 25th March 2010 at 11:26.
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Old 25th March 2010, 11:39   #176
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There is no question that safety of a car is paramount. But if one watches closely, when a similar issue arises wrt a European or Japanese marque, the tone of the posts will be "incredible this should be happening to this brand" whereas when it involves TATA it is "we have known all along this will happen"! Talk of double standards!
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Old 25th March 2010, 11:47   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
There is no question that safety of a car is paramount. But if one watches closely, when a similar issue arises wrt a European or Japanese marque, the tone of the posts will be "incredible this should be happening to this brand" whereas when it involves TATA it is "we have known all along this will happen"! Talk of double standards!
Here is another take on this - this reaction is just the current state of the brand perception in people's mind, coming out their brand experience to date.
One does not see as many Toyotas in India with issues as one sees Tatas - far far fewer and I doubt that anyone will dispute that. That is what leads to the brand perception, and triggers the consequent comments.
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Old 25th March 2010, 13:12   #178
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Tata's 'sorry' just won't do, says Nano owner

According to the vehicle's Acknowledgement Delivery Note, the year of manufacture has been shown as 2009, but Tata's spokesperson, Deba-shish Ray, had said that the car was actually manufactured in 2008.

"It must also be probed how and why Tata and Concorde gave delivery of a defective car. I want the entire incident to be investigated and criminal action taken against officials of Tata Motors and Concorde," Sawant said.

This is really disgusting...
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Old 25th March 2010, 13:23   #179
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Whoa, a 2008 "Pre production car". Tata may have fixed the fire problem, but older 2008 nanos which were not supposed to be given to customers(only there for dealer testing), may have this problem,
This also exposes another problem with concorde motors. Probably they are selling of the "test" vehicles as new ones and actually cheating customers.
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Old 25th March 2010, 13:31   #180
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Can anyone cite a 100% similar burnout of any car straight out of the showroom and within hours? I am just curious. My perception is that therein lies the gravity of the event and the consequent uproar, disbelief and disenchantment.
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