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Old 26th March 2010, 19:40   #271
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Originally Posted by rjalihal View Post
Well it is the world's cheapest car. Such issues are bound to occur. i am not surprised if a few more go up in flames sometime soon. Its about time these cars came with Fire Extinguishers as part of the standard safety features
Tell me you are not serious!!!
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Old 26th March 2010, 23:45   #272
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I hv posted a few pics and all of it involves a burning car.

All Lamborghini Gallardos to be precise.

Lamborghini as everyone knows is made by Audi who, as far as i know make some of the most reliable cars in the world.

Im not trying to defend the Nano, but im jus trying to point out the fact that most major automakers in the world have faced problems like these.

Tata as far as i see have very poor R&D and some of their products were quite a pain in the rear when they were newly launched.

The first gen Indica were headaches to the owners.

The Estate, Sierra and the first Safari had technical problems right from day one.

I thought Tata would improve at some stage, but with the burning Nanos everywhere, im starting to lose hope.

Hope they sort out the problem in time so that
"All izz well" for the customer.
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Old 27th March 2010, 06:41   #273
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Feels all rear engined ones've got problems Lamborghini's, Nanos, Marcopolos & ALs (both DTC)??
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Old 27th March 2010, 08:35   #274
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Originally Posted by fifthwheel View Post
Feels all rear engined ones've got problems Lamborghini's, Nanos, Marcopolos & ALs (both DTC)??

Fantastic observation, try telling that to Porsche, Ferrari (many mid-engined cars), Bugatti, Pagani etc., that they've totally got it backwards .
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Old 27th March 2010, 08:43   #275
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In a shocking revelation made by the company’s spokesperson Amit Joshi, Sawant was informed that the car was a pre-production model. He said, “Concorde Motors was not supposed to sell it to any customer.”

The vehicle Acknowledgment Delivery Note shows the year of manufacture as 2009 where as Tata’s spokesperson Deba-shish Ray says that the vehicle was actually manufactured in 2008. Amongst this confusion and casual approach by Tata Motors,
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Old 27th March 2010, 13:36   #276
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One make and model of car has caught the attention of a nation (and maybe the world?) because of spontaneous conflagration.

Never before had we heard of so many incidents, in so short a span of time, to one model of one make -- that too a fairly new one and importantly, one flaunting a dimunitive size and price-point that so recently wowed the world.

As we are habitually wont to do, we look for precedent in the western world. Being ahead of us in the game, surely they must have tackled issues like this with appropriate technology, legislation and legal process.

One precedent, albeit in somewhat different circumstances, pops into attention -- the Ford Pinto, its petrol-tank fires (and its manufacturer's dilemma -- commercially balancing the cost of ignoring the situation, versus cost of rectification.

Here is the story
Back in 1968, when the USA market gravitated toward sub-compacts like the VW Beetle, Ford designed a car straitjacketed to a 2,000 pound weight and a $2,000 price tag restriction -- the Ford Pinto.

In those computing-handicapped days, it took 43 months to transition a car design into production. However Ford corporate decided to rush its cheapest car of the 1970s, into production in just 25 months.

Design-time tests revealed that, in rear-end crashes over 40 km/h, the petrol tank always burst. In 64 km/h crashes, the Pinto's doors would jam and its trapped passengers would burn to death. Fixing this would cost an additional $11 per car.


Flawed engineering design, had a $11 solution. The Ford board knew about it but chose to deny it all, ostensibly to squeeze RoI out of assembly-line machinery tooling investment, they had already sunk-in.

Bean-counter arithmetic showed that adding $11 per vehicle design improvement, for 12.5 million vehicles would cost them $ 137,000,000,...

...whereas 180 people burned to death at $200,000 compensation per death, plus 180 people seriously burned at $67,000 compensation per burn injury, plus $700 per vehicle would cost only $49,150,000.

So, content to assign a dollar figure to human life and suffering, ethics was thrown to the winds and it was decided to pay for accidents on a case-by-case basis.

The result?
About 500 people burned to death in Ford Pintos.
In Feb. 1978 the US courts awarded a 16-year-old badly burned boy,
$128,000,000 in damages -- the largest single-person injury judgment in history.

Come May 1978, the US Dept of Transportation called for a recall of all 1971-1976 Pintos. 14 lakh Pintos were recalled -- the most expensive recall in automotive history.

Over 100 lawsuits against Ford punished them with millions of dollars in damages.

A first-world country's strong legal system forced a proud and mighty Detroit corporate to eat humble pie and students of law and automotive design got another case-study to remember and quote.

Ram

Last edited by Ram : 27th March 2010 at 13:46.
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Old 27th March 2010, 14:22   #277
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Yesterday in the UK traffic news was another car reported being on fire, which made it necessary to shut down the motorway section.

Another Nano on fire!

Oooh sorry, I forgot. It can't be a Nano. It is not on sale yet in the UK.

Must be the reason why it doesn't make the headlines of any newspaper in the world.

After all the Nano does not top the list of burning cars.

BTW Mercedes seems to be sooo good that they had to bribe half the world that governments and authorites bought them.

Now they are even willing to pay 100 billion USD to avoid court cases. Tata might not be the best, but there is many more that are much worse.

And just one other thought: Many people love to buy a Mercedes. Have it occured to them that quite a portion of the money they pay for it doesn't go to the car rather than some corrupt authority?

A new bartering argument when buying the worlds most overprized piece of engineering scrap: Don't bribe me, give me a better price to start with. At least we stay legal on that side.

Last edited by CPH : 27th March 2010 at 14:23.
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Old 27th March 2010, 14:30   #278
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What is the cause of fire? I pressume the Nano rolled out now are petrol version. I personally feel it has something to do with fuel line. May be the fuel line running over the alternator and the fuel has leaked from pipe over the alternator catching fire. May be I am too naive. Any analysis here?
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Old 27th March 2010, 14:40   #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram View Post
A first-world country's strong legal system forced a proud and mighty Detroit corporate to eat humble pie and students of law and automotive design got another case-study to remember and quote.
Ram sir, that was a really good piece of information.

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Old 27th March 2010, 14:57   #280
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Originally Posted by dwaraka View Post
What is the cause of fire? I pressume the Nano rolled out now are petrol version. I personally feel it has something to do with fuel line. May be the fuel line running over the alternator and the fuel has leaked from pipe over the alternator catching fire. May be I am too naive. Any analysis here?
Whatever it was will be certainly revealed soon.

The car I just reported about is one of many cars that catch fire over here in the UK. Nobody bats an eye lid about it aprt from the angry people having to go off the motorway.

But the amazing thing is it wasn't a Nano. From what a lot of people made the Nano recently, I autmatically am driven to assume it would be a Nano.

Nano = fire.

But not in my estimation.
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Old 27th March 2010, 15:57   #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPH View Post
The car I just reported about is one of many cars that catch fire over here in the UK. Nobody bats an eye lid about it aprt from the angry people having to go off the motorway.

But the amazing thing is it wasn't a Nano. From what a lot of people made the Nano recently, I autmatically am driven to assume it would be a Nano.

Nano = fire.

But not in my estimation.
I agree,but quality hasn't exactly been Tata's forte ever since they ventured into making cars.Yes,they might have improved by leaps and bounds over the past few years,but they are not yet at par with the best out there.So this kind of a reaction is nothing but natural considering Tata's infamous quality issues.

Yes,car fires do happen,but if the cause is purely mechanical,they shouldn't happen in the first place.This isn't an Utopian thought,but considering the general safety of the people. That said,a brand new car burning up in flames due to some mechanical fault is highly uncalled for,whether it be a Nano or a S Class.Natural initial reactions will obviously have fingers pointing at the manufacturer.

I'm a huge fan of the Nano and really like the way you've defended Tata in spite of being a Brit.But this is just my personal opinion. Tata is truly at fault here unless its been a vile sabotage.
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Old 28th March 2010, 04:04   #282
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I'm a huge fan of the Nano and really like the way you've defended Tata in spite of being a Brit.
This reminds me of a French advert pointing to the Britiah;

You don't have to be French to shop in Calais.

Now I have a new advert for the Nano:

You don't need to be Indian to like the Nano.

BTW tha Britsh would kill you calling me British. I am only German.
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Old 28th March 2010, 07:40   #283
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11 Dollar fix for the Ford Pinto? I am sure if Tata in their investigation found that there is a possible design fix or workaround involved with such an amount to rectify the problem, They would not hesitate to incorporate it. They would certainly pass that cost to the customer gradually but that's another thing.

It is in their interest that they would ensure that things go smooth as the Nano is their blue eyed baby. They first need to get the baby running around streets and people doting on it.

There is a possibility that some competitors or evil minds might be at work playing to a plan.


@CPH: Seems like you have a lot of information on these things. Can you please share with us how such incidents are investigated and what exactly tranpires. Do you feel they would get some conclusive proof or evidence about the cause of the problem.

And yeah, You dont have to be an Indian to like the nano
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Old 28th March 2010, 13:01   #284
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This incident is a huge set back for Nano's reputation. I remember a poll on team-bhp where Nano was voted the car of the year. It ought to be the car of the year because it was a novelty and the dream come true for the common man. I think the burning Nanos has to do with the brand positioning of Nano itself - "The cheapest Car."

I think there is compromise on quality in Nano in order to keep its price low. It is true that Nano is a small car, but I was always wondered how a price tag of about 1,22,000 was possible for a 'CAR.' Apart from the fire incidents, Nano also is too small and too light a car to survive accidents.
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Old 28th March 2010, 20:41   #285
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Cosmic Rays? Like Toyota claims it is Cosmic rays, Then even Tata could claim now Fire's are due to Cosmic Rays :-)
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