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Old 7th October 2005, 08:27   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veyron1
agreed, chassis flex is too complicated a calculation to be figured out by guesses or even by the human mind on it's own, but in the real world, you have to go by trial and error basis, and precision science and maths doesn't always work.
You are the one that gave the example of the hydraulic cylinders. So all I did was go one-up and quote the formula for the same. If you read my earlier post, I said quite clearly:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ananthkamath
I am not picking out something from the net, here. I speak from first-hand accounts from the old Formula Indian racers.
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Originally Posted by veyron1
the little knowledge that i have, i have gained through experience and long years of automobile passion...
So have I , veyron, so have I.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by veyron1
look, you are missing the point of my posts by a country mile;one cannot have expertise in all the VAST areas realted to automobiles; just like a scientist can't have the knowledge of a tuner or a race driver, and vice-versa; a scientist believes in theory and achieving results by complex calcns. et.al, whereas the others believe in practical results via real-world knowledge and trial & error methods.

i was only putting forward my opinions based on real-world experiences; i can't state the specifics or scentific data like proffessionals...
In case you didn't notice, so was I. I didnt bring up the issue of flex or hydraulic cylinders. This is my PRACTICAL observation taken from real-world data.

You contribution to this is invaluable. Made me even brush up on my hydraulics theory a bit... We need people like you on the team who are enthusiastic and not afraid to pitch in with their inputs...not like some people who don't share what they know...

So lets put this behind us and get on with the task at hand.

While we wait for Mr.Sujan's reply, we could continue with the feedback on the specifics of why everyone finds the Scorpio scary....with special regard to the braking.....
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Old 7th October 2005, 09:22   #62
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This is getting interesting...

Im going a bit offtopic just for this post.

@busa & dadude: You guys are underage drivers both of you...what are you trying to do here by telling us again and again about how you did this with your scorpio, sail, zen whatever. You guys 'might' be good drivers but its still illegal to drive under 18 years. Then you guys complain of being pounced at...underage driving is against the law. If you dont want us to complain about your underage driving...stop writing about your escapades and instead focus on the topic...and post only if you think you can really provide some information...dont post just for the sake of posting. Number of posts doesnt necessarily mean greater respect. Remember that.

@others: thats it from me...sorry about going offtopic...let the debate continue.

Drifter
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Old 7th October 2005, 09:53   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by ananthkamath

You are the one that gave the example of the hydraulic cylinders.
And you were the one who brought up the specific "numbers" on chassis flex; like i said, we, as tuners/drivers can only say what we feel and see, and can't predict the precisions like the CATIA and ANSYS softwares...

Quote:
Originally posted by ananthkamath

So lets put this behind us and get on with the task at hand.
Agreed.

with regards to the handling, i have already quoted the earlier example on the LWB scorpio.

and as for the braking, the reason for me quoting the master cylinders and others was because there ws a dude (a friend's friend, kinda; ) i knew, who had taken his scorpio 4x4 (non- crde, old model) to one of the raid de' himalayas and a mahindra slush fest (great escape), who had done this, and he told me that the fade problem and the lack of bite had been solved by doing so. of course, i haven't driven his car, so i cannot say with first-hand experience as to how right he was or how improved the car was, but i think it worked pretty well, taking from what he said....

Last edited by veyron1 : 7th October 2005 at 09:57.
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Old 7th October 2005, 11:00   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veyron1
and as for the braking, the reason for me quoting the master cylinders and others was because there ws a dude (a friend's friend, kinda; ) i knew, who had taken his scorpio 4x4 (non- crde, old model) to one of the raid de' himalayas and a mahindra slush fest (great escape), who had done this, and he told me that the fade problem and the lack of bite had been solved by doing so.
Any chance you would know which master cylinder he used....and did he make any changes to the booster also..

Also, whats an LSPV, can someone post a link to an expl. for this...I know it varies pressure to the rear slave cylinders based on load, but how does it work?

I have seen something similar on my Indica but I dont think its an LSPV....it looks like a sort of a plenum to reduce peak velocity to the rear...Someone please shed light on this.

The reason I am asking is maybe this braking thing could be tackled from the PoV of brake bias first...
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Old 7th October 2005, 11:05   #65
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Man the car is SUV, MUV and also a Mahidra Pickup truck in my point of view. I have heared so many bad reviews about Scorpion that i will never buy a Mahindra Car in my life. No matter if they can beat ferrari or merc etc.. i will never even go in their showroom.
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Old 7th October 2005, 11:19   #66
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umm..in the quest for finding solutions to problems, one tends to overlook the basics first. With regards to the braking problem, I would first look at the type of pads used, try something different there first. Also remember that tyres play a huge role in overall braking performance. Maybe the OE tyres fitted on a Scorpio are just not good enough?

And then remember that a Scorpio is a tall, heavy, truck. Do not expect it to have the same braking performance of a sedan.

Man, I really need to take a long drive in the Scorpio and see what the fuss is about...
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Old 7th October 2005, 11:32   #67
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Try it on an Ocean Road, ie the one which have long smooth ups and downs. There you will feel it pitching up and down and god help you when you turn little fast on a "crest". Its like a ship in choppy seas. I used to think that the safari pitches and rolls(Old one), this would dance in such ungainly manner that you can actually get seasick. I was told that pre CRDE scorpios were worse. I wonder what they were like.
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Old 7th October 2005, 11:34   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drifter
This is getting interesting...

Im going a bit offtopic just for this post.

@busa & dadude: You guys are underage drivers both of you...what are you trying to do here by telling us again and again about how you did this with your scorpio, sail, zen whatever. You guys 'might' be good drivers but its still illegal to drive under 18 years. Then you guys complain of being pounced at...underage driving is against the law. If you dont want us to complain about your underage driving...stop writing about your escapades and instead focus on the topic...and post only if you think you can really provide some information...dont post just for the sake of posting. Number of posts doesnt necessarily mean greater respect. Remember that.

@others: thats it from me...sorry about going offtopic...let the debate continue.

Drifter


ohh its all crap..i really dont mind if mods reduce my 100 posts also...i dont think about all that....the reason i posted that was to prove how scorpio is...many people out here said that accent is much faster than a scorpio...
without even driving a scorpio this busa dude is talking too much about the car...and comparing it to the san storm...hahahahha...
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Old 7th October 2005, 11:59   #69
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Scorpio.....a new ad campaign....

- The Gr8 SUV?MUV?TRACTOR?UTE that even a 14-year old can drive
- that even a 14-year old can drive in 140 kmph
- that even a 14-year old can drive in 140 kmph in MUMBAI
- that even a 14-year old can drive in 140 kmph in MUMBAI with 9 souls ( + or - the driver, I am not sure)

If the guys from M&M pay us a visit following AK's letter, what would be their reaction to all these?

"Nine men on a dead man's chest
Yo ho ho and a baby at wheel"....?

Some pun is intended...lemme pour some cold water over my monitor.. :

Last edited by sandeepmdas : 7th October 2005 at 12:02.
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Old 7th October 2005, 12:29   #70
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Quote:
You guys are underage drivers both of you...what are you trying to do here by telling us again and again about how you did this with your scorpio, sail, zen whatever. You guys 'might' be good drivers but its still illegal to drive under 18 years. Then you guys complain of being pounced at...underage driving is against the law. If you dont want us to complain about your underage driving...stop writing about your escapades and instead focus on the topic...
Drifter honestly speaking i never wrote that i have driven the Scoprio noe have i said i did anything with it nor did i race with it! Never even wrote any escapades drifter! Also drifter if you would have read my first ever post at team-bhp i have written that i am against underage driving myself so i dont drive myself!

@ Steeroid - Need a better rolemodel like you!(not kidding)

Quote:
hey dude...why cant u just say sorry and finish off the matter
If you are soo obssesed with posting without even looking at the whole thread i dont know what to say! Do look at post 55!

@ Ananthkamth - Wont 235/50/15s be a bit low profile for our roads! It will kill the ride! Also will be dangerous for the alloys! Current Scorpios come with 235/70/16 dont they! 16inchers should be improving handling a bit then 15inchers!

Fact will remain fact dadude whether you race or overtake Accents or not that Scorpio cant match even the **** of a Petrol Accent and its no where close or no where around to a Petrol Accent as far as performance, handling, stabilty is concerned! But those two cars are for different motive alltogether so its not right to compare them and yes remember scorpio is a crappy vehicle when its come to handling and stabilty! I said it before and i stick to my words! because fact is fact which cannot be changed by arguing! Other aspects i agree its a fast SUV(faster then Safari and Endeavour) and its looks good atleast from the front and maybe value for money! But just because you own a Scorpio you dont have to be possesive about it so much that you forget its faults! Learn to admit whats true! If you want to say anything else please dont post here! PM is the way to go and the only reason why i said that the dadude did underage driving as adya was pointing at me and since i have not indulged in doing what you have i guess he was confused that who is the underage hero out here!

Just Chill, Peace HO everyone! and let the experts continue the discussion and lets just see the fun of it!

Last edited by BUSA : 7th October 2005 at 12:31.
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Old 7th October 2005, 13:01   #71
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hahahha ..u think im doing all this just because i own a scorpio and im possesive about it...arre dude trust me i really dont care about such things...i own a sail..its fe suC*s...own a v-tec ..thats cool...own a scorpio..handling is pretty bad..and im not those kidns who will feel bad about such things..the only thing i was trying to prove is that this car can be raced with an accent..and never underestimate the scorpio guysss..own a bolero...that s*c*S to the COREEEE....
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Old 7th October 2005, 13:10   #72
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Guys, enough of this. This is not a chat room for these petty arguments. There are people who are trying to have a serious dicussion and your personal comments on each other are simply making this thread a pain to read. No more talk from anyone on that issue now.
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Old 7th October 2005, 13:19   #73
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I think a S(shorter)WB and improper (front-rear)weight distribution coupled with non-proportional height(rear is too tall) are main causes of the Scorpio's poor handling and skitish behaviour while braking or on bad roads.
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Old 7th October 2005, 13:23   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rtech
umm..in the quest for finding solutions to problems, one tends to overlook the basics first. With regards to the braking problem, I would first look at the type of pads used, try something different there first. Also remember that tyres play a huge role in overall braking performance. Maybe the OE tyres fitted on a Scorpio are just not good enough?
Yeah I was thinking about that too....It is true that harder pads can improve braking performance but the tradeoff is longer warm-up time.

On the old Formula Indians we used to get harder pads in the 80s & 90s (thats what I have been told & shown). But I have also been told that they are unsuitable for the street unless you drive with the brakes lightly on for the first half a kilometer..No kidding.

I don't know if they're available anymore, though.....We could try with the rally guys...

I did suggest 235/50R15 tyres...we bought them (slightly wider 255/50) for a friend's Kaiser Jeep...We will try them and post the results after the Jeep's on the road...

Quote:
Originally Posted by merve_extreme
I think a S(shorter)WB and improper (front-rear)weight distribution....are main causes of the Scorpio's poor handling and skitish behaviour while braking or on bad roads.
Maybe but is there anything we can do about it?

Last edited by ananthkamath : 7th October 2005 at 13:26.
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Old 7th October 2005, 13:46   #75
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..harder pads will give zero stopping power when wet during heavy rains, wont they?
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