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Old 8th April 2010, 12:01   #346
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Originally Posted by kadri007 View Post
I think Tata's need to wake up and see the quality issues seriously. There are low budgets vehicle coming into the market like Mahindra Gio, Atul auto's, etc. But these are not having quality issues like this.

The fire has not injured people but people will need a reassurance, else customers will feel they are sitting in a time bomb which may trigger any time.

This will impact on sales and long term relations with Tata Motors.

I feel Tata's should improve the quality further and increase the price nominally rather than putting cheap and getiing into trouble.
I think we are being way to tolerant about this. Just wishing and hoping that TATA improves its quality and that you are not the unlucky one is being plain naive. Another Nano may go up in flames any time and it may have you near and dear ones inside when it does go up in flames. There is no room for complacency and chalta hai attitude here. Thankfully no one has died yet and I urge all of you who have Nanos or have booked one to force the dealership/TATA to take back the cars and ask for a refund or a replacement once all the defects are cleared. This is just not a thing to be discussed in such a light vein. Something has to be done soon or else it may be too late.
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Old 8th April 2010, 12:48   #347
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Absolutely pathetic quality control from Tata. I for once have now lost hope in all Tata vehicles . Now few will argue Nano does not constitute all the Tata Motors vehicle range, but it is definitely the one showcased everywhere.
One Nano catching fire can be one-off incident and lots of things can be attributed to it, but a second case within a month of the first , a big crime indeed. Unpardonable.

--Vikrant
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Old 8th April 2010, 13:04   #348
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Originally Posted by funkykar View Post
I am an optimistic guy. Family and friends, how would you convince them? That too for 2nd time. They wouldnt know anything about automobiles or freak incidents. They judge by what they see and what they hear from media. I am sure media would already hyped and made huge deal out of this. Nano would still come home anyways.
The population of Europe is much smaller than India and still we have 42,000 people killed in accidents. This equivalent to every week from Monday to Friday on fully seated Boing 737 crashing with all on board dying.

Your relatives might not believe it. We all still go out and walk the streets, go on the bus and drive our cars.

Quite a few incidents happened with Toyota with many people injured and a number of people dying. But nobody is afraid of Toyota.

Tell your relatives to get real. It might prevent premature death of stress or a stroke.

In evryones household lurk more fatal hazards then out in the street or the even less possibility to get harmed in a Nano. But nobody bothers often for years. Ask them how many people they think die every year at home. They would be astonished about the figures.

Tell them to worry first about that before worrying about the Nano.

This is logics anything else is panicking. And panicking is detrimental. I know about it as I am holding a sailing license and have seen the effects.

Do you know what the training instructions for panicking is?

Smack the panickers and shout at them to behave.

It worked in sailing instances. But don't smack them physically.
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Old 8th April 2010, 13:06   #349
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Originally Posted by CARDEEP View Post
Tata Nano seems to have some problem with fuel supply leakages (I assume), which causes the fuel to leak onto the hot engine bay causing fire (in the latest two cases).

As far as I know, & have collected information from my friends/ relatives who are in auto industry, in India how many good fuel pump supplier exist, very few. Add to this the fools handling QC in Tata. T.

Fuel pump and injection components are from Bosch , I feel that is the most reliable one available over here.

There is one common thread in this issue.
1. Both were new Cars being driven for first time outside factory.
2. Fire was from engine bay in one sample but other sample in the batch were intact.
3. No Engine bay fire till now in other 24000-25000 running on road.

So this points to few other probablities such as

(1) Some factory packaging material like thermocol sheet stuffed in engine bay not being removed before driving , I heard the similar one on couple of other initial ownership thread but thankfully just engine check light came.

(2) Burning material from road such as cigarette butt being sucked in by air vents which are below rear doors , A simple thin wire mash should prevent this. Many drivers have bad habit of tossing out the ciggerate butt from window also in many parts people just burn the garbage on roadside.

(3) Faulty rubber tubes ???
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Old 8th April 2010, 13:11   #350
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
The tata nano which caught fire yesterday was not being driven by a customer, but was being delivered to the showroom.
Now thats really really a first. There is no customer involved here, only the manufacturer!
The car in question was driven to Vadodara for delivery. Customer was not driving the car and the car caught fire on highway i.e. NH8.

This proves that there is something wrong in design or in quality. Mostly its quality control, and use of inferior quality to keep costs down.

This is second incidence of Nano catching fire in Gujarat. May be Gujarat's heat ?
This was a stock car i.e. no electrical components, etc. were installed from local mechanics or shops. A completely stock car catching fire. Not good IMHO.

It is reported that the fire started from back of the car.

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Originally Posted by CPH View Post

1) What's more, the only car shorter than this to have successfully passed the Euro NCAP crash test is Mercedes-Benz's wildly expensive-to-build 8ft 2in (2,489mm) Smart car, which sells at 6,900. Former Ford chief engineer Richard Parry Jones once suggested that the 11ft 10.5in (3,620mm) Ford Ka was about the shortest car he could imagine having sufficient front-end crash safety for the European market.

2) That is not to scoff at the Tata Nano though. It isn't designed for the developed world. What's more, rival car makers also compromise absolute crash safety in emerging markets, although not always to the same extent.
"
Toyota president, Katsuaki Watanabe admits the Nano will force his company to create "a revolution in car making", with production processes that take days rather than weeks, that his engineers are studying right now. The Tata's two-cylinder engine is also in the vanguard, with Fiat, Volkswagen, Mitsubishi and GM all working on similar power units fitted with balance shafts to meet new fuel consumption and carbon dioxide requirements.

3) This is statements from CEOs of the largest companies in the world as well as automotive experts.
1) EuroNCAP ? A joke. Tata is not listed in the Eurocnap website. The crash test was of a car that was modified and 18kg weight was added through structural additions. And the test was not 64 kmph ( or 40 MHP ), 40% offset front crash test.
If a stock Nano was tested at by EuroNCAP under the 40% offset 40 mph test, then we would have clear results.

Forget Nano, even Vista was to be modified to score 3 or 4 stars in EuroNCAP ( source is ACI, read in ACI ).
So lets keep this safety issue aside.

And speed matters a lot. A 2 star rated Baleno when crashes at 40 kmph, the result is damaged bumper and some front parts. Even the radiator was not off from its location.

Concluding that Nano is as safe as Alto is too much. May be 800, but Alto is a segment higher than 800 IMHO. Alto's platform is the same as Wagon R, so what next, we have Nano safer than Wagon R ?

2) Can you elaborate on this point ?

3) At the launch of each car, the CEO mostly will have something to say. Bob Lutz once said that Toyota will never be able to get American customers out of American trucks.

Carlos Ghosn thought that Logan would be a hit in India, but its sales are very poor.

At the end of the day, when the issue related to safety these manufacturing defects are discussed, its meaning less to involve the words of Automotive Experts. The actual facts and number/incidences are enough. What is the automotive experts reaction now about the fire incidences ?

Last edited by aaggoswami : 8th April 2010 at 13:12.
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Old 8th April 2010, 13:38   #351
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Originally Posted by SPARKled View Post
I urge all of you who have Nanos or have booked one to force the dealership/TATA to take back the cars and ask for a refund or a replacement once all the defects are cleared. This is just not a thing to be discussed in such a light vein. Something has to be done soon or else it may be too late.
Ok i agree for once that there is something wrong in design but is it possible to force TATA to refund the money?? I don't think so.


Secondly, since the TATAs have not come out with any explianation yet, what can we ( the existing Nano owners can do ourselves like checks etc) to reassure ourselves. I Urge all the gurus to give their inputs on this.

I never doubted my Nano ever but this thread has done the unthinkable and this is BAD. (The point is i am to take my nano for its maiden outstation trip tommorrow and hope for the best. AMEN...)
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Old 8th April 2010, 13:38   #352
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
At the end of the day, when the issue related to safety these manufacturing defects are discussed, its meaning less to involve the words of Automotive Experts. The actual facts and number/incidences are enough. What is the automotive experts reaction now about the fire incidences ?
If the expert is from Toyota, he would deny anything is wrong. In 2015 they will accept that something was wrong and recall 300,000,000 Nanos to avoid legal action!

Just kidding... Hope somebody clarifies concretely what is going wrong instead of assumptions, calculations, integration, differentiation etc.
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Old 8th April 2010, 13:46   #353
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Nobody claimed that the Nano has passed the NCAP. You should read more carefully.

However the Nano exceeds the Indian safety test regulation. It also passed the ECR 94, which is more stringent than the the Indian regulation. This is even in the unmodified version for the EC market.

At 40kph impact speed a radiator is not intact This is impossible. It would be the first car ever unless the radiator is in the boot. I have watched many crash test.

You are talking about facts:

Fact is that 3 Nanos had smoke appearing from the steering column and turned by the public into fire (non factual) and the problems being solved.

Fact is that 2 Nanos have been claimed to catch fire in the engine compartment.

Fact is that no one in the public knows the cause, but most people jump on Tata.

Fact is that if I as a German would run down Tata the way you do I would be called a racist by half the country.

Fact is that nobody is bothered about the people that die in other cars for more serious reasons.

Do you want me to continue with facts?

What automotive engineers say to the fires?

I am one and I know what the procedures are. I know what the scale of such problems mean for the manufacturer. I know how many recalls every week are being forced by the governing bodies in the different countries. And I know what my collegues think.

And all I can say is stop scare mongering.

You laugh about the Americans when Orson Welles was very convincing that the Marsians come in 1938 by just reading a book (War of the worlds) over the radio? Result was a mass hysteria.

Do you really want to ape it? Get real!
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Old 8th April 2010, 13:57   #354
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Originally Posted by kkg View Post
Ok i agree for once that there is something wrong in design but is it possible to force TATA to refund the money?? I don't think so.


Secondly, since the TATAs have not come out with any explianation yet, what can we ( the existing Nano owners can do ourselves like checks etc) to reassure ourselves. I Urge all the gurus to give their inputs on this.

I never doubted my Nano ever but this thread has done the unthinkable and this is BAD. (The point is i am to take my nano for its maiden outstation trip tommorrow and hope for the best. AMEN...)
When you collect it, raise your concerns, let a technician show you the engine bay and explain to you, why this can't happen to your car let them go out for a drive with you and go from there. Even if it does happen, which is very unlikely you are the third person then.

And just to let you know:

The special brand name of the Fiat group Abarth, which produces the top mdels of the Fiat range in the Abarth factory had for over a year one in three vehicles that were non runners! They had to be repaired in the dealerships with quite a few dangerous issues attached to it!
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Old 8th April 2010, 14:15   #355
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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Fuel pump and injection components are from Bosch , I feel that is the most reliable one available over here.

There is one common thread in this issue.
1. Both were new Cars being driven for first time outside factory.
2. Fire was from engine bay in one sample but other sample in the batch were intact.
3. No Engine bay fire till now in other 24000-25000 running on road.

So this points to few other probablities such as

(1) Some factory packaging material like thermocol sheet stuffed in engine bay not being removed before driving , I heard the similar one on couple of other initial ownership thread but thankfully just engine check light came.

(2) Burning material from road such as cigarette butt being sucked in by air vents which are below rear doors , A simple thin wire mash should prevent this. Many drivers have bad habit of tossing out the ciggerate butt from window also in many parts people just burn the garbage on roadside.

(3) Faulty rubber tubes ???
Exactly the similar points as I have listed in one of my posts earlier under the very thread. Glad to see that we share the same platform.

But investigation should be done by Tata... shouldn't they!!

This one to clear doubts of all & sundry except few adamants ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
The car in question was driven to Vadodara for delivery. Customer was not driving the car and the car caught fire on highway i.e. NH8.

This proves that there is something wrong in design or in quality. Mostly its quality control, and use of inferior quality to keep costs down.

This is second incidence of Nano catching fire in Gujarat. May be Gujarat's heat ?
This was a stock car i.e. no electrical components, etc. were installed from local mechanics or shops. A completely stock car catching fire. Not good IMHO.

It is reported that the fire started from back of the car.



1) EuroNCAP ? A joke. Tata is not listed in the Eurocnap website. The crash test was of a car that was modified and 18kg weight was added through structural additions. And the test was not 64 kmph ( or 40 MHP ), 40% offset front crash test.
If a stock Nano was tested at by EuroNCAP under the 40% offset 40 mph test, then we would have clear results.

Forget Nano, even Vista was to be modified to score 3 or 4 stars in EuroNCAP ( source is ACI, read in ACI ).
So lets keep this safety issue aside.

And speed matters a lot. A 2 star rated Baleno when crashes at 40 kmph, the result is damaged bumper and some front parts. Even the radiator was not off from its location.

Concluding that Nano is as safe as Alto is too much. May be 800, but Alto is a segment higher than 800 IMHO. Alto's platform is the same as Wagon R, so what next, we have Nano safer than Wagon R ?

2) Can you elaborate on this point ?

3) At the launch of each car, the CEO mostly will have something to say. Bob Lutz once said that Toyota will never be able to get American customers out of American trucks.

Carlos Ghosn thought that Logan would be a hit in India, but its sales are very poor.

At the end of the day, when the issue related to safety these manufacturing defects are discussed, its meaning less to involve the words of Automotive Experts. The actual facts and number/incidences are enough. What is the automotive experts reaction now about the fire incidences ?
Modified Nano may meet the EuroNCAP safety standards. Same with the latest Alto (or M800, whatever jargon you may call the car). But India do you think the manufacturers, be it Maruti, Tata, Hyundai, Mahindra, etc, care bit about the safety standards. No, because these would only decrease their profits in India.
This is not the case in Europe or America, where cars with low safety ratings are not recommended & bought.
The Alto or erstwhile M800, that is sold in India are older designs which need not be as safe for the passengers & other road users, though structurally solid over the Nano.

The latest safety standards value the importance of human life, which is correct for Europe or America with decreasing native population, but not in India where population is still increasing exponentially.

That is why we are for having love for solid cars like the Ambassadors, Padminis, etc over safer cars (for passengers) being launched recently.

I will again reiterate that a couple of Nano accidents have been reported in the forum itself & the passengers were not hurt seriously. In fact one of the danaged Nanos was being driven (not towed) to the service centre.
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Old 8th April 2010, 14:22   #356
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Originally Posted by CPH View Post
The special brand name of the Fiat group Abarth, which produces the top mdels of the Fiat range in the Abarth factory had for over a year one in three vehicles that were non runners! They had to be repaired in the dealerships with quite a few dangerous issues attached to it!
And Abarth Fiats are forum darlings! (better care for scathing attacks like few days ago).

CPH as you have emphasised in the passed we have to form our opinion on facts, it seems that most are doing the contrary, forming opinions on news/ rumours/ salesmen advice.

Informed judgement (however painful it may be) is the need of the hour. This is why court cases are not settled in a day.
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Old 8th April 2010, 14:22   #357
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When you collect it, raise your concerns, let a technician show you the engine bay and explain to you, then...
I already have the Nano sir, three months and 2500kms old. What now???
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Old 8th April 2010, 14:44   #358
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[quote=kkg;1827455]
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I already have the Nano sir, three months and 2500kms old. What now???
Dont worry, it may not happen with all cars. As a word of caution I can suggest you to take a small fire extinguisher and keep in the car just for emergency.

Also would suggest to take the car to the dealer and get it checked once. They may have some idea why it is happening.

And write a mail to Tata Motors people on what they have to say and keep following with them.
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Old 8th April 2010, 14:56   #359
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[quote=kkg;1827455]
Quote:

I already have the Nano sir, three months and 2500kms old. What now???
Well, you have survived the 'maiden voyage', which is where the two incidents happened. No Nano caught fire after this, which indicates that there is no a manufacturing fault the cause.

You should be safe.
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Old 8th April 2010, 15:00   #360
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I do not think there is a serious design issue here. The reason is if there is a serious design issue how about 25K+ cars that are already on the road?.

Looks like someone is not doing their job properly. Tata needs to find who he is?

I request all Nano owners to call/write to Tata Motors on this issue. carry a fire extinguisher to be on the safer side for the time being, it costs just Rs.500.

Last edited by Latheesh : 8th April 2010 at 15:02.
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