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Old 2nd September 2010, 09:45   #601
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Good post there RKG.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkg View Post
we can only imagine how much media would have hyped the issue if the company were to be TATA TEA
Such an attitude from the media, even though unintentional, is actually good for the Indian industry. Let them walk through fire, live under the microscope and emerge as winners.


Guys, do we really need to spit this much of fire here? 6 fire incidents out of 30,000 Nano cars means 1 in 5000.

Compare that with the Boeing 737, the world's bread n butter airliner:
B737-100 / 200: 1144 built, 106 crashes (1 in 11)!
B737-300 / 400 / 500: 1990 built, 33 crashes (1 in 60)
B737-NG: 3300 built so far, 106 crashes (1 in 471 so far).

Last edited by sandeepmdas : 2nd September 2010 at 09:55.
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Old 2nd September 2010, 14:37   #602
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Taking of quality of cars produced in INDIA and how MNC cars are good in quality here is a first hand account
I have a Indica Vista Q jet, my colleague has i10. while parking in office parking area he just touched my car's right side fender above front tyre. Nothing happened to Indica.

But for i10 the left side fender got dented and caved inside. head light assembly was disturbed. he was driving at a speed of not more than 5-10kmph and the impact was parallel not head on. He has to pay 6k in addition to insurance. car was brand new with not even 200 km on ODO

That incident was an eye opener for me with regard to car safety

If a car can not with stand side & parallel impact at 5-10kmph how it will fare at higher speeds in a highway?

this is for car that costs upwards of 4 lakh and from a reputed international company with highest quality control as against a car that is produced by an Indian company for a cost ignoring passenger safety etc etc etc.

Last edited by rkg : 2nd September 2010 at 14:41.
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Old 2nd September 2010, 15:50   #603
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^no cars can actually withstand side impacts (even 10-15 lacs one).
They are very very weak and cave in pretty easily - harming the driver/passenger.
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Old 2nd September 2010, 16:29   #604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
^no cars can actually withstand side impacts (even 10-15 lacs one).
They are very very weak and cave in pretty easily - harming the driver/passenger.
Are you for real ? What for the side impact bars, anti-rollover bars and those heavy sheet metal gauge doors are ?

There are lot of mass market vehicles which have doors of thin sheet with no impact bars but that does not mean no car has such safety features.

Let me narrate a personal experience , I was in a Logan ( Meru taxi ) while returning for Airport the signals were yellow at around 4:00 in morning.
On a junction taxi driver tried to pass without looking for vehicles coming from side and and a water tanker ( 709 truck) also entered the junction at same time. It hit the taxi from side at very high speed may be the max speed which a tanker truck can achieve on an empty road in morning.

The rear wheel got jammed as it was bent. taxi spun by 180 degree on road Boot caved in but C pillar and door of rear compartment did not cave in , just it was deformed, I survived to tell the tale.

You need to check the thickness of metal sheet on some of the vehicles.
Hint these vehicles are manufactured by some of the companies who are often derided for the quality.

Last edited by amitk26 : 2nd September 2010 at 16:34.
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Old 2nd September 2010, 16:31   #605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
^no cars can actually withstand side impacts (even 10-15 lacs one).
They are very very weak and cave in pretty easily harming the driver/passenger.
Unless one was actually at the site, it difficult to believe that i10 hit Vista

as per the statement above no car can actually withstand side impact, my vista also should have some dent/scratch at least

OR

may be Indica Vista is not up to the so called international standards as it withstood the very low grade side impact unlike i10

One more incident with my VISTA , i was turning right after giving indication at Marthahalli , one bike guy driving at 40-50 Kmph hit me on right bumper. Biker fell, indicator lamp of the bike broken.
For Vista, the bumper came out of the lock partly with the gap between fender and bumper increasing by half centimeter, but still in place , not a scratch, or dent in plastic bumper

Last edited by rkg : 2nd September 2010 at 16:42.
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Old 2nd September 2010, 22:27   #606
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Earlier, it used to be F-brand enthusiasts who cited accidents to prove that their car build quality is well 'tank-like'. Looks like now we have Tata also racing for top-spot. Guys, not sure what is the relevance of these incidents on this thread about fire. Is lack of dent incase of accidents a sign of quality ?

Each accident is unique (what it hit against, the angle, force etc) and just because your car came our unscathed does not mean it is a 'tank'. To give an example, a Mahindra pick-up took a sudden/unannounced U-turn on OMR. I braked but it was too close and my Baleno's left-front side hit the driver door area of the pickup.

I walked out expecting the front-left of my car to be gone - more so with costly SGP components packed at the front. But all I got was a fused left parking bulb and a slightly disaligned bumper, while the door of the pickup got a serious dent. So, does this mean the Baleno is built stronger than a M&M pickup? I just think I was lucky to walk away by replacing a bulb.

@amitk26, I did not bring Safari into the picture - was replying to ACM's post. BTW, if you read Steeroids and tsk's threads, you won't call those issues in the Safari as niggles.

Last edited by supremeBaleno : 2nd September 2010 at 22:29.
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Old 2nd September 2010, 22:29   #607
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I think its human tendency to indulge in brick-batting. Just came across news which involves none other than one of the finest cars in the world.
FiveFWD - Ferrari confirms 458 Italia recall by Fifth Gear
Please have a look and I think we all need to think in positive terms for TATA to learn from Nano fire cases.
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Old 3rd September 2010, 09:44   #608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Earlier, it used to be F-brand enthusiasts who cited accidents to prove that their car build quality is well 'tank-like'. Looks like now we have Tata also racing for top-spot. Guys, not sure what is the relevance of these incidents on this thread about fire. Is lack of dent incase of accidents a sign of quality ?
Surely it does , I survived the accident due to build quality of Logan ( it it Mahindra-Renault vehicle BTW not Tata). Surely same can not be said about any of those tin boxes whose B and C pilliors collepse and manufacturers cut costs.
BTW how many el-chepo Indicabs you have seen with roofs and doors caved in accidental impacts ?

Next time if you open door pad of the your vehicle or any other vehicle just check how much support the outer skin has to prevent caving in of the door from impact. It is definitely and important safety feature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
@amitk26, I did not bring Safari into the picture - was replying to ACM's post. BTW, if you read Steeroids and tsk's threads, you won't call those issues in the Safari as niggles.
So !!! What suspension bush issue or TSK1979's issue with RPM surge due to faulty sensor in Fuel pump has to do with fire incidences ?
.

And before you bring in these two samples do us a favor search for big issues such as break and clutch related in flagship model of your favorite manufacturer on T-BHP.
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Old 3rd September 2010, 10:09   #609
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Notice an odd pattern.

I tend to comment - +ve or -vely on threads pertaining to brands that interest me, brands/models that I could consider or recommend in the future, I kind of avoid posting on threads about cars that least interest me.

Yes one does share info but one also tends to keep one self updated on info pertaining to brands that one finds interesting.

I for example don't particularly fancy the Scorpio due to various reaasons that I won't do into on this thread, but sill admire that it has an AT and is well priced and keep an eye open for new offerings from the Mahindra stable, hoping that something in the future might well click for me.

But not being an owner of one I definately avoid -ve comments about the vechicle, which obviously has +ve that suit others and hence many do go for it.

Keeping objectivity aside, I had often observed that there are a select few who keep posting -ve comments about vechicles / brands that they have never used or have only used in the past when quality and refinement levels were higher or lower.

Obviously one buys (or rather puts ones hard earned money on) vehicles that one believes in, sometimes one is disappointed by the experience and posts regarding the same, at other times one is happy.

But some how don't undertand the fettish to keep going -vely gaga about brands that one has actually never experienced (self or close friend) just based on hearsay.

News media get paid for sensationalizing news items, there is no money in reporting about a defect correction or in stating that all cars have XYZ issues but if one can pin any specific brand to a corner due to circumstances that playout in that manner then it is very much game on for them.

A large number of post about the TATA Nano Fires seem to fall in one of the above categories. No am not pointing a finger at anyone, am only suggesting introspection.

By the way - would consider a TATA nano some day in the future just for the heck of it, it's a car I believe in, and somehow have enough faith in TATA to believe that the issue if genuine would be taken care of by the. Actually would love them to introduce the nano europa with the wider bigger tyres and possibly a larger disel engine out here.

The fuel lines if actually the culpit are being replaced I guess. Yes TATA is responsible for the poor quality of the fuel lines not the supplier, but I dont believe that TATA has compromised safety for price in this issue, I just must be a supplier quality issue that missed their internal evaluation.
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Old 3rd September 2010, 15:29   #610
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Well, it doesn't matter if you pay $2500 or $250000 for a car, they all bust into flames !!

An article in CNN Money today on the latest Ferrari 458 Italia being recalled after several vehicles were reported to have burst into flames.

Ferrari recalling 458 Italia after sudden car fires - report - Sep. 2, 2010
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Old 3rd September 2010, 15:38   #611
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Ferrari 458 vs Tata Nano

Ferrari considered reputable - Tata considered not reputable (don't know why?)

1248 458s delivered - 40.000 Nanos delivered

10 destroyed by fire - 3 Nanos destroyed by fire

Ratio: Ferrari 1:125 - Nano 1:13000

Price ratio Ferrari vs Nano: 115 Nanos for one 458

Ferrari claims only few cars have problems - Tata addresses problems without excuses

Ferrari needs to call all cars back and make revisions. Cars not delivered before the summer break will have improved parts fitted that are partly at fault, but olfficial press releases insist that there is nothing wrong with the parts as they are designed.

The 458 are only supplied since May. The Nano a couple of years.

Would the Ferraris not be recalled possibly half of them would be incinerated soon.

Unlike the Ferrari the Nano is a car that is being used daily in much more adverse condition being at a higher risk of fire.

The Ferrari had till date at least 10 reported fires. For the Nano reaching the same ratio of fires it would have to be at least 300 Nano.

My conclusion for the ones who constantly run down the Nano is that they are negative, not factional and have to be right under all circumstances.

All this talk that Toyotas in India are safe is a load of nonsense. There is enough reports about all sorts of problems for Toyotas and other manufacturers.

Would be good to ponder over this.

Last edited by Eddy : 7th September 2010 at 09:07. Reason: Removing off topic content
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Old 3rd September 2010, 15:50   #612
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Very nice analysis CPH. My own guess is that Nano fires are the cause of cheap after market accessories and not some manufacturing fault.

Ferrari has now announced recall of all Italia 458's as they suspect that a adhesive used in the car may catch fire when heated. So indirectly they have admitted that their cars burned due to a faulty material.

Now the Question is whether Ferrari will replace the cars of those owners whose cars have burnt without their fault on their part.
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Old 3rd September 2010, 16:04   #613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post
Notice an odd pattern.
I tend to comment - +ve or -vely on threads pertaining to brands that interest me, brands/models that I could consider or recommend in the future, I kind of avoid posting on threads about cars that least interest me.

But not being an owner of one I definately avoid -ve comments about the vechicle, which obviously has +ve that suit others and hence many do go for it.
First of all, thank you for penning a crisp and very pragmatic post. Of course, you are right and I agree with you for the most part.
However, I'd just say that even the negative comments, that might seem illogical and sometimes downright offensive serve a purpose for the forum at large. I've had some exchanges -some of them heated - about comments that irked me; what's funny is that I look back upon those as some of the most interesting moments I've spent here.
Because of the stringent rules of the board, people cannot become abusive (on a personal note) and that makes this a platform for great debates. Think about it, without the contribution of people who present a totally opposite point of view (however correct or incorrect they might me in our opinion), there would be nothing to discuss.

On a funnier note, you wouldn't have been motivated to pen a post such as the one I've quoted, without the other posts presenting a different point of view .


Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post
By the way - would consider a TATA nano some day in the future just for the heck of it, it's a car I believe in, and somehow have enough faith in TATA to believe that the issue if genuine would be taken care of by the. Actually would love them to introduce the nano europa with the wider bigger tyres and possibly a larger disel engine out here.

The fuel lines if actually the culpit are being replaced I guess. Yes TATA is responsible for the poor quality of the fuel lines not the supplier, but I dont believe that TATA has compromised safety for price in this issue, I just must be a supplier quality issue that missed their internal evaluation.
I agree with you on this a 100%.
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Old 3rd September 2010, 19:47   #614
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Nice posts from ACM and CPH. It's no fun in filling pages posting point to point. I hope this stops here and we take nano fire as it happened to any other brand car.

@Amartya: Initially when I read your posts I didnot like it but later had a re-think and yes you are indeed making a nice point here. I am a reader but not a typer. If not for some of those posts, i would never have been a member of t-bhp.
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Old 3rd September 2010, 20:40   #615
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It appears from the media reports and posts in team-bhp, TATA has repaid the value of burnt NANO's to the customers.

Compare this with Hyundai India attitude ( reputed MNC with quality cars)
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...gnition-5.html (Hyundai i10 catches fire during ignition!)

Hyundai refused to compensate the customer, and it had the guts to ask him pay for repairs while silently it has put a metal mesh to protect the fuel line in other i10's.

Which company is more customer oriented here?

One more case of i10 fire
http://www.consumercomplaints.in/com...2-c325460.html


Cases of Toyota's service
http://www.consumercomplaints.in/com...r-c274526.html
"i purchased a fortuner reg no DL 3CG 5623 on 1st September'09 on first service I told the service executive that the breaks dont work properly and even after making 6 to 7 complaints/ visit to M/s Uttam Toyota Noida the breaks have not been repaired and i fear that with those breaks i will definately meet with an accident.The service manager told me its a 4x4 vehicle so the breaks will be like this only which is really not justified as I have other 4x4 suv's also"

This kind of behaviour is not restricted to TATA alone. it is common practice in India.

In this forum itself there is a thread where Toyota has to change engine block to some customer because it's outer surface or some thing is not correct and it was noticed in 1st service. How such a thing escaped the QC at factory and also the PDC at dealer?

Toyota’s announcement comes at a time when the company is facing tough times and has problems in India as well. There have been complaints of faulty brakes in Fortuner from 220 customers in India alone. The company is rectifying the brake kit problems on case to case basis. "Therefore, in order to improve customer satisfaction we are only modifying or improving the brakes, therefore this is not a recall. We have received 220 customer feedback till date," a company spokesperson said.
http://www.cartradeindia.com/car-bik...ia-112446.html

220 out of 5k or 10 k fortuners sold . what is ratio of cars with defective brakes?

Last edited by rkg : 3rd September 2010 at 20:50.
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