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Old 5th October 2005, 19:26   #1
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Question What the Heck is Scorpio for?

This is really sad to know!

Mahindra Scorpio Mahindras only SUV in India is nothing great at its price! Its price is going up and features going down! The top of the line SLX comes for 9.5Lacs OTR! But what does it have? No alloys, no ABS, NO leather, NO Airbags, NOT even 4 x 4 system!

Thats not all its has pathetic handling, poor stabilty with a ground clearance of 180(very less for a so called SUV) and the sterring is pathetic! Car doesnot feel safe at all at three digit speeds!



Also as GTO has mentioned this car is not crash tested! YOu pay almost 10Lacs for what? No safety nothing! Only to carry 8 people! You better take a Tavera which doesnot suffer from these problems!

Whats the use of it being called an SUV when there is no 4 by 4 system! I dont get the point with the new CRDe they incresed the proce by 35k but removed the 4 by 4 system!



Its just that it looks good so its selling! But its high time M n M up their act!

What do you guys think? Safari has many niggles, Endeavour overpriced, CR-V not a off roader, Tucson cannot be in 4 by 4 mode above 35kmph, In this case Fortuner i await thy to hit our shores fast!
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Old 5th October 2005, 19:31   #2
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BUSA,

I had posted a similar comment in the thread that outlined my brothers experience with looking for an 8 lac car. The Scorpio 4 years back was nice. It was for about 6.5 Lacs and the competition (Qualis and Sumo) wernt that appealing. Butttttttttttttttt its an absolute waste at the current asking price.

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Safari has many niggles, Endeavour overpriced, CR-V not a off roader, Tucson cannot be in 4 by 4 mode above 35kmph,
Thats why they say - It aint a perfect world out there

GTO
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Old 5th October 2005, 19:34   #3
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Yes. a decent 4x4 under 7-8 lakhs is still a dream in India. It need not be a people carrier, a good 4x4 with a seating capacity of 5 also will do. I am betting on Suzuki's SX4. Hopefully it will be good.
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Old 5th October 2005, 20:23   #4
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Originally Posted by BUSA
Its just that it looks good so its selling! But its high time M n M up their act!
no offence to anyone, but the styling of the Scorpio has got to be the most garish ever. no sense of proportion or class. one only has to look at the rear light assembly to see how far out of whack the designers are. the cladding is from the last century (actually). the grill is reminiscent of some korean (IIRC) SUV attempt of the early 90s, (again IIRC).

the worst flaw however has got to be the fact that for a vehicle of its size, it offers very little space and comfort. the front seat travel (rather, lack of it) is shocking.

add to that the fact that it is not crash tested as mentioned. also reports of malfunctioning steering systems, brakes, suspension etc. make it a very poor proposition, safety wise.

honestly, the mahindras have been incredibly lucky with the scorpio. i think the timing of the launch, the initial pricing and the extremely limited choice of that class of vehicles at the time were key factors that contributed to the scorpio's success.

however, this time round with the CRDE version at its price levels, they are going to experience something different.

the Safari has got to be the best at the moment, even more so with its DICOR release, in that price range of course.

Last edited by hell_rider : 5th October 2005 at 20:30.
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Old 5th October 2005, 20:59   #5
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Originally Posted by hell_rider
no offence to anyone, but the styling of the Scorpio has got to be the most garish ever. no sense of proportion or class.
Yeah - too much rear overhang considering the fact that there's practically none in font.

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Originally Posted by hell_rider
the grill is reminiscent of some korean (IIRC) SUV attempt of the early 90s, (again IIRC).
Bad copy of the Terracan, actually.

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Originally Posted by hell_rider
the worst flaw however has got to be the fact that for a vehicle of its size, it offers very little space and comfort. the front seat travel (rather, lack of it) is shocking.
What did you expect from an Armada floorpan? It cant possibly have more room than the Armada, which is an MM540, which is GTOs CJ series WW2 chassis stretched and made to accomodate a front end made with Korean dies and strengthened (?) to take a Peuguot agricultural engine.


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Originally Posted by hell_rider
honestly, the mahindras have been incredibly lucky with the scorpio. i think the timing of the launch, the initial pricing and the extremely limited choice of that class of vehicles at the time were key factors that contributed to the scorpio's success.
Actually it was the "garish looks" that you mentioned that attracted most of the first time buyers - here was a chance to buy something for about 6 lakhs that looked like it was worth a lot more than that. Hence all the local bullys bought one to look tough in.

People I know that own the Scorpio are willing to overlook the handling, the brakes and everything as long as they can make their presence felt. Its a bit like the Bullet in that sense...presence counts over everything else.

BTW I see a few here in Dubai, usually with Sharjah numberplates and driven by Indians. It comes with a REV116 legend behind - not sure if this is supposed to denote the Renault engine inside. Saw one of them screeching away to glory when the traffic on the expressway came up to a block - he shifted about 4 lanes in the process and if there wasnt a divider he could probably have driven back where he started from - the vehicle had turned around the face us, quite like those autorickshaws that surprise you occassionally...

Last edited by Steeroid : 5th October 2005 at 21:02.
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Old 5th October 2005, 21:18   #6
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Scorpio mainly sells here because of its Petrol car like performance.. Its the fun factor which counts... those small marutis are no pain to overtake with the CRDe engine, and has enough grunt to outperform some mid size sedans like Hyundai Accent (in straight line of course).. besides that, its not too bad on Fuel efficiency too..
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Old 5th October 2005, 21:37   #7
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Originally Posted by dceite
those small marutis are no pain to overtake with the CRDe engine, and has enough grunt to outperform some mid size sedans like Hyundai Accent (in straight line of course).. besides that, its not too bad on Fuel efficiency too..
Small cars yes but that too probably limited only to the 800, alto or indica d...but with a 0-100kmph time of 16.53 seconds for the CRDe it still cant match the accent petrol even in a straight line...

But do agree on FE part...

Drifter

Last edited by drifter : 5th October 2005 at 21:38.
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Old 5th October 2005, 21:42   #8
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Originally Posted by dceite
, and has enough grunt to outperform some mid size sedans like Hyundai Accent (in straight line of course)..
Nah. Straight line or otherwise, Scorpio wont get near the Accent. Its funny how perceptions are - the Scorpio is about 5 seconds off the Accent's 0-100 times and you fancy its chances, the Accent is about 1-1 1/2 seconds off the other sedans and you think its bloody slow...thats what an 'image' does - it makes reality a bit fuzzy and lets the imagination go wild.

Even if one were to keep aside 0-100 times, the Scorpio wont get to see the Accents tail lights on a clear night once on the highway.

Last edited by Steeroid : 5th October 2005 at 21:45.
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Old 5th October 2005, 21:47   #9
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Quote:
and has enough grunt to outperform some mid size sedans like Hyundai Accent
erm...you were kidding, weren't you dceite..?? the crde wouldn't outperform the accent even if it was on steroids...the accent has far better performance (in both it's petrol and crdi guises) than the scorpio...

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besides that, its not too bad on Fuel efficiency too..
that, is the MAIN reason which has people flocking towards it to buy it in the thousands, most of whom buy the car for use as a cab, or for lease...

but, as a muv, the scorpio is okay; not as a suv, simply because it isn't one- (not in my wildest of imaginations would i be seen in a scorpio on a mountain pass), although it isn't what you would call "value for money" now, as the fully loaded version is kinda overpriced...

but then, i believe mahindra has some sort of a game plan, as the scorpio "phase" is phasing out slowly, what with the rise of the phoenix (the DICOR) and the eagle (innova); mahindra is planning a(nother) MUV, with a souped up 2.8 litre version of it's current 2.6 litre crde powerplant...
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Old 5th October 2005, 21:59   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid
Nah. Straight line or otherwise, Scorpio wont get near the Accent. Its funny how perceptions are - the Scorpio is about 5 seconds off the Accent's 0-100 times and you fancy its chances, the Accent is about 1-1 1/2 seconds off the other sedans and you think its bloody slow...thats what an 'image' does - it makes reality a bit fuzzy and lets the imagination go wild.

Even if one were to keep aside 0-100 times, the Scorpio wont get to see the Accents tail lights on a clear night once on the highway.
Couldnt have said it better myself.

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Old 5th October 2005, 22:01   #11
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I think you guys are slamming the Scorpio way too much. Yeah, I agree its overpriced at 8+ lac, yeah its a bit cramped at the rear, and yeah, the handling is scary at high speeds.

But, pray tell me, which SUV sold in India today has features way better than the Scorpio if you factor in their price? Even the Endeavour, at nearly twice the price, has rigid axle suspension at the back. Its skittish over broken roads and has a lethargic engine for its size. And, its based on a garden-variety pick up truck.

The Tucson, Forester & Terracan are all good vehicles, but at that price? Come on...

How many of us who buy these vehicles actually go off-road, even once in a while, say a week? We don't, and even if we do, the average guy couldnt even dare venture into a place which he is less capable of handling than the vehicle itself.

As for crash-testing, if the law doesn't mandate it, why would a manufacturer want to do it? What about the other vehicles on this list? Even if they did achieve a 5-star rating from NHTSA, most of the equipment which got it this rating would have been cut out from the Indian model. Why? Because Indians' lives are cheaper due to their number being higher!

To tell the truth, an awesome amount of effort has gone into the project. Steeroid its unfair to say that the Scorpio somehow dates back to WW2. Thats like saying the present Porsche 911 Turbo dates back to the original VW Beetle.
What if the dies are Korean? Do you have conclusive proof that the Koreans make bad dies? Its a known fact in the manufacturing industry that the Koreans make some of the best dies out there at really competitive rates.
About the engine. Its not even a Peugeot design. Its Mahindra's own DI tractor engine. Yes, its roots are agricultural, but is it fair to call it agricultural after the thousands of hours of engineering work that has gone into it at Mahindra as well as AVL?

In my opinion, if Mahindra is overcharging, then so are all the other manufacturers, rather blatantly, for their models, irrespective of spec level.

Styling is of course a subjective topic and there are more people who do like the looks of the Scorpio than those who don't. Its sales figures justify that.

In the end I would like to say that if the suspension is sorted out, and the ergonomics is taken care of, the Scorpio is even today the best value in the market. If Mahindra is sleeping on this, then it is not a job too hard for even the aftermarket to take care of.

Forgive me if I sound like I am preaching, but we Indians have a self-deprecating attitude. Nothing we ever make is good enough for anyone. Nothing we ever achieve is too significant. When will we ever rid ourselves of this colonial baggage that the British left us with?
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Old 5th October 2005, 22:16   #12
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Firstly the Scorpio CRDe is no where close to the Petrol Accent leave alone the diesel sibling which is faster then the Petrol! Seconfly the CRDe engine is not tried and tested its just an experiment!

Whats up with a Sportz Version you colour your car yellow and is that call sports or is it called Sh*t

Good wheels caps have been replaced by Poor Steel wheels!

Scorpio Nothing else will do if you want a Crappy SUV!

Quote:
I think you guys are slamming the Scorpio way too much. Yeah, I agree its overpriced at 8+ lac, yeah its a bit cramped at the rear, and yeah, the handling is scary at high speeds.
Overpriced or way overpriced! What features does it have only dual paint and irritaing voice assist! Who needs voice assist! When you buy an SUV you r aim is to carry people and thats one reason why people dont want a cramped rear!

Plus i dont understand who disgusting the Scorp looks at the rear! YUK! No better way to save costs then add such small tiny lamps! Even 800 and premier padmani have better lights then the Scorp!

Quote:
But, pray tell me, which SUV sold in India today has features way better than the Scorpio if you factor in their price? Even the Endeavour, at nearly twice the price, has rigid axle suspension at the back. Its skittish over broken roads and has a lethargic engine for its size. And, its based on a garden-variety pick up truck.
If i am not mistaken there was an Armada pickup which the Scorpio is based upon! I think Safari has better features then the Scorpio. better rie and handling more comfort! better engine!

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The Tucson, Forester & Terracan are all good vehicles, but at that price? Come on...
Is there any justification of a price hike of 2.5L in the past years of the Scorpio! The sportz version is cheaper by 20K from the top of the so called line SLX?

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How many of us who buy these vehicles actually go off-road, even once in a while, say a week? We don't, and even if we do, the average guy couldnt even dare venture into a place which he is less capable of handling than the vehicle itself.
You are wrong! The definition of an SUV asks for a 4 by 4 which differentiates it from an MUV! People buy SUVS for off roading and expect 4 by 4 atleast i do!

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As for crash-testing, if the law doesn't mandate it, why would a manufacturer want to do it? What about the other vehicles on this list? Even if they did achieve a 5-star rating from NHTSA, most of the equipment which got it this rating would have been cut out from the Indian model. Why? Because Indians' lives are cheaper due to their number being higher!
Wrong the Swift indian version has been crash tested! Atleast the body of the scorpio should have! EVery one does it! Even Indigo and all tata vehicles which are indian are crash tested! I dont know how M n M managed to sell Scorpio abroad? Maybe their own employees driving it!

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To tell the truth, an awesome amount of effort has gone into the project. Steeroid its unfair to say that the Scorpio somehow dates back to WW2.
Anyother case of playing like Maruti does!

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Styling is of course a subjective topic and there are more people who do like the looks of the Scorpio than those who don't. Its sales figures justify that.
Not all buyers know about the handling and not all are intelligent like you and me to be a part of a wonderful forum team-bhp
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In the end I would like to say that if the suspension is sorted out, and the ergonomics is taken care of, the Scorpio is even today the best value in the market. If Mahindra is sleeping on this, then it is not a job too hard for even the aftermarket to take care of.
What about the warranty! If it aint a difficult job why arent mahindra doing it! Because its selling and they arent honda or toyota to do on good will!

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Nothing we ever make is good enough for anyone. Nothing we ever achieve is too significant.
Have you seen the car and its faults there are more Cons to it then Pros!
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Old 5th October 2005, 22:18   #13
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Originally Posted by Steeroid
It comes with a REV116 legend behind - not sure if this is supposed to denote the Renault engine inside.
Yes it is supposed to denote the presence of Renault engine inside.
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Old 5th October 2005, 22:47   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSA
When you buy an SUV you r aim is to carry people and thats one reason why people dont want a cramped rear!
I never said they did. I did admit its a fault.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSA
Plus i dont understand who disgusting the Scorp looks at the rear! YUK! No better way to save costs then add such small tiny lamps! Even 800 and premier padmani have better lights then the Scorp!
All I said was, styling is subjective and everyone, including you, is entitled to their opinion. Even the expensive TVRs have tiny headlamps and tail-lamps, lets hear anyone criticising them!

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Originally Posted by BUSA
If i am not mistaken there was an Armada pickup which the Scorpio is based upon! I think Safari has better features then the Scorpio. better rie and handling more comfort! better engine!
Yes there was. But what I said was, these are as different as chalk and cheese. When you put enough development time and money into something, what you see is NOT what you get. Ask any half-decent engineer and he will tell you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSA
You are wrong! The definition of an SUV asks for a 4 by 4 which differentiates it from an MUV! People buy SUVS for off roading and expect 4 by 4 atleast i do!
But you yourself said that SUVs are bought to carry people. By your definition, SUV = MUV. Show me SUV-owning people who genuinely do off-roading atleast once a week (heck, even a month). Which brings us to a known fact: People buy SUVs for their poser value and for their supposed "durability" and "good ride" on our moon-crater like roads.

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Originally Posted by BUSA
Wrong the Swift indian version has been crash tested! Atleast the body of the scorpio should have!
Let me know the source of your information. And the second sentence clearly shows that you don't quite know jack sh*t about crash testing. Crash testing is a procedure that tests the STRUCTURAL integrity of a holistic vehicle under controlled conditions. And in the Scorpio, STRUCTURAL means "including the chassis".

Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSA
What about the warranty! If it aint a difficult job why arent mahindra doing it! Because its selling and they arent honda or toyota to do on good will!
Yeah right, Toyota have SO much goodwill towards the hundreds of thousands of Qualis owners, that they completely stopped all production of this vehicle in order to make way for the Innova! That means, the Qualis owner (typically a taxi operator) can kiss his savings good-bye when it comes time for the next major overhaul.

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Originally Posted by BUSA
Have you seen the car and its faults there are more Cons to it then Pros!
Umm, except for knowing a handful of development engineers on the Scorpio team, and except for owning a couple of very early examples within the family, no, I haven't seen the car.
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Old 6th October 2005, 00:41   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ananthkamath
In the end I would like to say that if the suspension is sorted out, and the ergonomics is taken care of, the Scorpio is even today the best value in the market. If Mahindra is sleeping on this, then it is not a job too hard for even the aftermarket to take care of.
Okay, so you want people to buy the Scorpio because they can take it out of the showroom, increase legspace by changing the seating layout, upgrade the brakes and change suspension components...why dont you and I start building our own cars in our backyard and let Mahindra supply the engines? You WERE kidding, right?


The reason I pointed to the Korean dies and the Peuguot tractor engines
(PS: I think AVL worked on those, not Mahindra's tractor engines which are derived from the International tractor engines - I could be wrong but I'd like to have this clarified once and for all with some sort of documentation) was because there was this huge PR campaign by Mahindra to push the Scorpio as a vehicle designed from scratch when it was more of an evolution of various bits that already existed. Let me clarify that I am not disdainful of either the Koreans or the French, both of whom make great cars.

At the end of the day, the vehicle DOES NOT offer space or utility that is proportionate to its footprint on the door.

Finally, dont question my commitment to anything Indian - I put 11 lakhs down on a Safari when there were plenty of other options at that price because I wear my patriotism on my sleeve, among other things.
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