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Old 23rd March 2010, 16:33   #91
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Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez View Post
You're obviously missing the point. If it can be shown that the Nano clearly has a problem, and that does seem to be the case, I fully expect Tata to both acknowledge and fix it. Telling me that a truck is more likely to run me over is not an excuse.
True true. But how do we know that Nano has a problem?

The Honda City burnt (three again) in Delhi and not an eyebrow was raised. Their explanation that it was wrong installation of accessories was swallowed by word. But somehow Nano does not get any benefit of doubt. Fair enough though. But lets at least allow a fair trial before passing the judgement.

On a side note, even after three City(s) burning down tbhp did not open a thread on safety of Honda whereas a single Nano managed to open the thread. Interesting.
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Old 23rd March 2010, 16:36   #92
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Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez View Post
You're obviously missing the point. If it can be shown that the Nano clearly has a problem, and that does seem to be the case, I fully expect Tata to both acknowledge and fix it. Telling me that a truck is more likely to run me over is not an excuse.
Let me put it your way:

I am neither Indian.

Nor am I a share holder in Tata.

I look at companies like your beloved McLaren, who had more recalls on Fire than the Nano had and Mercedes that churns out rubbish after rubbish and look at it as it is.

We did get the point.

I am talking from professional experience. I had to go through more reports on cars than you can name in a minute or even longer.

Look rather at the 8.5 million death traps Toyota had to call back. They tried to sweep it under the carpet. Why aren't you at their throat.

8.5 million cars that can get out of control at any time and have killed people.

If you would hide the four or five Nanos between that many Toyotas you would never find them.

Can you even comprehend what 8.5 million is? A handful cars you make a big fuss on things that have totally blown out of proportion, when not even anyone was hurt.

Don't ape the American hysteria. Get real for goodness sake.
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Old 23rd March 2010, 16:45   #93
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Nano draws so much attention because it is the cynosure of eyes from all over the world. And I guess we are now crying fowl because we all felt proud of this car directly or indirectly, and can't bear to see it being laughed at by the west. (It is a different matter that we can deride it - it is "our" car!).

I don't think people would fuss so much if this had happened with the Indica Vista or the Indigo manza!

Last edited by Gansan : 23rd March 2010 at 16:47.
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Old 23rd March 2010, 16:49   #94
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Originally Posted by CPH View Post
Look rather at the 8.5 million death traps Toyota had to call back. They tried to sweep it under the carpet. Why aren't you at their throat.

8.5 million cars that can get out of control at any time and have killed people.

If you would hide the four or five Nanos between that many Toyotas you would never find them.

Can you even comprehend what 8.5 million is? A handful cars you make a big fuss on things that have totally blown out of proportion, when not even anyone was hurt.
.
8.5 million cars. How many reportedly faced the issue? Not everyone, correct? If you apply your theory to Nano, 4 reported incidents and 30-40k(dont know how many are on the roads yet) possibly could be acting as killer units. Dont you think so?

We just have to wait it out for TATA's verdict on this issue.
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Old 23rd March 2010, 17:02   #95
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Originally Posted by funkykar View Post
8.5 million cars. How many reportedly faced the issue? Not everyone, correct? If you apply your theory to Nano, 4 reported incidents and 30-40k(dont know how many are on the roads yet) possibly could be acting as killer units. Dont you think so?

We just have to wait it out for TATA's verdict on this issue.
Can you edit your comment to make the word 'possibly' bold?

All the 8.5 million cars are confirmed to be screwed (as we speak the skeletons are tumbling out of the shelf of Toyota). The rest of the Toyotas including the ones on India are possibly screwed. Don't you get the point?
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Old 23rd March 2010, 17:08   #96
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The major problem is the Media would like to sell the story of a Nano catching fire, it sells for them, wether its newspapers, TV prime time ratings or any other vested interests. Considering that why, how or who caused the fire is of least interest to both the News makers and readers, thus there is no info out there. The fame of this car both nationally and globally is well known, so is the fact that the competition still doesnt have a reply to this add to all this the intense political turmoil Tata has undergone in setting up its production. So undoubtedly there are many who would like to see the Nano burning or the related bad name it generates.

But Tata doesnt exactly have a reputation for bullet proof reliability, all BHPians (Tata lovers & haters) accept this fact to varying degrees. Rome wasnt built in a day, neither was the belief that Tata cars can be unreliable. They have made huge strides no doubt but the past is not something they can brush aside.

The onus is on Tata to tell the world what went wrong with these cars. If it was a dealer related problem, a faulty part or even if it is a sabotage, Its best they come out to the open rather than let the media decide what to say.

Despite what some have mentioned, the potential of this car is huge and it will be a sucess in India and in markets abroad, we still have to see the CVT, Diesel and Europa variants. The car will also face various problems on the way, some issues in the hands of Tata and some not, but its best they be open about it rather than do a Toyota and be arm twisted by the public.
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Old 23rd March 2010, 17:10   #97
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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
Nano draws so much attention because it is the cynosure of eyes from all over the world. And I guess we are now crying fowl because we all felt proud of this car directly or indirectly, and can't bear to see it being laughed at by the west. (It is a different matter that we can deride it - it is "our" car!).

I don't think people would fuss so much if this had happened with the Indica Vista or the Indigo manza!
Forget the West. And don't read anything into the West - India situation.

Why do I as a German have to tell an Indian this? Stand up for yourself people!

I WOULD BUY A NANO WITHOUT HESITATION. But only in yellow.

I wouldn't buy a Mercedes in a million years.
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Old 23rd March 2010, 17:21   #98
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Another bit of reporting which shows the hysteria (the last line).

tata nano fire archive at HADNEWS.COM

Why isn't Tata speaking up?
What occurs to me is that the previous cases were of faulty electricals near steering rack and smoke/burning from there and this new one is of fire from the rear. Any more news?
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Old 23rd March 2010, 17:25   #99
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Originally Posted by CPH View Post
Forget the West. And don't read anything into the West - India situation.

Why do I as a German have to tell an Indian this? Stand up for yourself people!

I WOULD BUY A NANO WITHOUT HESITATION. But only in yellow.

I wouldn't buy a Mercedes in a million years.
Hail a foreigner teaching the Indians about Swadeshi-prem.

This the reason these people are much ahead of India despite having limited resources. Even the Koreans favour the Korean products over Japanese despite so called superiority of the Japanese products.

BTW there are enough Indian manufacturers to feed your demand not just Tata.

Further, even CPH has admitted that he would buy a Nano despite 4 Burning Nanos.
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Old 23rd March 2010, 17:28   #100
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Originally Posted by CPH View Post
Why do I as a German have to tell an Indian this? Stand up for yourself people!

I WOULD BUY A NANO WITHOUT HESITATION. But only in yellow.

I wouldn't buy a Mercedes in a million years.
CPH, I dont have an issue standing up for india, but for an indian brand, especially tata, would be quite a different proposition. I wouldn't ask a Japanese dude to stand up for toyota blindly.

I wouldnt buy another tata in a million years myself either. One was enough. And this is the same reason why most of us are apprehensive about standing up. We are all aware of the niggling issues all first generation tata vehicles had. Tata is known as a maker of cheap & hardy vehicles, but is not exactly known as a pinnacle of quality or engineering excellence. After all, When you stand up for something, it should be worth fighting for.

There are many Indian brands I would stand up blindly for. But tata isn't one of them

Last edited by greenhorn : 23rd March 2010 at 17:38.
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Old 23rd March 2010, 17:39   #101
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I have watched this topic and will definitely recommend tata to issue a "stop sale" until all nanos are certified "safe". Whether its a car costing a lakh or a crore, people's lives are precious and important and should be also taken into consideration.

Brand new nano catching fire and that too within 45 minutes is a cause of worry and tata, which already has a crappy reputation for inconsistent quality, should definitely look into this matter and try to find the root cause of the problem.

In addition, I would also like to raise a point-why, as we Indians should give a fair chance to Tata, just because it is an Indian company? We have already given umpteen number of chances to tata and their R and D team never learns from mistakes. Tell me one vehicle that can be perfect in terms of quality from tata?

I am still in support for a quality governing body to be set up like that in western countries and whatever be the manufacturer, whether it is tata or fiat or ford or Toyota/Honda/Hyundai etc, should be treated equally in case their product has quality problems. But unfortunately, this will not happen either, and we people continue to be ripped off by manufacturers just because of lack of "lemon" laws.

Whatever be the cost, people pay hard earned money into buying modes of personal transportation and if this is the case, the investigation should be launched immediately and of course, to Tata, they already had numerous chances, 3 times to be precise, yet may not have managed to come out with a solution.

On the other hand, Lets see how well the aria earns a reputation of quality. Now I too am skeptical.

And I don't feel that news making headlines worldwide should be termed as "selling negative publicity". The world should be aware of whats going on and even if you shout the slogan-you get what you pay for, what if I say that playing with lives of people is priceless? Just ask toyota.

And then You decide.

And to tata motors-can we have an answer or a comment from you ASAP?

Last edited by sidindica : 23rd March 2010 at 17:43.
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Old 23rd March 2010, 17:40   #102
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The general consensus that people here are bashing Tata because its an Indian mfr is plain wrong. On Team BHP if a mfr slips up, people will take them to task. Just because Tata is Indian, should all the problems be brushed under the carpet.
We have had threads about all mfrs where they slipped up.
Some examples I can quote write away
1. Suzuki Swift weak clutch issue
2. Skoda After sales service and general quality issues
3. Threads about limited value proposition of Honda products(over pricing, lack of basic features)
4. Rants against Toyota for not giving rear discs in Fortuner
5. Mitsubishi has been taken to task for having a limited presence, and not upgrading with the times(selling old pajero/nothing new with cedia etc.,)
6. Threads on Mercedes failing quality
7. Thread about poor electricals on Audis
The list goes on and on.
Let me assure you, if the same incident had happened even with a German or Japanese Manufacturer, there would have been a thread criticizing them.
So standing up to "ourselves" is good, but not criticizing a manufacturer because its Indian is not called "Standing up to ourselves".
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Old 23rd March 2010, 17:40   #103
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Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
CPH, I dont have an issue standing up for india, but for an indian brand, especially tata, would be quite a different proposition. I wouldn't ask a Japanese dude to stand up for toyota blindly.

I wouldnt buy another tata in a million years myself either. One was enough. And this is the same reason why most of us are apprehensive about standing up. We are all aware of the niggling issues all first generation tata vehicles had. After all, When you stand up for something, it should be worth fighting for.

There are many Indian brands I would stand up blindly for. But tata isn't one of them
+1 to that. Absolutely Spot on. We don't really want to 'stand-up' for something just because it is 'Indian', but is defective and can kill. We want TATAs to investgate seriously, remove the defects and the doubts that have been created world-wide.
When the Nano was launched, the entire world admired TATAs and we were proud about that. That little wonder machine stole the limelight of almost every auto-show it appeared.
However, when Mr. Ratan Tata stood by the Nano proudly under the limelights, he also has the responsiiblity to answer the questions, clarify the doubts that these incidents has already created.
There is absolutely no issue here about being Indian or Non-Indian in this matter at all.

Last edited by RajaTaurus : 23rd March 2010 at 17:41.
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Old 23rd March 2010, 17:42   #104
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Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
CPH, I dont have an issue standing up for india, but for an indian brand, especially tata, would be quite a different proposition. I wouldn't ask a Japanese dude to stand up for toyota blindly.
Well you can stand up against them freely at-least.

Japanese dude who stood up against Toyota had a misfortune of being jailed
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/06/bu...pagewanted=all

Last edited by amitk26 : 23rd March 2010 at 17:43. Reason: Fixing link
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Old 23rd March 2010, 18:11   #105
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+1 to that. Absolutely Spot on. We don't really want to 'stand-up' for something just because it is 'Indian', but is defective and can kill. We want TATAs to investgate seriously, remove the defects and the doubts that have been created world-wide.
When the Nano was launched, the entire world admired TATAs and we were proud about that. That little wonder machine stole the limelight of almost every auto-show it appeared.
However, when Mr. Ratan Tata stood by the Nano proudly under the limelights, he also has the responsiiblity to answer the questions, clarify the doubts that these incidents has already created.
There is absolutely no issue here about being Indian or Non-Indian in this matter at all.
It wasn't me who was stating that the West is laughing at India. I only responded to it. I am not a nationalist, but believe that we always should stand up fr where we come from in terms of culture etc.

Ratan Tata can not answer questions from newspaper reports. And no news reporter can investigate the problem(s). It is very difficult from a burnt out car to establish the cause. Rushig such an investigation could prove more lethal than a thorough investigation. Making prematuure statements would not aid anything.

I am not an idiot who talks from an arm chair. This is my business. And whether Tata is or ever will be competition of mine is irrelevant. I give respect where it is due and Tata has done a great job.

And why people always have got this reliability problem with Tata? Why haven't they got a problem with Mercedes who is fighting with Toyota for the world championship title for unreliability.

If you read what I was wrintg than you would have possibly understood that that the Nano is by far not the unsafest car ever produced.

McLaren SLRs have been produced in a far lesser number than Nanos in a day and yet more of them caught fire.

Nine people died in a car, which the Mistubishi boss serves life sentences for.

The Toyota issue actually has killed people. There is even a telephone conversation when a passenger made a distress call to 911 in the states with the last seconds of the life of a family recorded.

Toyota has death traps produced prior to that and had even committed criminal offences in Germany to prevent the truth coming out.

Mercedes had cars built that killed people because of flaws, but everyone seems to hail the three pointed star.

Billions of USD have been pais in compensation all over the world by virtually all manufacurers for lives lost.

And you are arguing over a handful of Nanos catching fire. No a single driver, passenger or pedestrian has been killed.

This Nano story is sensationalism.
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