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Old 8th April 2010, 21:47   #376
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Originally Posted by soccer View Post
I do when it concerns ones life. I don't want to be labelled a martyr knowing fully well about its (Nanos) recent history.

God bless.....
WHen you agree you believe 100% of what you don't hear or don't know why don't you change your signature.

Last edited by airbender : 8th April 2010 at 21:59.
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Old 8th April 2010, 21:50   #377
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Saw one more news about a nano catching fire on its way to the dealer's place. The cheapest car might be that much more difficult to sell.
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Old 8th April 2010, 21:56   #378
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Originally Posted by airbender View Post
WHen you agree you believe 100% of what you don't hear or don't know why don't you change your post.
Its just a signature for heaven's sake, not his sole principle in life. Quit harping on it and see the point he makes in his post.
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Old 8th April 2010, 21:58   #379
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[quote=soccer;1828356]
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To separate the facts and fiction, I suggest you read "http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian-car-scene/8043-protest-against-tata-motors-edit-supreme-court-orders-tata-repair-sumo-pg-40-a-48.html." in detail and you will know how one can be accused like " your so called fiction when all facts were given in black and white.

Lets all live in the real world and see whats happening around us.

God bless.....
This is posted by you on this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by soccer View Post
[The fire could well have started because of a faulty front tyre.


Is this fact or Fiction?

The fire started in the rear for the car in Mumbai. Any person with something between the ears would not say that's because of front tyre.

All my posts on this thread are related to Nano fire and nothing else. I would not retreat to a different thread to support any fiction. If I have any thing to say about any other thread, I will do it on that thread.



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Its just a signature for heaven's sake, not his sole principle in life. Quit harping on it and see the point he makes in his post.
Welcome back, McLaren Rulez. Signatures do pass a message, not contridictory though.

Everyone is making the same point that Tata's should address the issue. But I prefer making my case using facts.

Some people just post even without knowing the details of the incident.

Last edited by airbender : 8th April 2010 at 22:07.
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Old 8th April 2010, 22:17   #380
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We should also look at this from the following standpoint:

Sabotage: There may be a group/groups of people who may not want the nano to come to the market, so that they could sell their lousy vehicles/prehistoric vehicles, especially to the sub-taxi segment.

I feel they could be involved in this.
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Old 8th April 2010, 22:57   #381
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For all those who want immediate reply from TATA:

To analyze this type of incident it may take more time than some of you "experts" imagine. I remember analysing some excess vibration in the control lever of one heavy equipment. We spent a cool 10-12 days to find the exact reason for the problem with the help of so many soghisticated instruments.

Let's not speculate. I think there are some senior BHPians who owns NANO, let's ask them to do a preliminay check on their car. Just a visual inspection.
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Old 8th April 2010, 23:13   #382
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[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by airbender View Post
All my posts on this thread are related to Nano fire and nothing else. I would not retreat to a different thread to support any fiction. If I have any thing to say about any other thread, I will do it on that thread.
I was trying to bring to your notice as to what levels Tatas can stoop too. But then, its quite obvious that you decided to close your eyes, ears and mind to the obvious.

God bless.....
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Old 9th April 2010, 00:38   #383
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Quote:

I was trying to bring to your notice as to what levels Tatas can stoop too. But then, its quite obvious that you decided to close your eyes, ears and mind to the obvious.

God bless.....
This is one good example to say you pick and choose your battles. You are still escaping from answering your Front tyre comment. FYI, I am reading that thread and if needed will answer you on that thread. Again, there was no need for you to jump to that thread. My facts or Fiction comment was only aimed at your front tyre post and has nothing to do with the tata sumo thread(you know this too). Instead of defending that, you chosse to pick a different topic.


From you previous post:
Quote:
I would suggest that you dump the idea of taking delivery and wait for some more time. Try selling it to some other customer, though I have my own doubts if anybody would be willing to take that risk, presently.
You are suggesting him not to take delivery and try selling to other customer. You are not asking him to cancel the delivery which means you are OK with the other individual suffering. This shows what kind of a human being you are. Members like you have posted on this thread before and have been replied back. Only if you care to read through the thread.

Last edited by airbender : 9th April 2010 at 00:47.
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Old 9th April 2010, 01:44   #384
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What I am puzzled by are the following:
  • Despite problems happening to various Tata vehicles never reaching news headlines, the Nanos catching fire becomes headlines instantly just within a few hours if not less, with images.
  • Considering the cases happened in the hands of the dealership its strange that the related party insisted that the media gets this news.
  • Brand new cars as well, that too when the Sanand factory is about to go full swing, it seems to be timed very well.
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Old 9th April 2010, 07:39   #385
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285 of the cars caught fire before the recall (fact not fiction and no scaremongering):

Ford recalls 4.5M vehicles over switch's risk of fire
- Detroit Free Press
10/14/2009 - Ford Motor Co. is recalling 4.5 million vehicles due to a faulty switch that can overheat and catch fire. It’s the automaker’s eighth recall in a decade involving the same switch, which has now resulted in the recall of more than 14 million vehicles.
Ford is recalling 1.1 million Ford Windstar minivans, model years 1995 through 2003, that could have the problem. The automaker also is recalling 3.4 million additional vehicles that have the switch, including Ford Excursions, Explorers and Rangers of various model years, going back as far as 1992.
“While the data show the majority of the vehicles being recalled do not pose a significant safety risk, we are recalling the vehicles to reassure customers and eliminate any future concerns,” Ford said in a statement.
The switch, made by a former business unit of Texas Instruments, is used to disengage the vehicle’s cruise control. NHTSA says the switch poses a risk because it could leak brake fluid, which can reach the anti-lock brake system and start to burn, potentially prompting a fire even when the vehicle isn’t running.
In a statement Texas Instruments said, “The switch is only one component of Ford’s cruise control deactivation switch system and is not the root cause of the fires.”
Before Tuesday’s recall, Ford’s previous recalls stemming from the faulty cruise control switch already ranked as the nation’s largest automotive recall. It also tops Toyota’s recall last month of 3.8 million floor mats, which can stick under the accelerator pedal and cause sudden acceleration.
Ford’s investigation into the recent switch problems started in February 2008, when it began to look into fires under the hood of Windstar minivans, according to a letter Ford sent to the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration. That federal agency then opened an investigation in June.
Ford plans to notify vehicle owners starting at the end of the month. In the meantime, the automaker suggests owners of all the recalled vehicles park outdoors until they are serviced.
Since the first of these recalls were issued in 1999, NHTSA reports 2,521 complaints due to the switches and 285 fires. NHTSA said one fatality has been linked to a fire potentially prompted by the overheating switches.
“We are aware of a few allegations related to fatalities related to the switch fires. But none that have been confirmed at this point,” said Ford spokesman Wes Sherwood.
The recall comes at a time when Ford is strengthening its reputation for quality for its new vehicles.
“This won’t help,” said David Champion, director of automobile testing at Consumer Reports. “But I don’t think it’s going to be a big dent in the perception people have of Ford.”
Contact JEWEL GOPWANI: 313-223-4550 or jgopwani@freepress.com.
Additional Facts
Models affected by the recall
Here are the models that Ford is recalling because of potentially faulty cruise control switches.
• 1995-2003 Ford Windstar: 1.1 million
•2000-2003 Ford Excursion diesel: 36,624
•1995-2002, 1997, 2002 Ford Explorer and Mercury Mountaineer: 1.1 million
•1993-1997, 1999-2003 Ford F-Super Duty diesel: 1.1 million
•1992-2003 Ford Econoline: 742,688
•1995-1997, 2001-2003 Ford Ranger: 355,181
•1994 Ford F53 Motorhome: 7,308


______________


Toyotas handling was a bit different than claimed. Where was swift action other than denial leading deaths unnecassarily and putting people at further risk by giving poor advise (again fact):

Toyota under fire for its handling of safety recall

• Fault was not classed as a safety issue one year ago
• Car firm did not inform government until asked


Toyota's response to the potentially lethal accelerator fault which has caused cars to career out of control came under renewed attack tonight following an investigation which cast fresh doubt on the way this week's crisis was handled.
The Guardian has established that:
• Government officials said Toyota did not tell them about the problem until prompted.
• Toyota decided the fault was not a safety issue when it received the first reports over a year ago.
• A senior executive in charge of product quality drove a Toyota with a faulty accelerator to a meeting with government safety officials after the company had announced a recall.
The revelations came as the company's president, Akio Toyoda, finally apologised to customers for a recall that could affect 8.1m vehicles worldwide. He confirmed the company is investigating a further problem with the brakes on Prius cars in Japan and North America which could lead to a recall of another 270,000 cars.
"We are facing a crisis," he said in a statement in Tokyo. "I offer my apologies for the worries. Many customers are wondering whether their cars are OK."
In Britain, where more than 180,000 vehicles have been recalled, it emerged the government demanded information from Toyota at the beginning of January after government safety officials were alerted to the scale of the risk by their US counterparts. Toyota knew about the problem from the winter of 2008/09, but only provided detailed information to the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (Vosa), which registers recalls on faulty cars, on 22 January this year, according to the government.
Toyota executives have also admitted that they treated 26 cases across Europe in the winter of 2008/09 as "a quality issue". Only when the problem recurred this winter did they treat it as a safety issue. In the meantime drivers of models left on the road reported their cars speeding dangerously out of control. One driver reported that his Avensis accelerator became stuck last August while overtaking at 65mph.
But in perhaps the most astonishing twist, Neal Standen, Toyota's general manager of product quality, admitted he drove his company Avensis with a stiff accelerator to a meeting on Monday with government officials to formally register the recall, despite Toyota's own advice that customers experiencing any accelerator pedal problems should "drive to the nearest safe location, shut off the engine and contact a Toyota centre for assistance". He said he had driven the car with the stiff pedal fault for six months and had not yet taken it for repair. He said: "I choose to drive that car every day."
A spokeswoman for the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents said: "Somebody in his position should have known better. He should have stopped driving the car and had it checked immediately. If this is a company car we would hope the employer would provide a replacement."
Toyota denied it has put customers' lives at risk and insisted it had responded as quickly as possible to the problem.
"There were so few cases and no accidents [last winter], we didn't think it was a safety issue," a spokeswoman said. "We now have a larger number of cases and we are now treating it as a safety issue. That is how we value our customers."
The company also defended its decision not to inform the authorities about the problem last winter.
"During this winter period, we started to see the cases increase," said Steve Settle, Toyota's director of after-sales. "We lodged 20 reports from November to January and compared to the previous year that was a significant difference."
The RAC, which represents motorists in the UK, said the revelations about Toyota's handling of the situation were "worrying" and called for a review of how car safety recalls are handled.
"Motorists would hope that governments are not forced to request information about these problems," said its spokesman, Adrian Tink. "From a motorists' perspective, these are worrying concerns."
A spokeswoman for the Department for Transport said: "We expect them to come and tell Vosa about problems when they see a pattern emerging about an issue with design and construction. They need to see it as a pattern. At that point we expect them to tell us about it."
The US government has also had to push Toyota to act on the problem. "While Toyota is taking responsible action now, it unfortunately took an enormous effort to get to this point," Ray LaHood, the US trasportation secretary said this week. "We have been pushing Toyota to take measures to protect consumers."


_______________


Detroit, October 14, (THAINDIAN NEWS) Ford Motor has declared a recall of 4.5 million cars from the market. As stated by the sources, the cars have been recalled from the market for their faulty switches in cruise control which might lead to dangerous fire hazards in the vehicle. Texas Instruments had manufactured the switches responsible for this recall. This is not the first time that Ford Motor has declared recall of cars. However, in Ford Motor’s history this is the largest recall declared by them. With this recall the total number of cars Ford recalled till the present days reaches to 16 million. The vehicles that have been recalled by Ford were manufactured within the period of 1992 to 2003. According to the sources, the vehicles recalled by Ford Motor are of Windstar, Mercury and Lincoln model. Sources also stated that 1.1 million minivans need some repairing for fire risk and so they were recalled. It was stated that 3.4 million vehicles of the other two models would be recalled for the same reason. The sources stated the SUVs and trucks of Mercury and Lincoln will be mostly recalled. NHTSA in a statement stated that these faulty switches can cause hydraulic fluid leekage which can lead to overheating, smoking and ultimately burning of the vehicle. This can happen even when there is no ignition and the car is parked.


_______


A child had to die for this:

Feb 10, 2010

Honda Recalls Nearly 172,000 of Its Popular Jazz

[COLOR=#000000][FONT=trebuchet ms]Honda is to recall nearly 172,000 of its popular Jazz model in Britain following a fatal car fire sparked by a faulty electric window. The recall by the Japanese car maker affects models sold in Britain between 2002 and 2008.[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms]It is part of a worldwide recall of 646,000 Jazzes, including 140,000 in the United States. Honda said: 'It affects those models built in Japan, China, Brazil, Thailand, Malaysia and India.'[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms]The recall is to fix a defective master switch, which could cause water to enter the power window switch and in some cases cause a fire. It comes hard on the heels of rivals Toyota recalling up to two million cars in Britain and Europe because of a sticky accelerator pedal.[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms]In a statement Honda said: 'Under some severe operating conditions, water, rain, or other liquid may enter the driver's window and reach the master power window switch resulting in impaired function of the switch.'[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms]It said that damage to the switch could result in overheating, which 'may cause smoke, melting or, potentially, fire'.[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms]The recall follows an incident during which a two-year-old died after the switch caused a fire in a car in Cape Town, South Africa, last September.[/FONT][/COLOR]

___________


And this one about the dear little darlings from Toyota:

Toyota Recall – Indian car customers taken for many rides

26. Mar, 2010


It’s so easy for large companies like Toyota to get away without offering formal recalls in India. Worldwide, Toyota cars suffered from issues such as the accelerator pedal getting stuck or the brakes not always engaging. When these issues caught public attention, Toyota was quick to offer a recall in most countries except India. Toyota India has gone on records to release a statement related to the recall : Toyota - "Message from the Managing Director on Toyota Recall Issue" . I quote from this statement “…I would first of all like to reassure you that the global recalls are not connected with the Indian market in any way. In other words, none of the Toyota vehicles available to buyers in India will be affected by these recalls.”
I think the Toyota management is just using smart words to fool Indian customers. What the above sentence means, in straight language, is that maybe there are faults in Toyota cars in India but we’re not offering any recalls. Customers of the new Toyota Fortuner SUV are already screaming hoarse with their brakes losing power when applied at high speeds. Toyota has started replacing brakes of customers who complain but is not officially announcing for a recall. Here’s a discussion on how customers are getting replacement – http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...rs-brakes.html
All this is probably happening because Indian law enforcement is so lax, these companies and their hot-shot lawyers know ways of getting around them. Indian motor companies are now learning these odd ways from large

MNC’s.
When Maruti had to change a component in over 100,000 A-star cars, it still did not offer an official recall. The reason? “There was no attempt to hush up the matter. There was a delay in going public as India does not have a recall policy in contrast to countries in Europe which have a framework in place for reporting such matters,” Maruti Suzuki chairman R C Bhargava said. The product website – Maruti Suzuki A-Star: Stop at nothing with KB series Engine – still does not offer any info on the recall.
And now, we have flaming Tata Nano’s being spread all over the country. The $2500 car had a great launch recently, a brand new car being driven by the showroom staff to its new owners home caught fire midway. Take a look – Tata Nano Catches Fire In Mumbai . As is now the case, many other Nano cars have faced issues but the company is yet to offer a recall.
I tried to search if the Indian Motor Vehicles Act, 1988 speaks about recall policies etc but there is nothing to that effect. I hope someone brings this to the attention of the Transport Ministry and policies are created which forces motor companies to officially announce all recalls publicly.
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Old 9th April 2010, 09:15   #386
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CPH: That's one of the most comprehensive analysis I have seen on this forum. Thanks a lot.

I think people complaining on this forum should understand that it's the law and it's implementation which is the problem. As long as people don't understand this they will pay with lives. Be it to terrorism or cars. Even BMW is being investigated(more than one) for fundging the sales no's and replacing original parts with defective ones. Yet they only complain about Tata. I request everyone on this thread to use the same scale for all automakers. They would complain about a one lakh car but tend to sleep when a car 40 times the cost does not recall or it's manufacturers are being investigated. May be this atitude of indians itself says why we were(are) ruled by non-indians for so many years. Hundreds of car fires happened in india and some people also lost their lives too. But everyone only notices it when Nano catches fire.

I hope no one would say this after reading CPH's post above:

Quote:
Now this is what differentiates Honda/Toyota and Tata. Honda/Toyota accepted their problem and did a honest recall of the affected models.
Only a moron would use the words "Toyota accepted their problem and did a honest recall". They only acted because the USA Govt made them to act. THe last time I checked there are 52 criminal cases(involving accident or death) filed on Toyota in USA alone.

Last edited by airbender : 9th April 2010 at 09:31.
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Old 9th April 2010, 09:25   #387
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Originally Posted by airbender View Post
This is one good example to say you pick and choose your battles. You are still escaping from answering your Front tyre comment. FYI, I am reading that thread and if needed will answer you on that thread. Again, there was no need for you to jump to that thread. My facts or Fiction comment was only aimed at your front tyre post and has nothing to do with the tata sumo thread(you know this too). Instead of defending that, you chosse to pick a different topic.

From you previous post:

You are suggesting him not to take delivery and try selling to other customer. You are not asking him to cancel the delivery which means you are OK with the other individual suffering. This shows what kind of a human being you are. Members like you have posted on this thread before and have been replied back. Only if you care to read through the thread.
Two fantastic observations. I commend the way you take pains to reply to people who post nonsense. If I were that other person, I would just say Touche, and say that I stood corrected. There is no way to counter any one of the things you pointed out.

However, don't be surprised if you see a reply, that's just us, we just cannot take a sporting debate and know when to acknowledge the fact that the other guy has got something right and we put our foot in our mouth.
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Old 9th April 2010, 09:38   #388
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I saw in news analysis, that fire is mostly happening since its an back engine car and so it don't get sufficient cooling, The engine over heats and car catches fire. This looks pretty accurate analysis. What is your say guys?
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Old 9th April 2010, 09:52   #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airbender View Post
This is one good example to say you pick and choose your battles. You are still escaping from answering your Front tyre comment. FYI, I am reading that thread and if needed will answer you on that thread. Again, there was no need for you to jump to that thread. My facts or Fiction comment was only aimed at your front tyre post and has nothing to do with the tata sumo thread(you know this too). Instead of defending that, you chosse to pick a different topic.
Ha ha, that does not merit the title "choosing one's battles"! It is mere "shadow boxing".
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Old 9th April 2010, 09:57   #390
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Originally Posted by shamanth View Post
I saw in news analysis, that fire is mostly happening since its an back engine car and so it don't get sufficient cooling, The engine over heats and car catches fire. This looks pretty accurate analysis. What is your say guys?

so why rest of 25000 Nanos do not catch fire , It will be good if you go through some of the posts here.


yes CPH you are ride Toyota case is different , They were knowing of the problem all along but managed to jail an ex-Nissan engineer who raised the issue of sudden acceleration in Japan for first time citing him a dangerous blackmailer but such tactics do not work elsewhere.

In India somehow Honda and Toyota deliver better quality then Thailand , USA and Europe and never have to recall
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