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Old 25th March 2010, 17:57   #211
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Well I did not get the logic of him being an insurance agent. Who would like to see his new car in flames just for the sake of depreciated value? On top of that the poor soul was sitting on passenger sit and was driven around.

If the car is really from a pre production batch then Concorde is in trouble for sure for selling it to a customer without his concern. Well I am not sure but is Concorde partly owned by TATA? I remember something this sort vaguely.

Looking at other people (drpullacharan) who fought with TATA for a faulty indica for 10 years, I pity this man. May god give him courage to fight back.
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Old 25th March 2010, 17:59   #212
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@CPH .. people in India are so much frustrated with TATA that no one will see reason beyond a certain amount of patience .

Are you supporting TATA just because they are more european than Indian ?
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Old 25th March 2010, 18:02   #213
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Originally Posted by RajaTaurus View Post
CPH, Now you sound exacly like an Auto Industry person. It is the buyer's job(!?) to check all the papers and not the duty of the seller to make sure all papers are correct?
Not to mention its okay to accuse the buyer with no evidence but so much as hinting at the seller being at fault is sacrilegious. Ain't that right, CPH?
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Old 25th March 2010, 18:04   #214
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1. and 2. would be irrelevant. He signed some papers that state certain things. If he checked the details we would know. If he didn't check them then he didn't do his job. As the owner it is his duty to mkae sure that the paers are correct. This goes in every country in the world.
A third of India cannot read or write. Does that mean they should not buy a car just because they would not know what they are signing or whether the papers are correct. It's a seller's job and in this case Tata, with all their talk about ethics, to ensure that the papers were correct and that a regular production car is delivered and not a pre-production one. And oh, Concorde Motors is owned by Tata.
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Old 25th March 2010, 18:07   #215
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Selling a pre-production unit that may have production flaws sounds criminal to me. I don't care if that's the way it is in Europe, but Tata should not be doing it here if this is true.


First you say baseless allegations should not be made against Tata and the Nano. And now you yourself are speculating about the motives of a person who barely managed to escape from a flaming wreck. Please try and be a little consistent. The car was headed to LIC colony, so we can safely assume he works in the life insurance industry and not car insurance. Or do you think he was trying to collect on his life insurance policy?
Every car that leaves the factory is being checked. Pre-production cars are usually not cars that have major defects. This in most cases is ironed out when the test cars are being built. Building test cars and building cars on the conveyor belt shows different criteria. This is why pre-production is very important.

This particular incident is an isolated case. It is the first Nano to have a fire from the engine compartment. That your emotions are heatd about I do understand, but why can't a pre-production model not be sold. Production models can have as many flaws as a pre-production model. The 2 biggest re-calls show tis quite clearly (Toyota and Mercedes).

What I also know (I have seen it often enough) is that pre-production models do not sell for a while (maybe because of colour or spec) and when certain parts are needed, which aren't available that they are being taken out of the showroom. When the part to be changed arrives they fit the new part to the car in the showroom.

Also it has to be said that every single car that is sold needs to be PDId by a dealer technician.

My local Abarth dealer (one of 16 in the country) that is a Fiat dealer as well has got an Abarth trained technician who doesn't PDI them anymore on request of the saels person. The reason for it was too many complaints for things happening straight after delivery.

A Fiat tech does the job now.

Regarding me making allegations: I am commenting on the claims of Mr Sawant, which you can see on my previous post.
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Old 25th March 2010, 18:18   #216
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CPH, Now you sound exacly like an Auto Industry person. It is the buyer's job(!?) to check all the papers and not the duty of the seller to make sure all papers are correct?
In Britain they put your car in te crusher if your details are not correct. The DVLA states very clearly that you have to make sure of it. In the other 26 European community countries it is similar and some of them you go to prison for. Switzerland is not part of the EU but similar measures are there in place.

If I sell a product in a box to you, wouldn't you check whether it is meeting the description. I have been a lot in Southall and Newham borough, where the highest percentages of Indians are in the country. From what I can see it is common practise that they check everything. I have personally dealt with enough Indians to be able to say that they check everything.

A car is not a bag of sweets. I never bought one without checking everything.

I am not covering the sellers back.
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Old 25th March 2010, 18:22   #217
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Originally Posted by neoonwheels View Post
Well I did not get the logic of him being an insurance agent. Who would like to see his new car in flames just for the sake of depreciated value? On top of that the poor soul was sitting on passenger sit and was driven around.

If the car is really from a pre production batch then Concorde is in trouble for sure for selling it to a customer without his concern. Well I am not sure but is Concorde partly owned by TATA? I remember something this sort vaguely.

Looking at other people (drpullacharan) who fought with TATA for a faulty indica for 10 years, I pity this man. May god give him courage to fight back.

An insurance agents job is to check every single detail as otherwise they are in deep trouble.

And if Concorde has sold the car as something it isn't you can't hold Tata reponsible.

Everyone jumped on Tata ad by the looks of the emerging evidence it seems that Tata has the least reponsibility in this incident.
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Old 25th March 2010, 18:27   #218
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And if Concorde has sold the car as something it isn't you can't hold Tata reponsible.
I think you missed my previous post. Concorde is owned by none other than Tata.
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Old 25th March 2010, 19:13   #219
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Hi

Please see my replies (in Bold).

BTW I am a CA & audits/ investigation have been part of my career for long. Even today I have to minutely review work done by my peers & subordinates. This would help you understanding my position in making the comments.

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Originally Posted by CPH View Post
An insurance agents job is to check every single detail as otherwise they are in deep trouble.

Would you like to trust an insurance agent who does not properly check the papers at the time taking delivery of his assets when he is minutely checking the papers in case of all other claims... or he is waiting to make a claim later on. It really seems that he dis not apply professional sense while making decision for himself. When our family bought the Santro we did not do the PDI, but my father did got the date of production confirmed from reliable sources (&, he works for a bank... see professional common sense). Not to mention that the car has served us really well with any complaint for the past 6.5 years.

And if Concorde has sold the car as something it isn't you can't hold Tata reponsible.

Tata should be held responsible for defective car sold to customer, not only for its own subsidiary but for all dealerships, if it is proved that the defect was a manufacturing fault. However, the dealership manager should be punished responsible for criminal negligence if he ignored the fact that he was selling the pre-production car.

Everyone jumped on Tata ad by the looks of the emerging evidence it seems that Tata has the least reponsibility in this incident.
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Of course they are frustrated, but we have to still try to find the truth and there is more and more evidence emerging, which some people just don't want to take in.

Part of my job is investigating technical problems. And I will turn round and accept when I am wrong.

McLaren Rulez was one of the biggest shouters of Tata should, but he is sweeping things now under vthe carpet trying to find holes in my arguments rather than accept that he wasn't right.

If Tata is wrong it is one thing, but two wrongs won't make a right.

I support individual cases, I don't support Tata. I respect that they have achieved quite something. A lot of people here see only the little black spot on a white piece of paper. I see a bit more than this.

I bet that if I were to run Tata down that some people would render me even racist.

Unfortunately Mr Sawant made a couple of comments that do not add up.
In an investigation or court cases many cases are won/lost on basis of contradicting statements/reports by parties to the case.
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Old 25th March 2010, 19:26   #220
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Originally Posted by RajaTaurus View Post
CPH, Now you sound exacly like an Auto Industry person. It is the buyer's job(!?) to check all the papers and not the duty of the seller to make sure all papers are correct?


THis is one good example of twisting words!. Where did CPH say not the duty of the seller to make sure all papers are correct?
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Old 25th March 2010, 19:26   #221
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Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez View Post
You're obviously missing the point. If it can be shown that the Nano clearly has a problem, and that does seem to be the case, I fully expect Tata to both acknowledge and fix it. Telling me that a truck is more likely to run me over is not an excuse.
How do the 2 tie in?

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I actually said, if there is a problem Tata should be acknowledging and fixing it.
Not my words!
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Old 25th March 2010, 19:29   #222
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I am a strong believer that since the car is so cheap, some of the ordinary haters or competitors can buy it and intentionally set up the car to catch fire.

Some good investigation should be performed to find the cause, if there was any foul play if any.

Last edited by aerohit : 25th March 2010 at 19:30. Reason: Fraud by Public
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Old 25th March 2010, 20:08   #223
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@CPH .. TATA released the NANO without even setting up a factory because of the JLR ( jaguar land rover) .
They jumped the gun too quick and in my consideration the JLR deal was quite a costly mistake .
After the deal was complete FORD was laughing as there was a big slow down in the demand for vehicles internationally and TATA was now forced in part to release the nano so that they could save face and the prospect of discusssion would be the NANO rather than deal abt JLR as a bad acqusition .

Now , to part finance the acqusition , the NANO was rushed and Indians were fooled into making them believe that the car was the cheapest .

No other car sold in recent times has had any application forms or bookings ..LOL .. what were the TATAS thinking ? The applications are a mere proof for tata to show the demand for the car and there by raise capital for funding the operations .

So to sum it up , i am sure the NANO release was one of haste rather than a proper product release . ( this is my view )
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Old 25th March 2010, 20:19   #224
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This thread is one good place for twisting of words and ganging up on some particular members. Pre-Production cars are some times sent to dealers for testing and we have seen multiple incidences of them being sold to unsuspected customers. Look at this link where five Nano's were sent to Nepal for testing. Ofcourse this cannot be an excuse for Tata.

The Telegraph - Calcutta (Kolkata) | Business | Tata small wonder revs up for a drive on Bangla roads


Some good investigation should be performed to find the cause, if there was any foul play if any.

Why investigation only by Tata's. Why not by the government? Why is no one talking about that.

By RajaTaurus:
Nano is supposed to be a replacement/ upgrade of two wheeler in India, on a massive scale. This car is going to be driven by mostly those who just know the car has five wheels and a key to start and three pedals under his legs for running it or stopping it and not more than that. In other words, the 'layman', or 'the 'laywoman' - like those 2 ladies in the shop. These people don't read Auto-forums /Auto-Mags / watch Auto-shows to get themselves educated about the 'worlds auto scene'.
Remember the potential buyer is scared and that is a fact. We can pour in thousands figures and facts to substantiate that this is not abnormal / it happens world-wide / even most expensive cars catch fire / etc. all would not hold water to alleviate the basic fear factor that has already crept in the normal buyers and is fast spreading.


Your logic holds good if people adding fire to this thread are layman/laymwoman. They are not. They are not even Nano owners or future Nano owners. They are the so called self proclaimed experts who read auto mazines like you but only can help spreading the fire. I sincerely doubt that concern for Nano owners is making you to post on this thread. THe buyer is scared because of the scare mongering done by media and so called experts like you. And are you meaning to say you don't care if honda city catches fire bcoz less People drive it in India. Calculate the percent of cities catching fire in India to that Nano. I am sure city would be higher. Also be it City or Nano, people die if they catch fire. So please be unbaised like Fire. Let me quote something by FUNKYKAR(he booked a nano)

This, along with some more fire incidents of other cars reported in this thread certainly will calm some of my nerves. As I said earlier in this thread, my delivery of the NANO is expected within a week. I still bat for TATA and hope the investigation finishes quickly and we get to know the cause of the fire very soon.


Initially he was so scared that he was thinking of cancelling the booking. The way some people write they make others believe as if every Nano is going to catch fire.

Nano catches fire theard goes to 16 pages in three days(how many of them posting are actually present or future nano owners).
City catches fire thread remains at 3 pages.

While the wise men wait for the outcome of the probe, why don't we concentrate on Government role in this matter. Why are they not investigating. Why don't we(40000 t-bhpians) do something about this? Don't Indian drivers deserve a agency caring about their safety? As someone on this thread has said, ranting won't take us any where. Bhopal gas tragedy is one good example. Govt remained a mute spectator. WHY?
Bcoz we didnot force them to act. On every anniversary group of people in USA protest outside Dow Chemicals headoffice None of them are indians FYI. When compared to them we do nothing about our fellow indians except ranting.

If members like RajaTauras are really worried about the millions of present or future Nano owners(for that matter any car owner), they will do something about this instead of just ranting.
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Old 25th March 2010, 20:39   #225
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@CPH .. TATA released the NANO without even setting up a factory because of the JLR ( jaguar land rover) .
So whatever exists in Pantnagar is a cowshed ? And are you sure you mean JLR and not Mamta Banarjee ?
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