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Old 13th April 2010, 12:04   #436
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@CPH, would really appreciate you and McLaren Rulez conversing via private messages.
Kindly don't be offended, but once personal attacks start, it's very hard to get back to the topic and reduces a thread to a mud slinging match. We would much rather share and read about your insight about probable causes of the fire (some you have already mentioned) and what might be the solutions.

We are all aware that this is a speculative thread (no one knows for sure what caused the fire) and we can try and figure out what might be the reason. Pictures by SVSantosh of his Nano's engine bay might be useful.
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Old 13th April 2010, 12:37   #437
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@CPH Peace my friend!! I agree with you and airbender that we are way OT here.

Now coming back to Nano - when it was conceived and launched, Nano got unprecedented publicity in India and world wide and rightly so, as it was considered a game changer in the auto industry. People who did not even know that India exists, heard about India, the Tata's and the Nano. So it stands to reason that any perceived defect or issue with the Nano will also get wide publicity. It has nothing to do with Indian V/S foreign. I only wish that Tata's were a little more responsive and thier PR was a little better that what it is.
I agree with your statement. And I have no problem with the publicity. Such things should not be ignored. But I resist the arrogance some people have.

I am soon completing 31 years of experience in the field. I am well aware how complex the problems can be. I am well aware what Tata has to content with. And I am not in love with Tata.

Interestingly the greatest experts on the Nano have never owned one and virtually know nothing about it. But they blame Tata.

How many people know who designed the engine for the Nano?

After all the fire started in the engine bay. According to the assumption of quite a few people it is a design fault despite the fact that it two out of 30,000+ cars.

Still, we assume it is a common design fault. Again, who designed the engine?

It wasn't Tata.

It was no less than FEV.

FEV comes into the investigation too. Tata is attacked for not responding. Why don't people ask why FEV isn't responding either?

The engine isn't the only component in the engine bay that isn't designed by Tata. They have to come into the investigation too.

The clear cut case is not that clear cut anymore.

And Tata can't go out and make any claims right now as every single supplier has got their part to play and if Tata makes the wrong statement a lot more things can happen.

On the global stage nothing is at risk at this moment in time. Tata has worried the automotive scene all over the world. Europe's automotive industries is glad that we won't see the Nano before 2011 and they are busy working on strategies not to loose out on the Nano success. And the few fires make it not easier, because the European thinking is allowing for problems with new products.

And again: If I as a non Indian would run down the Nano without real reason because of two fires and 3 smoking steering columns, wouldn't you see this as anti Indian? Wouldn't I be wrong?

What makes it right to run down Tata on the Nano then?

If you look at the sites I put links up then you will see that Tata is not worse than other companies and that there is many cars out there that shouldn't be in the first place.
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Old 13th April 2010, 12:50   #438
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Originally Posted by Amartya View Post
@CPH, would really appreciate you and McLaren Rulez conversing via private messages.
Kindly don't be offended, but once personal attacks start, it's very hard to get back to the topic and reduces a thread to a mud slinging match. We would much rather share and read about your insight about probable causes of the fire (some you have already mentioned) and what might be the solutions.

We are all aware that this is a speculative thread (no one knows for sure what caused the fire) and we can try and figure out what might be the reason. Pictures by SVSantosh of his Nano's engine bay might be useful.
I am not offended at all by what you are saying.

The reason why I made it so clear in the open forum is because this is one important point of the whole issue: Arrogance.

The last person to question me is McLaren Rulez and yet he does. He is talking about points where I am sitting in the middle of it and he is thousands of km away. This is detrimental for the fact finding. And I only highlighted his reasoning. This sort of action diverts from the subject, but at the same time fuels the bad press in a way that isn't right.

Pictures of the fire will only give a 2 dimensional view. They will help investigators who have seen the real thing, but aren't enough for even me to assess the situation.

All we can do at the moment is eliminating possible causes.
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Old 13th April 2010, 13:07   #439
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Originally Posted by CPH View Post
I am not offended at all by what you are saying.

The reason why I made it so clear in the open forum is because this is one important point of the whole issue: Arrogance.

The last person to question me is McLaren Rulez and yet he does. He is talking about points where I am sitting in the middle of it and he is thousands of km away. This is detrimental for the fact finding. And I only highlighted his reasoning. This sort of action diverts from the subject, but at the same time fuels the bad press in a way that isn't right.

Pictures of the fire will only give a 2 dimensional view. They will help investigators who have seen the real thing, but aren't enough for even me to assess the situation.

All we can do at the moment is eliminating possible causes.
I started the thread quite a long while back, and have been very amused with your defence of Tata, which is in your opinion, has a very tough task of analyzing the failure.
However, I can be reasonably certain that you have never owned a Tata vehicle.
for a moment, forget about the word "fire".
Just think about quality.
Why does a car catch fire? Because some component was not upto the mark.
A lot of vehicles have faulty components, but do all of them catch fire? Well no.
So we can safely assume, that its more of a bad luck that this particular faulty component caused an actual fire, which lead to media all over the world in a frenzy.

Now you may also wonder why is everyone here piling on Tata. Is it because 2 cars out of 30,000 caught fire. Surely its a small sample? Right?

No, its not the fire. Its about the whole Tata quality issues. There are hundreds of members on this forum who own tata cars. I am one of them. Many of these members own the most expensive vehicle Tata makes(the safari), and I am one of them.
Its not a 1 lakh vehicle, it costs 10 times as much.

Yet, no matter which vehicle from Tata, be it the cheapest car it produced before Nano(3 lakh indica) or the most expensive(10L+ safari), every single owner, or atleast 95%+ owners have experienced faults in their vehicle, which have ranged from niggles(eg brake light stops working) to actual breakdowns(some sensor went kaput and engine died and refused to start).

With such a track record, and entire threads dedicated to common problems and solutions, not to mention countless ownership threads asking for email ids of Tata higher ups so that problems can be escalated, tata does not really enjoy the benefit of doubt, esp in the Indian context.

People ask this question
10 year with the indica, yet it still has quality issues
10 years + with the safari, yet it must keep going back to the service center for retro this and retro that
How is it possible, that the nano can be right in first shot.

You are in the business of tuning cars, right? Lets say you deal with a company which makes turbochargers.
You sign a deal, and realize that initially, there is a high failure rate, and company takes many design revisions to fix the issue and its fixed.
5 years later they come out with a new model turbo, which again has failure and reliability issues, which of course are fixed after 3-4 revisions
Now a new model comes out, and it catches fire. Where would your first thought go? You must have fixed it wrongly? or the company has goofed up again.

The analogy I have given may not be perfect, but you get the drift.
This is the reason people are jumping to conclusions. The reason is Tata track record. Tata has been delivering faulty vehicles with design flaws revision after revision, and then recalling them to workshop to get retro done.

So people ask, how and why is it possible that Nano is not defective in the first go. In a rear engine car in a tight engine bay the same fault which leads just a minor fuel leak in front engined cars may lead to fire.

For example Tata Indigo petrol. The earlier batch had an issue where some cars developed fuel leakage due to improper position of pipe, and subsequent rubbing against an engine support etc., The fuel leaked would fall to the ground without touching hot engine. No fire. But tata fixed that problem in later models. Not all earlier models got this issue. Only 1 out of maybe thousand. But Tata still did the retro since it was a design flaw.


Imagine such a fault in a rear engined car with a tight engine bay.
The fault may be with the dealership who may have left cardboard pieces used while transporting in the engine bay. But then the fault may be a design fault.
As of today its speculation. But whenever such a thing happens, the company's track record is always looked at. Tata has failed the buyer many times, hence the level of "trust" is low.

sometimes when product is good, dealerships mess things up by their incompetence, and sometimes the product itself is faulty right out of showroom. Nevertheless, dealerships are the face of the manufacturer, and if they falter, the blame must be taken by the mfr!

Its not immaturity, its purely the experience people have with Tata in India. But you have never owned a Tata, so you will never know whats it like to own a Tata!
Hope this post will explain to you, why "wild accusations" and "assumptions" are being made.
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Old 13th April 2010, 13:20   #440
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So, if just 2 cars of 30K catch fire, it is not a big issue. Because it looks more like an exception than the norm. OK, now put yourself in the shoes of the poor sod who saved up money to buy that Nano and imagine what would go through him when he is not even able to get home from the showroom in a brand-new car ? Try telling him that, "Hey, yours just happened to be 1 of 15K cars that caught fire. Bad luck, but move on. And be proud that you were associated with the prestigious Nano project".

I know of cars catching fire in Chennai - Ikons, Indicas, Cielos, Omnis, Scorpios, i10 etc. But AFAIK none of them were brand-new. And in most cases, the cause was attributed to either unprofessional LPG kit fitment or short-circuit due to shoddy fitment of accessories.

This IMO is what separates the Nano fires from other cars. People look at it as a new car catching fire and hence the reaction. Add low-cost to the equation and people would go, "Hey, it was built to a price. What more to expect?". Maybe not the right reaction, but that is what would happen.

@CPH, are you working on investigating the Nano fires ? If not, you are just about as clued-in or clue-less as anyone else here. And why is it that when you make a point, it is valid, but when anyone else does, it is arrogance and idiocy ? In this thread, it is mostly your comments that reek of these attributes.

I have read your posts on other threads and do admire your technical knowledge, but that does not mean that no one else can have a view which does not sync with your own.

And anyway neither sides have any real facts to put forth on this thread. greenhorn put forth a hunch that someone could be sabotaging the Nano effort. This cannot be ruled out, true. But neither is there any proof for this. So, it is just a hunch for now. Since you are so hung up on facts, I assumed you would refute that, but no. It does not suit your cause.
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Old 13th April 2010, 13:25   #441
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@tsk1979 - I get the drift.

Yes, I am doing performance tuning but am also an automotive consultant.

I have at no point stated that Tata is perfect.

In 2007 Daimler Chrysler (Mercedes) was every single day in the national news because of quality issues, that led to fires in different models, brake failures and many less dangerous faults. Mercedes treated many of theri customers like rubbish. Since 1986 Mercedes went downhill on the customer satisfation scale. Many people died all over the wrold due to design flaws.

One client of mine who runs big fleets of cars and trucks has ditched Ford because of too many issues and them not dealing with it.

The reality is that all manufacturers ahve flaws on a constant basis. Just read the sites I quoted.

I am not taking things lightly, but what is fair has got to be fair. You can blame Tata for what it has done.

But you people are partly responsible. I even offered to help shape an organisation that forces improvement. Result was that two persons responded positively.
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Old 13th April 2010, 14:54   #442
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Originally Posted by CPH View Post
But you people are partly responsible.
Could you please clarify this bit ? Thanks
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Old 13th April 2010, 15:06   #443
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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
So, if just 2 cars of 30K catch fire, it is not a big issue. Because it looks more like an exception than the norm. OK, now put yourself in the shoes of the poor sod who saved up money to buy that Nano and imagine what would go through him when he is not even able to get home from the showroom in a brand-new car ? Try telling him that, "Hey, yours just happened to be 1 of 15K cars that caught fire. Bad luck, but move on. And be proud that you were associated with the prestigious Nano project".

I know of cars catching fire in Chennai - Ikons, Indicas, Cielos, Omnis, Scorpios, i10 etc. But AFAIK none of them were brand-new. And in most cases, the cause was attributed to either unprofessional LPG kit fitment or short-circuit due to shoddy fitment of accessories.

This IMO is what separates the Nano fires from other cars. People look at it as a new car catching fire and hence the reaction. Add low-cost to the equation and people would go, "Hey, it was built to a price. What more to expect?". Maybe not the right reaction, but that is what would happen.

@CPH, are you working on investigating the Nano fires ? If not, you are just about as clued-in or clue-less as anyone else here. And why is it that when you make a point, it is valid, but when anyone else does, it is arrogance and idiocy ? In this thread, it is mostly your comments that reek of these attributes.

I have read your posts on other threads and do admire your technical knowledge, but that does not mean that no one else can have a view which does not sync with your own.

And anyway neither sides have any real facts to put forth on this thread. greenhorn put forth a hunch that someone could be sabotaging the Nano effort. This cannot be ruled out, true. But neither is there any proof for this. So, it is just a hunch for now. Since you are so hung up on facts, I assumed you would refute that, but no. It does not suit your cause.
I am not involved in the investigation of the fires.

However, I can render a number of statements wrong.

If components go wrong then from experience you can attribute this to a design flaw when a certain percentage of the parts go wrong.

Thirty thousand cars have covered miliions of kms and nothing has happened. Weak components would go after all this time. But only 2 fires happened in the first few kilometers.

30,000 cars right 2 wrong = design flaw. I don't thnik so and I am sure I am not the only one.

One of the 2 cars was driven from the dealer sitting there for ages. Nobody knows what was done to the car or wasn't done to the car.

The other one was only briefly reported. Not much information apart from that it was driven from the factory to the dealer.

Tata being in the middle of an investigation of a car that seems to have an odd history being confronted with a second one which wasn't sitting at a dealer for a long time because it never saw a dealer.

Now you tell me what the 2 cars have in common to get ablaze. And then tell me what they haven't got in common.

Then a fire doesn't leave a lot. What is burnt is gone. You can't get it back. According to statistics we have to wait for another 15,000 cars to get another fire. But then statistics is a double edged sword.

If more cases would have come up and those much earler then some defective cars could have been identified before they can catch fire. Obviously it is not as straight forward then a lot of people want to make out.

Unfortunately I can't rule out sabotage. Sabotage is a daily applied sport in racing. It is going on inany industries. I can't prove it in the Nano's case, but I can't rule it out.

The possibilities why the car caught fire are too many. I have done enough investigation in my life (which is part of my job in the automotive field) to be able to make comments.

And what I called idiocy and arrogance is the attitude of people who have go no clue at all and rediculing things I have experienced personally in my over 30 years of automotive engineering, consultancy, development work, investigation and performance development.

Something does not suit my cause?

I have no interest in Tata at this moment in time other that I will buy one when it will be released in 2011 in Europe. And even if it goes up in flames I will buy another one or hope that Tata will replace the one.
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Old 13th April 2010, 15:12   #444
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well i think the discussions here have gone overboard. as much i would love to join you guys on this ride , I think it would be better if the mods close this thread until there is any concrete evidence from either TATA or the Investigators who are handling the case.

Thanks.
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Old 13th April 2010, 15:16   #445
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Could you please clarify this bit ? Thanks
The English moan and don't do anything about it. At the moment Britain is a couple of weeks from the next general election. The government is rendered rubbish everywhere you go. Still people think of voting them in again.

What is the moaning good for?

The English don't like the French.

But the French show them what to do. They organise themselves and force the government to act.

You people moan too. Nobody cares about us car owners. Of course nobody does. If you don't care yourself how can others. Quite simple.

A lot of people have not even responded to organising yourself and demanding an institution.

I do understand that people might not know how to do it, but even that was offered.

It is certainly not my fault that you haven't got a working and effective governing body. I can't force this through for obvious reasons. I can only help, but even this wasn't wanted.
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Old 13th April 2010, 19:48   #446
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A lot of people have not even responded to organising yourself and demanding an institution.

I do understand that people might not know how to do it, but even that was offered.

It is certainly not my fault that you haven't got a working and effective governing body. I can't force this through for obvious reasons. I can only help, but even this wasn't wanted.
As i said earlier to make the changes why don't we discuss it. Earlier sidindica has started it but there is not much response. I request CPH to discuss this on that thread , for the benefit of all of us here.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...istration.html (Should India have anti-lemon laws and a vehicle quality monitoring administration ?)

Yes, i'm one of the guy who doesn't know how to do it.
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Old 13th April 2010, 20:42   #447
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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
So, if just 2 cars of 30K catch fire, it is not a big issue.
Can you please specify who is saying this? I never read anywhere on the thread that 2 cars is ok. Another case of putting words into ones mouth.


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Originally Posted by CPH View Post

But you people are partly responsible. I even offered to help shape an organisation that forces improvement. Result was that two persons responded positively.
People are not partly but fully responsible. Unfortunetly this is the sad story in India. No one cares to do anything that matters. All we care is to rant. It's the famous Chalta Hai atitude of Indians. We see people losing their lifes because of this atitude but we do nothing about it. Guys, it's not too late. Let's(40000+ t-bhp community) do something.

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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post

greenhorn put forth a hunch that someone could be sabotaging the Nano effort. This cannot be ruled out, true. But neither is there any proof for this. So, it is just a hunch for now.
Singur was a sabotage. Was there any proof? Even if there is a sabotage I do not expect to see the proof in India.



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Originally Posted by Amartya View Post

In this case I totally agree with. Maybe not quite. You see, I raised this point in the Safari Technical Niggles thread and said that it's quite funny how Tata has not really paid enough attention to the Safari, they never have really bothered to truly upgrade the car (the engine yes, but the rest is almost the same from 12 years back). Having driven the Indica (pre-V2) for close to 10K kilometres, every couple of them shaking my head as to how bad the car was (My Dad's car was a Black Baleno VXi, and believe me I became jealous for a while ), I was amazed by how good the Vista is.

I test drove the car the day it was launched. I remember thinking how Tata has been able to come up with a car that I can buy without purely thinking about gas mileage or initial cost. Since then, they've come out with the Manza, judging by the reports on tbhp, it's a good car.

Is there any doubt in your mind that they've made phenomenal progress in the past 12 years? That their engineering has indeed come along a fair way? Check out the Manza one day, then go for a drive in the Dezire, you'll see that it stacks up extremely well.
Tata has indeed made a lot of progress. Vista, Manza & Nano are a proof of that. They are selling in good numbers and the ownership reports on this forum are a good indication of that. Even considering the price at which Nano sells, none of the nano owners on t-bhp have reported any problems. Yet some people prefer to live in the past than look at the present. Tata is not perfect even today. But they have made a lot of progress in a short span of time.

Honda's, toyota's and hyundai's were considered disposable cars when they were launched in western markets. They have made a lot of progress from there. Every automaker in the VFM segment starts off the same way(name one who started with zero niggles if you can). Only some improve with time. Only they will survive. I can see Tata has made a lot progress. If only we stand up and take notice.





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Originally Posted by Amartya View Post
Correct me if you think I quoted you out of context, but this is something I have to disagree with completely. You need to re-look at what the House of the Tata's has done for India before branding them as "one of many Indian companies". I consider them to be the "greatest" Indian company, in values and spirit both. I am sure that statement is going to get me flamed, but I think it's true.


I will agree with you when you say that the Nano is not a philanthropic venture, of course, that would be unfair to the shareholders. While the Rs. 2lakh price tag might seem double of the promised amount, it is still great value for money.
65% percent of Tata group shares are held by charity organizations. That's in a country where charity is a rarity. Not one big company in the world does this. Ratan Tata being a chairman of a $80 billion empire is not himself a billionaire(he also inherited some property). Tata group was the first in the world to start 8 hour work rule. I can go write thousand lines in favor of that group. Does all this mean I am asking you to do a favor by buying Tata? Never. Even Ratan Tata himself would not say that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amartya View Post
Let us all wait for a while before jumping the gun. My childhood friend worked on the Nano project for a year just before it's launch(funnily enough, he works for Honda now), and he said that the Nano was tested like crazy. If there were any engineering issues, I am reasonably sure that it would have turned up.
Thank God, executives at Honda do not have the atitude of some members on this thread. Otherwise he would not have got a job.
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Old 13th April 2010, 20:49   #448
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Some people seem not to undwerstand theheading of the thread.

This is not a thread about Indians or blooming foreigners.

This is about the Tata Nano.

And the thread is about whether the fire is an isolated case or the norm.

And anyone who wants to claim that 2 cases out of 30,000 is the norm either is a complete idiot or does not know what the question is about.

All the know it alls I invite to create a car and produce it at the cost Tata does the Nano.

I am not Indian and I do not care whether anyone is or not but Tata has done something no other company has achieved.

And anyone here does not need to teach me anything about enginerring in the automotive industries.

I think I have to make that one clear: You know it alls would never get a job from me as you can talk but not produce results.

I am ashamed that I have to discuss such a topic with most of the people on a negative level, which is a disgrace for the Indian background and mentality. If I were Indian I would be ashamed!!! I have no repsect for this, but I have a lot of respect for real Indians like Ratan Tata who has achieved something.

And all of you constantly negative arguing and know it all people should be ashameed of yourselves because it is you who tarnish the Indian reputation on the automotive market and not Tata!
Are you stating that we illiterate Indians do not know anything about cars? Because FYI, Tata has had plenty of issues with build quality. Ask anyone, their vehicles are not perfect. Plenty of niggles can be found. But yes, Tata is working hard in rectifying this and until they do, I can confidently say that other manufacturers are superior. So you respect Ratan Tata. Congrats! We all do too. He gave the world its cheapest car. He also bought your 2 prestigious brands. They are Indian now. We are the among the world's largest automobile manufacturers now. Sales are growing and we are very much on the right track to enter the big 3 in a matter of time. Indians are very demanding people when it comes to buying a set of wheels. And major manufacturers have realized this. So do not say that we tarnish the automotive market. We demand and Tata has failed to deliver. So we say that they should be held responsible for the 2 Nano fires. I am not making this personal, but I too feel that a lot of things stated on this thread can't be backed up. So until further update regarding the Nano case, this thread needs to be locked. It is spinning out of control and there is no clear conclusion.
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Old 13th April 2010, 20:58   #449
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Are you stating that we illiterate Indians do not know anything about cars?
Man, what kind of a post is this. Don't you understand english. Where did he say or imply this? I request you to read from the first word to the last before you click on the "quote" button. That post from CPH may hurt some indians but not ones who work to show some result. Not Ratan Tata for sure.
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Old 14th April 2010, 02:31   #450
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Well mates,this is the summary of our thread.

What it is about?

TATA NANO cars getting fires without any provocation otherwise.

How many,which models & where?
1.A newly purchased Nano car that was parked in a housing society in Ahmedabad reportedly caught fire on Sunday morning. No one was hurt in the incident. The car, whose registration number is GJ-1KA-4648, was parked at Vaibhav Gokul bungalows behind Rajpath Club on SG Highway. Local sources said that some technical fault in the car battery had triggered the fire. DNAINDIA 13th(?) Oct 2009,Ahmedabad

2. 3 Nanos catch fire, Tata to do pre-delivery audit,22 nd Oct ,2009, TOI

3.Satish Sawant, an insurance agent, collected his brand new Nano from a showroom in Prabhadevi, and headed home, dreaming of showing off his first car to his family at LIC Colony, Mulund (W).The car burst into flames at Eastern Express Highway. Sawant jumped to safety.(HT, Mumbai, March 22, 2010)

4."One of his neighbors got Nano in Bangalore. They started getting fire (actually its whitish smoke they called it fire) from steering column. So they went to T.A.S.S. They advised rather in a threatening tone "don’t go to media, we will fix it"! They did something and fixed it! My friend did not reveal details of repair or dealer!" 22nd march,posted by recshenoy (2nd page this thread)

5.October 20, 2009: A newly purchased Tata Nano caught fire at a parking lot in Hazratganj, Lucknow. Nobody was hurt

6.October 20, 2009: A Nano belonging to a Delhi businessman caught fire at a parking lot in North Delhi. (Last two news from Mid Day)

7.March,22,2010: Tata Nano bursts into flames – again


Paper cuttings
Courtsey Goes to 14000rpm (first two) and emkay456 (last one)


From: http://www.mid-day.com/imagedata/2010/mar

Apparent cause thought by our Team BHP members
*The biggest disadvantage of placing the engine at the rear is lack of proper cooling. Could this incident have happened due to the inefficient design of the cooling system?(theragingbull)
* In a rear engine car in a tight engine bay the same fault which leads just a minor fuel leak in front engined cars may lead to fire.The fault may be with the dealership who may have left cardboard pieces used while transporting in the engine bay. But then the fault may be a design fault.(Tanveer)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Some Quotes : )

1.
Quote:
The most expensive scale model of a merc can be as expensive as the nano.... makes sense.
By clevermax on "Ravi Suri of Cargo Motors confirmed this and said that the customer was 'blackmailing' the company and demanding a Mercedes as replacement for the Nano."

2.
Quote:
Seems like a good reason to buy a Nano. At least we might get the linea if not the safari.
By esteem_lover on the same issue.

3.
Quote:
I googled for "nano catches fire" and the 2nd result is "iPoD nano catches fire".
By BaCkSeAtDrIVeR on the same issue.

4.
Quote:
On the lighter side, soon TATA will be providing a genuine fire extinguishing accessory for NANO - like a built in water spraying system which gets triggered on smoke and fire
By Clevermax,in this thread

5.
Quote:
There is another possibility of Rat bite causing a faulty wire and Nano might have caught fire on the way.
By Sudan_NFS

6.
Quote:
Being a late entrant does not give any manufacturer the right to use early-bird customers as Guinea pigs.
By Daewood

7.
Quote:
Forget the West. And don't read anything into the West - India situation.
Why do I as a German have to tell an Indian this? Stand up for yourself people!
By CPH

8.
Quote:
"Fire sells" because there are people like me to buy it.
By diffsoft

9.
Quote:
I called the Fiat CEO in public an idiot and don't regret to have done so because he does not care about anything creating too many problems, which might lead to the closure of Alfa Romeo wthout whom Ferrari never would have existed.
By CPH

10.
Quote:
Everytime Tata is mentioned here, there is this link to India being created. As if my patriotism is linked to Tata & depends on my supporting the company.
By SupremeBaleno

11.
Quote:
As for McDonalds, there is a rush because of the novelty and people have more money to spend. Nobody is going to McDonalds to have "healthy" ghar ka Khana - everybody knows that it is junk food.
by chennai-indian

Tanveer,please edit my post where you find its wrong
P.S. NO QUOTE HAS BEEN DONE WITH THE INTENT TO HURT ANYONE,IF ANYONE FEELS IT BAD REPORT TO TSK69 (Tanveer) REQUESTING TO REMOVE IT AND PLEASE PM ME AND GIVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SAY SORRY

Last edited by abhishek_bmw : 14th April 2010 at 02:42.
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