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Old 12th April 2010, 20:18   #421
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Guys, give Tata Nano's a break! Huge numbers of Air cooled Volkswagen have been destroyed by fire, this was a COMMON problem, being air cooled the engine heat used to soften the fuel inlet pipe to the Solex carburettor, and fuel would spill all over the hot engine. Many VW campers too were toasted this way. Leaving VW aside, just recently, GM advised owners of some 5000 Vans not to park their vehicles indoors, due to fire risk.
Personally, I have had a narrow escape when my VW Variant caught fire in 1972 in Chennai, didn't notice it until some passers by pointed out that my tail was on fire.!I always carried a fire extinguisher in my cars, so managed to salvage the body the engine was melted!
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Old 12th April 2010, 23:26   #422
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How many Nanos have caught fire ?

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 or is it 7 ?

Because we have pictures to prove only one.

Rest were issues related to smoke, according to Tata Motor's spokesperson.

Now should we go by the version of Tata Motors or should we go by the version of Indian Media ?

But let me just ask one simple question to all the BHPians, is it possible to rectify issue of a car that have gone up in flames ?

I don't think so, I TBH doubt that Tata Motors can fix melt and fused parts inside a car, parts like dashboard, instruments, buttons, wiring, steering etc etc. Most of it is made of plastic which happens to be flammable and I doubt that anyone can "rectify" damage done by fire.

But that is what Tata Motors said, that they rectified the 3 cases related to issues with the fire retardant material in SteeringWheel Assembly.

So was it fire, or was it Smoke ? Tata described it as issue with fire retardant material that causes short circuit and produced smoke. I will go with the version that makes more sense, it was Smoke. Also because I don't trust Indian Media.

But when it comes to Mr. Sawant's car, it leaves little doubt that it was fire.

And then we had another incident of Fire, which Tata Motors agreed that such an issue occurred. So it is obvious that Tata Motors is not sweeping it under the carpet.

Tata Motors described the Mr. Sawant's case as "one-off incident", hence the Gujarat's incident was the second one.

So can we agree that there have been 2 cases of fire ?.

Now, are 2 cases enough to trash Nano ? I am disappointed that some among us thing that way.

I am disappointed because others don't have to trash Indian creation, Indian Ingenuity or Indian engineering. We Indians are the first to trash what is our own.

Now, to those who think that 2 cases of fire is enough to trash Indian Products, let me give you few links all of which are Indian cases.

Car fire: Husband in shock, not told about wife’s death Hyundai i10 Magna 1.2 Complaints - Car caught fire while driving http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...ches-fire.html (Swift Catches Fire) http:// 4 charred in BMW blaze, News - City - Ahmedabad Mirror,Ahmedabad Mirror maruti suzuki swiftzxi. Complaints - running swift caught fire. Cab Car caught fire near Malakpet flyover The Inside News Hyderabad – English Daily Newspaper The Hindu : Kerala / Kozhikode News : Fire accident creates panic Car catches fire at Mall Road - The Times of India Omar Abdullah has narrow escape as car catches fire | Deccan Chronicle | 2010-02-10 Woman burnt alive as car catches fire in Delhi | Top News The Hindu : Tamil Nadu News : Car catches fire near airport The Telegraph - Calcutta (Kolkata) | Nation | Car catches fire, kills woman Samaylive- Latest Hindi News & Headlines Safety Failure on Hyundai Vehicles. Rat Bite Leads to Fire Accident 12 children inside when it caught fire, van didn’t have permit to transport school kids - Express India The Burning Car maruti suzuki swiftzxi. Complaints - running swift caught fire. Was Fiat Grand Punto Caught Fire During Testing ? | Burn Your Fuel 4 charred in BMW blaze, News - City - Ahmedabad Mirror,Ahmedabad Mirror


So how many among us are going to trash Suzuki, Hyndai and others the same way ?

And considering in last few years there have been ~1,100 cases of fire with Ford's vehicles many of which resulted into deaths, why aren't we trashing Ford ?

Last edited by anmol2k4 : 12th April 2010 at 23:40.
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Old 13th April 2010, 00:01   #423
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Originally Posted by anmol2k4
I am disappointed because others don't have to trash Indian creation, Indian Ingenuity or Indian engineering. We Indians are the first to trash what is our own.
Everytime Tata is mentioned here, there is this link to India being created. As if my patriotism is linked to Tata & depends on my supporting the company.

Are we living in the pre-Independence era where using foreign stuff was not a done thing ? Nano is an Indian creation, true. Ingenuity ? Don't know. At 1lakh, it can be called ingenuity, but I read about Nano's costing 2lakhs+. No ingenuity there - it sounds like "promising a cheap product and delivering at higher cost".

And "engineering". Now we must be surely joking. Let Tata first properly "engineer" their flagship SUV retailing at close to a million rupees and make it niggle-free. Then we can come down to "engineering" the 1-lakh Nano.

What is Tata ? One of the many Indian companies. That's about it. They are here to do business, make a profit. Just like any other company. If they do good, praise them like you would any other car company. If they screw up, they would be berated here like any other car company. Please don't link my patriotism to supporting/berating a car company.

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Originally Posted by anmol2k4
And considering in last few years there have been ~1,100 cases of fire with Ford's vehicles many of which resulted into deaths, why aren't we trashing Ford ?
1100 Fords catching fire ? Where was this ? Not in India, I am sure because we would surely have known if that many cars from a manufacturer caught fire.
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Old 13th April 2010, 00:15   #424
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Originally Posted by anmol2k4 View Post
How many Nanos have caught fire ?

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 or is it 7 ?

Because we have pictures to prove only one.

Rest were issues related to smoke, according to Tata Motor's spokesperson.

Now should we go by the version of Tata Motors or should we go by the version of Indian Media ?

But let me just ask one simple question to all the BHPians, is it possible to rectify issue of a car that have gone up in flames ?

I don't think so, I TBH doubt that Tata Motors can fix melt and fused parts inside a car, parts like dashboard, instruments, buttons, wiring, steering etc etc. Most of it is made of plastic which happens to be flammable and I doubt that anyone can "rectify" damage done by fire.

But that is what Tata Motors said, that they rectified the 3 cases related to issues with the fire retardant material in SteeringWheel Assembly.

So was it fire, or was it Smoke ? Tata described it as issue with fire retardant material that causes short circuit and produced smoke. I will go with the version that makes more sense, it was Smoke. Also because I don't trust Indian Media.

But when it comes to Mr. Sawant's car, it leaves little doubt that it was fire.

And then we had another incident of Fire, which Tata Motors agreed that such an issue occurred. So it is obvious that Tata Motors is not sweeping it under the carpet.

Tata Motors described the Mr. Sawant's case as "one-off incident", hence the Gujarat's incident was the second one.

So can we agree that there have been 2 cases of fire ?.

Now, are 2 cases enough to trash Nano ? I am disappointed that some among us thing that way.

I am disappointed because others don't have to trash Indian creation, Indian Ingenuity or Indian engineering. We Indians are the first to trash what is our own.

Now, to those who think that 2 cases of fire is enough to trash Indian Products, let me give you few links all of which are Indian cases.

Car fire: Husband in shock, not told about wife’s death Hyundai i10 Magna 1.2 Complaints - Car caught fire while driving http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...ches-fire.html (Swift Catches Fire) http:// 4 charred in BMW blaze, News - City - Ahmedabad Mirror,Ahmedabad Mirror maruti suzuki swiftzxi. Complaints - running swift caught fire. Cab Car caught fire near Malakpet flyover The Inside News Hyderabad – English Daily Newspaper The Hindu : Kerala / Kozhikode News : Fire accident creates panic Car catches fire at Mall Road - The Times of India Omar Abdullah has narrow escape as car catches fire | Deccan Chronicle | 2010-02-10 Woman burnt alive as car catches fire in Delhi | Top News The Hindu : Tamil Nadu News : Car catches fire near airport The Telegraph - Calcutta (Kolkata) | Nation | Car catches fire, kills woman Samaylive- Latest Hindi News & Headlines Safety Failure on Hyundai Vehicles. Rat Bite Leads to Fire Accident 12 children inside when it caught fire, van didn’t have permit to transport school kids - Express India The Burning Car maruti suzuki swiftzxi. Complaints - running swift caught fire. Was Fiat Grand Punto Caught Fire During Testing ? | Burn Your Fuel 4 charred in BMW blaze, News - City - Ahmedabad Mirror,Ahmedabad Mirror


So how many among us are going to trash Suzuki, Hyndai and others the same way ?

And considering in last few years there have been ~1,100 cases of fire with Ford's vehicles many of which resulted into deaths, why aren't we trashing Ford ?
Anmol: That's a good analysis. If you look at the percentages, percentage of Nanos catching Fire is much less than other brands. Few members including me have tried to underscore that point. We have included a lot of links for that. None of us are asking for Tata to be let free. We are only asking all members to use the same scale to measure all automakers. None of the other automakers are asked to recall or asked for 15 crores of compensation. Some how they enjoy imunity from t-bhp members. As one member has said previously, the atitude is like "as it is a indian company, it is OK to deride it". Members like "soccer" add to the problem making fictious statement. Anyone trying to underscore this point has been derided using some unprofessional language. I see the problem in two parts:

1. Stupid indian media(I can come with hundreds of examples to call indian media stupid) spreads the word as it will give them TRP's.
2. Some members on blogs like t-bhp posting irresponcibly. They post not knowing full detail and at times post to bring down someone.

This makes the people(layman) believe Nano's are the only cars catching fire in world and /or all nano's on the road are going to catch fire. This is nothing but scare mongering.

Any one posting anything other than facts is a another Mamata B for me. As you said earlier, it's the indian mentality which should be trashed.

Last edited by airbender : 13th April 2010 at 00:23.
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Old 13th April 2010, 00:26   #425
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Originally Posted by anmol2k4 View Post
And considering in last few years there have been ~1,100 cases of fire with Ford's vehicles many of which resulted into deaths, why aren't we trashing Ford ?
Certainly not in India. Are you talking about the Pinto? That was 40 years ago. As far as I remember, the only major safety issue that Ford has had in the last decade is the Explorer-Firestone issue. And please give us a link for your info.

Last edited by Gilead : 13th April 2010 at 00:27.
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Old 13th April 2010, 00:59   #426
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Everytime Tata is mentioned here, there is this link to India being created. As if my patriotism is linked to Tata & depends on my supporting the company.
First of all, if any one is supporting Nano or Tata, why do you think it is because of patriotism. If so, why is CPH supporting Nano. Why are so many FII's buying into Tata Motors. No one is asking you to support Tata because they are Indian. Treat them the way you treat others.

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Are we living in the pre-Independence era where using foreign stuff was not a done thing ?
No one is saying this. Foreign stuff is welcome here just the same way Indian stuff is welcome abroad. It's the belief that anything foreign is good that is opposed here.

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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Nano is an Indian creation, true. Ingenuity ? Don't know. At 1lakh, it can be called ingenuity, but I read about Nano's costing 2lakhs+. No ingenuity there - it sounds like "promising a cheap product and delivering at higher cost".
Nano base variant sells at 1 lakh. Even at 2 lakhs nano is lot cheaper(with more features) than the cheapest car in India. I would be a fool to expect a topend Nano to be sold at 1 lakh. Look at the BS4 Alto. A new version but the cabin feels cheaper than nano.

First Pics-2010 BS 4 alto



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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
What is Tata ? One of the many Indian companies. That's about it. They are here to do business, make a profit. Just like any other company. If they do good, praise them like you would any other car company. If they screw up, they would be berated here like any other car company. Please don't link my patriotism to supporting/berating a car company.
The statement in bold is not happening. THey seem to be getting more than the fair share of critics. Why are people deriding Nano for two fires when they don't even blink an eye lid for all other car fires. Almost all major car makes have reported more than two fires. So many people died in those car fires but every one only bothers to deride only nano. There's a good chance that the brand you drive had more car fires than nano. Do you even know about it? If yes, did you bother to post the same way you did on this thread.



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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
1100 Fords catching fire ? Where was this ? Not in India, I am sure because we would surely have known if that many cars from a manufacturer caught fire.
He is pointing out the fires world wide. How many Fords are sold in India for 1100 to catch fire.

Last edited by airbender : 13th April 2010 at 01:06.
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Old 13th April 2010, 01:23   #427
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And you are sadly mistaken about the foreign fetish thing. It might have been true 15 or 20 years ago when "going abroad" used to be a big deal.
I totally disagree with you on this count. Indians leaving India for overseas has actually multiplied from 15 to 20 years ago. Look at the students in UK, Ireland or Australia. Colleges in Australia are not much better than the one in India. But still there are thousands of indians in AUS. Even New Zealand is not spared. If you work with an IT outsourcing vendor you will know this for sure. Even in such a bad economy in USA, 19000 H1-Bs are filled in just one week. Few years back 65000 H1-B's were filled in just few days(less than one week)Going abroad is even bigger than what it was 20 years ago. But this is because of not having oppourtunity in india(job or scope for education).

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Indians have become a lot smarter since then. Now its all about "value for money", irrespective of the "made in ......" label.
One example to prove this wrong: Mcdonalds and Burger King are considered cheap and unhealthy food in US. Lot of court cases on them saying their food is making people obese and unhealthy. But in Indian, every time I see a Mac or BK they are full of crowd even though they are much expensive by indian standards.

THe garments we buy in USA are made in either India or Bangladesh or China. Ex: Gap. If we go to GAP showroom in India, they are much expensive than in USA. Why? Just BCOZ people are buying it. I have already quoted the example of Auto's on this thread.

I can give you thousands of examples for foreign fetish. But this is not the right thread.

The word foreign is a sales gimmick used by every sales person in india.

Last edited by airbender : 13th April 2010 at 01:40.
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Old 13th April 2010, 03:33   #428
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The word foreign is a sales gimmick used by every sales person in india.
In which part of India? Probably in villages where people do not know any better perhaps. I have never had an experience in which a Sales Person has pointed out that some thing is "foreign" to me. Also, some of your other justifications are hilarious - H1B filling up (they did not - for a long time this year actually) is not because of a foreign craze - it is purely because more than 80% of India's software exports are to US so naturally Indian companies want to sent their people there.


As for McDonalds, there is a rush because of the novelty and people have more money to spend. Nobody is going to McDonalds to have "healthy" ghar ka Khana - everybody knows that it is junk food.
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Old 13th April 2010, 03:56   #429
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In which part of India? Probably in villages where people do not know any better perhaps. I have never had an experience in which a Sales Person has pointed out that some thing is "foreign" to me. Also, some of your other justifications are hilarious - H1B filling up (they did not - for a long time this year actually) is not because of a foreign craze - it is purely because more than 80% of India's software exports are to US so naturally Indian companies want to sent their people there.


As for McDonalds, there is a rush because of the novelty and people have more money to spend. Nobody is going to McDonalds to have "healthy" ghar ka Khana - everybody knows that it is junk food.
I never linked H1b fillup or overseas students to foreign craze. I was only giving some data to the member who was saying indians are not looking to go overseas. Read my last statement in that para. The other two examples of Mac and GAP, I do. The word foreign is most often used when the buyer does not know which one is foreign which one is desi. This is true when it comes to appliances. When it comes to cars every one knows that.

Last edited by airbender : 13th April 2010 at 04:03.
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Old 13th April 2010, 04:34   #430
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Some people seem not to undwerstand theheading of the thread.

This is not a thread about Indians or blooming foreigners.

This is about the Tata Nano.

And the thread is about whether the fire is an isolated case or the norm.

And anyone who wants to claim that 2 cases out of 30,000 is the norm either is a complete idiot or does not know what the question is about.

All the know it alls I invite to create a car and produce it at the cost Tata does the Nano.

I am not Indian and I do not care whether anyone is or not but Tata has done something no other company has achieved.

And anyone here does not need to teach me anything about enginerring in the automotive industries.

I think I have to make that one clear: You know it alls would never get a job from me as you can talk but not produce results.

I am ashamed that I have to discuss such a topic with most of the people on a negative level, which is a disgrace for the Indian background and mentality. If I were Indian I would be ashamed!!! I have no repsect for this, but I have a lot of respect for real Indians like Ratan Tata who has achieved something.

And all of you constantly negative arguing and know it all people should be ashameed of yourselves because it is you who tarnish the Indian reputation on the automotive market and not Tata!
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Old 13th April 2010, 05:00   #431
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@CPH Peace my friend!! I agree with you and airbender that we are way OT here.

Now coming back to Nano - when it was conceived and launched, Nano got unprecedented publicity in India and world wide and rightly so, as it was considered a game changer in the auto industry. People who did not even know that India exists, heard about India, the Tata's and the Nano. So it stands to reason that any perceived defect or issue with the Nano will also get wide publicity. It has nothing to do with Indian V/S foreign. I only wish that Tata's were a little more responsive and thier PR was a little better that what it is.

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Old 13th April 2010, 09:03   #432
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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Everytime Tata is mentioned here, there is this link to India being created. As if my patriotism is linked to Tata & depends on my supporting the company.
In my personal opinion, there is nothing to be gained by taking this to a extreme. Neither should anyone say that one's patriotism is linked to Tata, nor should anyone berate a home grown company beyond a point when criticism no longer remains constructive. A case in point is Greenhorn and VinayDas's posts(couple of pages back), both of whom are usually quite critical of Tata. Yet one said that there is something fishy about the whole thing (may or may not be true) and the other said that it most probably is a QC issue. It might just turn out that one of them is right.
The point I am trying to make is that we can all throw in ideas about what caused this, but we shouldn't go overboard (in criticism or praise) until we really come to know the cause.

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And "engineering". Now we must be surely joking. Let Tata first properly "engineer" their flagship SUV retailing at close to a million rupees and make it niggle-free. Then we can come down to "engineering" the 1-lakh Nano.
In this case I totally agree with. Maybe not quite. You see, I raised this point in the Safari Technical Niggles thread and said that it's quite funny how Tata has not really paid enough attention to the Safari, they never have really bothered to truly upgrade the car (the engine yes, but the rest is almost the same from 12 years back). Having driven the Indica (pre-V2) for close to 10K kilometres, every couple of them shaking my head as to how bad the car was (My Dad's car was a Black Baleno VXi, and believe me I became jealous for a while ), I was amazed by how good the Vista is.

I test drove the car the day it was launched. I remember thinking how Tata has been able to come up with a car that I can buy without purely thinking about gas mileage or initial cost. Since then, they've come out with the Manza, judging by the reports on tbhp, it's a good car.

Is there any doubt in your mind that they've made phenomenal progress in the past 12 years? That their engineering has indeed come along a fair way? Check out the Manza one day, then go for a drive in the Dezire, you'll see that it stacks up extremely well.

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What is Tata ? One of the many Indian companies. That's about it. They are here to do business, make a profit. Just like any other company.
Correct me if you think I quoted you out of context, but this is something I have to disagree with completely. You need to re-look at what the House of the Tata's has done for India before branding them as "one of many Indian companies". I consider them to be the "greatest" Indian company, in values and spirit both. I am sure that statement is going to get me flamed, but I think it's true.

I will agree with you when you say that the Nano is not a philanthropic venture, of course, that would be unfair to the shareholders. While the Rs. 2lakh price tag might seem double of the promised amount, it is still great value for money.

Let us all wait for a while before jumping the gun. My childhood friend worked on the Nano project for a year just before it's launch(funnily enough, he works for Honda now), and he said that the Nano was tested like crazy. If there were any engineering issues, I am reasonably sure that it would have turned up.
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Old 13th April 2010, 09:29   #433
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I totally disagree with you on this count. Indians leaving India for overseas has actually multiplied from 15 to 20 years ago. Look at the students in UK, Ireland or Australia. Colleges in Australia are not much better than the one in India. But still there are thousands of indians in AUS. Even New Zealand is not spared. If you work with an IT outsourcing vendor you will know this for sure. Even in such a bad economy in USA, 19000 H1-Bs are filled in just one week. Few years back 65000 H1-B's were filled in just few days(less than one week)Going abroad is even bigger than what it was 20 years ago. But this is because of not having oppourtunity in india(job or scope for education).
You countered your own argument in your last line above. I said going abroad is no longer a big deal because it has become a very commonplace thing. Earlier, the badge of "foreign returned" carried a premium. Not any more. Every Tom, Dick and Harry (or in our case, Timmy, Dicky and Hariya) here is now able to travel outside India. The numbers are huge because, as you said, lack of opportunity in India. It has nothing to do with "foreign fetish".


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One example to prove this wrong: Mcdonalds and Burger King are considered cheap and unhealthy food in US. Lot of court cases on them saying their food is making people obese and unhealthy. But in Indian, every time I see a Mac or BK they are full of crowd even though they are much expensive by indian standards.

THe garments we buy in USA are made in either India or Bangladesh or China. Ex: Gap. If we go to GAP showroom in India, they are much expensive than in USA. Why? Just BCOZ people are buying it. I have already quoted the example of Auto's on this thread.

I can give you thousands of examples for foreign fetish. But this is not the right thread.

The word foreign is a sales gimmick used by every sales person in india.
I didn't even know there is Burger King in India!!
Besides, Indians love to eat. Right from the aloo tikki at the corner to the all night cafes in 5 stars.
And if you see someone wearing a Gap or Tommy shirt, chances are he bought it from the pavement vendor at dirt cheap prices
I think you are grossly under-estimating the amount of thought an Indian puts into each rupee that he spends. I say the "foreign fetish" trait is a thing of the past because back then, sporting something bought from "phoren" used to get attention, used to stand out, because it was rare. Now, its commonplace. No one gives it even a second glance (unless, its cheaper, of course)!
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Old 13th April 2010, 09:51   #434
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I think I have to make that one clear: You know it alls would never get a job from me as you can talk but not produce results.
As opposed to you who has been very silent and showing us superbly conclusive results.

Oh wait a minute...
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Old 13th April 2010, 11:55   #435
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As opposed to you who has been very silent and showing us superbly conclusive results.

Oh wait a minute...
You talk about the issue with your naive conclusions having never investigated the cause of an accident let alone a fire to establish the cause. Your only experience could stem from Bollywood and Hollywood, which hardly represents any relevance to real life.

Unlike you myself and a few other people have got the experience and know what it is involved and this is the reason why we have respect for Tata and not the arrogance you display.

You are just an armchair warrior with theories and no practical experience.

At the same time you want to put words in my mouth and try to twist my sentences and yet talk about conclusive results.

I am not part of the investigation and do not know, what the cause of the ftwo fires was, but I do know quite a bit about what it wasn't, which is quite important for any investigation, but you wouldn't understand the signifcance.

One day you will hit the real world. Then you might grow up and realise that you aren't all knowing, almighty and immortal.

Maybe then you will realise what a great achievement the Nano is and that you are incapable to even only replicate this concept if you then have the humility. This you haven't and this is the reason why you wouldn't accept that the fires aren't the norm.

But whatever facts anyone would bring, you are always right and think you are the smartest person in town. The Nano can't argue against that.
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