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Old 25th March 2010, 18:11   #31
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Originally Posted by anupam00 View Post
Well Bringing the products as CBU/CKD - is a manufacturers choice - which he does after a market survrey & various other parameters,the manufacturer might think that in case he gets more numbers that he might set up in his production line just FYI- HM does have a Production line -but coming back again to the point that whether they bring CBU/CKD is again - manufacturers choice which is based on various parameter- at the end of the day - manufacturer is also there to make money in the best possible way he thinks.

I agree to the fact that in case local assembling,production & R&D is performed than the cost of the product can be lowered & so more customers - but again that as well as requires cost. (It's like which one came before -hen or egg).

Old product if selling ok might as well bring money to the company,but yes now they are bringing in new product- EVO & Outlander as one example.

But the thread that Hindustan Motors rumoured to exit Car business is just a rumour & nothing else.

Thanks & Regards
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Mitsubishi is no less a brand compared to Nissans and VWs, nor are its products any less. Which means the parameters you mentioned during market surveys remain more or less constant. On the contrary, MM had a distinct advantage of operating out of India, though on on HM's crutches. If the former can set up plants without having sold even a single product in the Indian market, there is a lot that is expected out of MM after their nearly 10 years of existence in India and experience of selling lancer/cedia/pajero!

Good for them they are planning to bring newer products - but how much of those would be able to help them sustain in the long run is a million $$ question.

There is an age old saying - if you stay with those who are lame, you yourself would begin to limp - how very true for HM-MM alliance
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Old 25th March 2010, 18:12   #32
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Mitsu themselves are coming out from near bankrupcy and it doesn't look like India is on their agenda.
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Old 25th March 2010, 19:05   #33
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Even if its a rumor,its bound to happen one day going by the present state of things.The only credible sales of the Amby are in the form of Kolkata cabs.And I don't think they have the capital nor the expertise to expand operations and beef up their product line-up with a volume player,albeit more akin to cars of the 21st century!.A turnaround seems well nigh impossible now.HM should pack up for good.

As for the HM-Mitsu JV,the latter better find a better partner,otherwise its curtains for their India operations as well.But most of all,they don't seem interested in our market either and are stuck with selling either out-dated of overpriced cars.Except the Cedia.

Last edited by AyAn! : 25th March 2010 at 19:06.
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Old 25th March 2010, 19:41   #34
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If true, this wont be surprised. I've said enough before about HM and risk sounding like a broken record.

The only other car companies that thrived and survived solely due to protectionism were those in the Soviet-bloc. Go figure !
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Old 26th March 2010, 01:25   #35
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I doubt it but if the news is true i will celebrate. HM continues to remind me about everything that was wrong with this country while i was growing up.
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Old 26th March 2010, 08:29   #36
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I doubt it but if the news is true i will celebrate. HM continues to remind me about everything that was wrong with this country while i was growing up.
Absolutely. Agree with you.

I grew up in the '70s & '80s when HM's Amby and the Premier Padmini/Fiat 1100 ruled the roost. And how! I remember waiting periods for these cars and high resale values for even 3-6 year old vehicles as there was simply no choice and the the feeling was the older models were better built. The difference between a Mk 1 or Mk 2 meant changing a few electrical fittings and sticking a new decal on the fender.

There is a twinge of nostalgia for me when I talk about these cars having been driven around by my Dad in these machines. These cars together with my father's Toyota Corona (a spaceship by comparison to the Padmini/Amby) are responsible for my love of cars.

HM and PAL took Indians for for a ride (no pun here) with shoddily made products. I know of dealers via personal experience who asked customers to top up engine oil right after delivery at the nearest petrol pump. Parts missing during delivery were promised at the 1st service and never fitted.

Both mfrs deserve/deserved to go the way of the Dodo. They epitomise the ills of that era.

Cheers!

Last edited by R2D2 : 26th March 2010 at 08:31.
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Old 26th March 2010, 09:33   #37
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Mitsus have individual dealerships in kerala atleast, where they do not sell any HM cars. The place where i get my lancer serviced has exclusive mitsu servicing facility.

But i am afraid mitsu might not stay in india if HM shuts shop. I think there is a link between mitsu staying away from the 2010 auto expo and HM shutting shop, What say?

Pramod
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Old 26th March 2010, 18:13   #38
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I'm surprised no one mentioned this. Whats happening next month? Stage IV Emission Norms. Can the Amby be upgraded to meet them? I don't think so. Sure, anythings possible with $$$, but the Amby only sells 500 cars a month. It's not economically feasible to upgrade the Amby. What will Hindustan Motors sell then? Sure, they can slug it out for another couple of months before the emission norms become applicable to the entire country. What then?

The bottom line is : Of the three primary car makers from the pre-liberalisation days, only Mahindra created opportunities from itself. Today, M&M is KING of the UV market like Maruti is to hatchbacks. Then, Tata came out of nowhere in the passenger car segment and created history (with the Indica, Indigo, Nano, Vista and more recently, the Manza). Premier and HM simply refused to change the way that they worked. The former continued its silly ways of operating the business, divorced a high-potential partner (Peugeot), then another (Fiat) and finally moved out of the business. Their recent attempt with the Rio is hardly that.

HM on the other hand started off on a positive note with the Lancer, which was a well-received product. In fact, it even outsold the Honda City in a neck to neck battle through 1998 - 2000. Unfortunately, the management was used to selling the same car for 50 years (i.e. Ambassador). The Lancer is on sale even today, while Honda sells its THIRD all new generation City in 10 years. Sorry HM, but that attitude doesn't quite make the cut in a fiercely competitive market.

For all those who think that Mitsubishi will make an independent entry in the market, well, dream on. Neither does Mitsubishi (globally) have the $$$ to develop new cars anymore, nor the other resources (technology, brand etc.) required to fight the existing stalwarts (Maruti, Tata, Hyundai) or expected ones (VW, Ford, Nissan).

Last edited by GTO : 26th March 2010 at 18:15.
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Old 26th March 2010, 22:41   #39
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Premier's re-entry AFAIK is under their grandson of the guy who ran PAL. Well thought out strategy with poor implementation. But I think they will sell. Last sales article suggests they had 2000 bookings at hand. Don't know how it has worked out.

HM on the other hand is financially backed by Birla's, sad to see how they have run the company and spoiled a nameplate that bears the country's name and shares the history of independance. I would honestly say HM should learn something from Fiat which has not given up even after losing so much.

Mitsubishi, honestly is not better than HM when it comes to financial capability or entering the market with right models on time.
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Old 26th March 2010, 23:01   #40
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Originally Posted by nickatnite View Post
I doubt it but if the news is true i will celebrate. HM continues to remind me about everything that was wrong with this country while i was growing up.
Well its just that HM refused to accept the change, going by your words even one should remember those days when he sees Bajaj.
But look at the way they have changed themselves and turned around.
Bottomline, they refused to change so they deserve it. Still there would be many people who would surely cry once they get to know Amby will no longer be available (that includes my dad)
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Old 26th March 2010, 23:15   #41
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GTO, Nissan a giant? Wasn't it taken over by Renault?

Still, Mitsubishi must learn a lesson or two from Nissan. Nissan came in only a few years back with niche products like Teana and X-Trail which never sold in large numbers. However, undeterred it has now introduced the volume seller Micra to take the game to next level where there is action. Mitsubishi has Colt and another small car called i-something. Wonder why they can't do what Nissan is doing. And I still wonder what Mitsubishi saw in HM to collaborate with them in the first place.
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Old 27th March 2010, 00:10   #42
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Was a time when the Amby and Fiat were the pillars of transport of good ole socialist India. Mitsubishi Lancer and Galant are very well known brands worldwide, and if you really want to see the torture they are put through, the best place to see these cars in action is sub Saharan Africa. No proper fuel, no fuel stations within reach of a full tank, no spare parts and no service support, these vehicles carry passengers, cargo and animals all in the same car or van. Into the bush, where necessity is the mother of invention. Wonderfully reliable and fuel efficient too. A good brand going to seed in India. Lets hope Mitsubishi's fortunes rise.
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Old 27th March 2010, 01:18   #43
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Originally Posted by xingamazon View Post
Well that looks good on paper, but belive me Mitsubishi buying HM would mean doom for those guys, imagine this a MNC taking over company based mainly out of West Bengal, man the politics in this state will make sure they dont start any operations whatsoever, but the Communist party will make sure the salaries are not stopped for the employees. Thats the worst combination one MNC would like to have as a starter.
I guess you know that Mitsubishi chemicals run a huge facility in Haldia (WB) - and that was started while the communist party was ruling. Stop blaming the commies for everything bad. If its a problem with HM/mitsu, please stick to that.

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^^ I guess Mitsu would be wise enough to buy out only HM's Chennai properties and not the WB Amby plants. Fully own and produce / market Mitsu products in India Mitsu sure could do far better than its current set up. By far, good news for Mitsu lovers.
and why is that being circulated as 'popular wisdom'?

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er... new Amby's!? Somehow every Amby looks as dated as my Great Grandpa's walking stick, never mind the year of production!
Well, backseat of 'grandpa's walking stick' is surely much more comfy that most of the cars earning rave reviews in tbhp.

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I doubt it but if the news is true i will celebrate. HM continues to remind me about everything that was wrong with this country while i was growing up.
I am a bit curious - what wrongdoing can a car possibly be the icon of?

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GTO, Nissan a giant? Wasn't it taken over by Renault?
Nissan IS a giant. It is the third largest Japanese car manufacturer. and Renault hold 44% of Nissan shares while Nissan holds 15% of renault shares. So it ain't a buyout.


Times have changed, and HM could not keep up. So HM is slowly dying a natural death (which was only slightly stopped by the Kolkata HC ruling to ban commercial vehicles more than 15 years old).
Condition of HM is so poor that when suddenly many taxi owners wanted to trade in their old ambys for new ones, HM was not prepared to ramp up their production, and lost a host of order to Tata Motors - indigo CS.
Mitsubishi cars are well loved by enthusiasts, and if they decide to venture alone in India with the right kind of products, they should succeed.

Last edited by blackasta : 27th March 2010 at 01:26.
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Old 27th March 2010, 03:41   #44
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Originally Posted by blackasta View Post
I guess you know that Mitsubishi chemicals run a huge facility in Haldia (WB) - and that was started while the communist party was ruling. Stop blaming the commies for everything bad. If its a problem with HM/mitsu, please stick to that.
I think you will agree that the communist's have literally thrown industrialists/companies out from West Bengal by their strong arm tactics. Hired goons run the show, and that truly is not communism. HM is a part of the same system, feeding of captive markets with zero R&D and total lack of innovation, I will be glad when they draw the shutters. It'll be bad for West Bengal, but I firmly believe that mediocrity should be purged. And I do blamed the commies for that.
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Well, backseat of 'grandpa's walking stick' is surely much more comfy that most of the cars earning rave reviews in tbhp.
You did say "mostly", but just wanted to drive home the point that the Manza has a fantastic rear bench, one that is comparable (and in my opinion better) than the Amby's.
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I am a bit curious - what wrongdoing can a car possibly be the icon of?
I'd leave Nickatnite to answer that, but if he thinks likes me then I do consider the Amby to be symbolic of the license Raj, one our current Prime Minister got rid of. Outdated products, backed by the government's closed door policies.
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Nissan IS a giant. It is the third largest Japanese car manufacturer. and Renault hold 44% of Nissan shares while Nissan holds 15% of renault shares. So it ain't a buyout.
Right. But I hope you can see that the proportion of the shares is almost 3:1 and that Nissan was in deep **** before Renault literally rescued them.

Last edited by Amartya : 27th March 2010 at 03:42.
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Old 27th March 2010, 06:56   #45
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If this is true, then its not good news for current Mitsu owners. Because they would have a terrible time sourcing spares...
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