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Old 17th April 2010, 11:08   #31
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Originally Posted by indivic View Post
I interpret this as a positive news, Mahindra get a "platform", one that has potential
News paper reports tells, Mahindra is trying to tie up with Mitsubishi or Proton-Citreon, It could be mere speculation. But considering the past Mahindra cannot make a joint venture successful. [ Ford, Renault ]. The same could happen to Mahindra-Navistar also, let us wait and see....
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Old 17th April 2010, 12:10   #32
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I read Pawan Goenka's statements in the Newspaper this morning about the discontinuance of the venture & it appears that both the parties have parted ways on amicable note... though this is unfortunate on Mahindra's part to have another JV with international manufacturer biting dust.

The best part is Mahindra acquiring rights to manufacturer Logan for India (under its own name from Dec-10) & for exports for international markets on Renault. This is good news for Logan owners. The Logan was a spacious & comfortable car which topped the JD Power's reliability survey in the first year of its introduction. Hopefully the sales will also pick up. If Mahindra can put efforts in R&D for the Logan, it will be a good (future) buy in the Rs.6-8 lacs segment.

I liked the Mahindra's signature grill photoshopped by one of the members, which makes the staid looking car a bit attractive.
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Old 17th April 2010, 12:12   #33
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IMO, the break off from the JV could affect Renault more than M&M. Renault will lose the trust of their existing customer base and it will prove a challenge for them when they start over again. Now they will have to start using Nissan's tiny dealership network for selling their new products. Also having started out selling a car like Logan it will be tough for Renault to get in to the premium market segment.

M&M stands to gain most out of this break-up. Now they can modify the Logan in which ever way they want and make the proposition more attractive to the taxi segment. Thay can still use the Renault name (atleast for 12more months) which definitely has more value than M&M.
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Old 17th April 2010, 12:19   #34
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IMO, I disagree with all the comments made about M&M taking over the JV control from Renault. I would suggest everyone to take a look at what M&M did with Kinetic once they bought over the business.

Kinetic was not able to sell even 4000 scooters in a month inspite of having a good product SYM flyte. M&M bought over the business and 2 new scooters based on the flyte and today are selling 10,000 plus scooters in the same market. I personally feel that similar things will happen for the Logan. M&M will work on changing the design of the car and try to make it look more modern.

It will probably not change the engines for the moment and continue with 1.4P and 1.5D. But sooner rather than later, they will come up with a 1.5 CRDe version of the 2.2CRDe in the Scorpio. That engine will also be helpful in the mini SUV that M&M is reportedly developing on the lines of Premier Rio.

Some will argue that M&M never had a JV with kinetic while in this case, they were involved from the start. But I would ask people to remember that it was M&M who were always pushing Renault for making changing in the car and it was Renault who were reluctant about it. So in the end it is not M&M who would inherit the baggage of the failure. I would suggest that we wait and watch. M&M will probably walk away as winner and Renault will come out of it worst.

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Old 17th April 2010, 16:59   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by safari_lover View Post
BTW, what happens post Dec 2010 - will the car be renamed as Mahindra Logan or Mahindra somethingelse?
They won't be able to use the name Logan as it belongs to Renault

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Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
Logan was what Peugeot 206 to us ! Theythought they can take us for a ride with outdated model.

BUT, I guess the engine was their strong point ( and pricing ?) . I have seen people 'utilizing' the diesel engine well which had made me a fan of the Logan to some extend.

Can a facelift and rebading help it sell better? I hope they do promote it well ( a thing that Tata does well ).
The Logan is not outdated. It is still in production in Europe.
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Old 17th April 2010, 19:26   #36
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Good news for the customer.
This lets Mahindra do their thing - come out with model refreshes, play with pricing strategies - the kind they are doing with the Scoprio.
I am not so sure they get the 'platform'. From the day they started manufacturing the Logan at Nashik, they got an insight on the platform and it underpinnings. And I sure a lot of it will find its way inside the 4-lakh SUV they are planning. Similar to how they learned the ropes with Ford for the Scorpio. They didn't need to up their stake to 100% for that one.
For me, it basically allows Mahindra to get on with the game in the mid-size car market. Interesting times ahead.
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Old 17th April 2010, 19:27   #37
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so how will mahindra be able to arrange spares ?important spares like engine , transmission etc will still be supplied by renault . I do not personally think that mahindra will be able to actually sell and service . Given the rapidly changing preferences of the consumers .. i do not think the boxy sedan has a future .

The logan 1.5 diesel is built to work and it will keep working .One of the best diesel engines i have seen apart from the fiesta 1.4 tdci
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Old 17th April 2010, 19:44   #38
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Renault has find a better partner than Mahindra in India. It is now time for Mahindra to prove that it can make things successful without Renault's help. Mahindra has to redesign Logan to suit Indian customers viz.. controls, switches, wipers, etc..
Good luck Mahindra..
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Old 17th April 2010, 22:02   #39
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Originally Posted by Avenger View Post
Some will argue that M&M never had a JV with kinetic while in this case, they were involved from the start. But I would ask people to remember that it was M&M who were always pushing Renault for making changing in the car and it was Renault who were reluctant about it. So in the end it is not M&M who would inherit the baggage of the failure. I would suggest that we wait and watch. M&M will probably walk away as winner and Renault will come out of it worst.
In any relationship, trust is the most important factor. The problem is, Multinationals dont consider Mahindras at the same lines of Tatas or Reliance. So they expect Mahindra to play a smaller role ( such as Kirloskar - Toyota) in the management of the joint venture. But the egos of the top brasses of Mahindra, cannot accept and understand this fact. Until Mahindras attain the wordwide reputation Tatas and Reliance command now, things will remain the same. But that takes time. Probably the first step is to select a Foreigner as CEO and try to change the culture at the top. Otherwise Mahindra-Navistar is the next one to bite the dust. But that takes some more time.
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Old 17th April 2010, 22:16   #40
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M&M get logan! what heppens to Renault now? will the tie up with Nissan. Please forgive my ignorance
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Old 17th April 2010, 22:48   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teamveevee View Post
In any relationship, trust is the most important factor. The problem is, Multinationals dont consider Mahindras at the same lines of Tatas or Reliance. So they expect Mahindra to play a smaller role ( such as Kirloskar - Toyota) in the management of the joint venture. But the egos of the top brasses of Mahindra, cannot accept and understand this fact. Until Mahindras attain the wordwide reputation Tatas and Reliance command now, things will remain the same. But that takes time. Probably the first step is to select a Foreigner as CEO and try to change the culture at the top. Otherwise Mahindra-Navistar is the next one to bite the dust. But that takes some more time.
This being (having been) a 51-49 JV, Mahindra definitely has the upper hand. I don't think ego had any part here. Both parties knew their place going in and IMO renault does not want to make further investments in LOGAN now that they are going ahead with NISSAN. So, it was a good financial decision but may be a bad business move. But if Mahindra takes care of the LOGAN customers well then Renault will not have a problem.

IMO india is not a good market for renault looks, though their cars are well engineered and built.
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Old 17th April 2010, 23:07   #42
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Originally Posted by ashutoshb View Post
What it means:

- Mahindra has full control over the Logan. Unlike earlier, it now can make whatever changes to the car, it may like.
Check this URL:
M&M to acquire Renault?s stake in its joint venture | Stock Watch

Mahindras will have limited re-engineering rights, as Renault have only given them the license to produce the car, not to change its specs. So I doubt if we shall see any significant changes other than models differentiated on their feature sets. You could have a base version that sells w/o power steering/windows/AC, and a top end variant that sells with all the bells and whistles. My guess is most of the mechanics and engine options will remain the same. After all if M&M are going to export it under the Renault badge, they wouldn't want to clutter up the portfolio with too many variants.

Also Pavan Goenka said this car fills a strategic gap in the repertoire of M&M, that is of sedans, while the place for a good hatchback remains vacant, for now. This is of immense importance to M&M who are looking to increase their dominance in the passenger car market. After the launch of the Scorpio, and recently the Xylo, they have managed to offer a luxury SUV and also a VFM SUV respectively. And they have gained a considerable foothold in the SUV market as well.

Using the Logan to create a brand awareness in the sedan market may actually be a smart move, as then M&M don't have to spend on developing a car from scratch.
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Old 17th April 2010, 23:41   #43
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So that means no Sandero to come.

Sandero sounded like a good option in the new upper small car segment along with Polo, Punto and i20.
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Old 18th April 2010, 02:53   #44
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If I sound a little biased against Mahindra, pardon me, but that's because I am.
I loved the Scorpio when it was launched, then I saw it slowly being transformed to a bling mobile with zero engineering upgrades. It's shameful that the car feels so precarious on the Highway at close to ton up speeds. Before someone flames me, let me say that I have driven the Scorpio (mHawk) from Bangalore to Calcutta, and that it's a long enough drive to get to know a car. I also drove from Lucknow to Calcutta in a 3.0 Safari Dicor, and believe you me, despite the lousy plastics, it felt a lot more confidence inspiring.

Why am I bringing this up in a Logan thread? Well, simply because I think Mahindra's engineering is suspect. I consider the Bolero to be the last decent vehicle they made, it's tough as nails, and just works and they don't claim that it's a luxury vehicle. A lot like most of their erstwhile jeeps. The Xylo is an abomination, anyone who's driven it and is not blinded by the feature list, should be shocked at how terrible a car it is. I think they can be the best UV manufacturers, and be the worlds largest tractor company, but that's just about it. They need to get some real engineering done , hire some half way decent designers, atleast hire the guys who designed the original Scorp back.

I also think that the claim that Renault screwed up the Logan on it's own is a fallacy. Look at Mahindra's history with JV's. Ford came, they left, Renault came, now they are leaving, both prematurely. Both of these companies are, however, continuing in India. Once it might be coincidence, but twice? Don't you think that Mahindra might be to blame, even if to a certain extent?
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Old 18th April 2010, 04:14   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
Check this URL:
M&M to acquire Renault?s stake in its joint venture | Stock Watch

Mahindras will have limited re-engineering rights, as Renault have only given them the license to produce the car, not to change its specs. So I doubt if we shall see any significant changes other than models differentiated on their feature sets. You could have a base version that sells w/o power steering/windows/AC, and a top end variant that sells with all the bells and whistles. My guess is most of the mechanics and engine options will remain the same. After all if M&M are going to export it under the Renault badge, they wouldn't want to clutter up the portfolio with too many variants.

Also Pavan Goenka said this car fills a strategic gap in the repertoire of M&M, that is of sedans, while the place for a good hatchback remains vacant, for now. This is of immense importance to M&M who are looking to increase their dominance in the passenger car market. After the launch of the Scorpio, and recently the Xylo, they have managed to offer a luxury SUV and also a VFM SUV respectively. And they have gained a considerable foothold in the SUV market as well.

Using the Logan to create a brand awareness in the sedan market may actually be a smart move, as then M&M don't have to spend on developing a car from scratch.
'Refresh' can mean a lot of things.. and it will certainly not be adding just a set of new wheel caps. Since we all do not know the finer details of the deal, let us assume, Mahindra which couldn't make changes it wanted earlier, can do now freely. What all changes it would do, only time would tell.
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