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Old 21st April 2010, 15:25   #16
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Originally Posted by naveenvenkatesh View Post
You can add the C class Corporate Edition also to the list. Mercedes is feeling the heat already! 298 3 series cars, compared to 90 C-Class!
Merc is simply following the suit in order to counter BMW's CE effect, and therefore, not eligible to be termed as game changers, they are mere followers..

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Originally Posted by himanshugoswami View Post
This is OT, but this thread made me think of the other side of the coin- the biggest scr.ew up in the 20L range- the Honda CRV!!
Well, CRV too changed the game, but in a manner different from what you and me as customers would benefit from
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Old 21st April 2010, 15:56   #17
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+1 Aloksriva. Merc just followers.

Biggest mess-ups - CR-V, Santa Fe (Hyundai says it will import it as CBU), Terraccan, Teana, X-Trail
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Old 21st April 2010, 16:05   #18
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Originally Posted by AlokSriva View Post
As always GTO, your write-ups are a treat.
Thanks

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However, I have my reservations against Fortuner. Think of it, in its segment, Fortuner has nothing additional to offer vis a vis the competition (Captiva - ACC, all 4-discs, AT at the same price point; Endy - 4 airbags and AT again, not to mention other bells and whistles).
The Fortuner may not be revolutionary in tech or features, but its the only 20 lakh SUV to hit the "sweet spot". Unlike its competitors, there isn't a single deal breaker with the car. The Endeavour has horrible ride quality, the Captiva its turbolag and (previous) CBU pricing (which was corrected after the Fortuner's launch) and average road behaviour, the Pajero is too old, dated and anaemic (in light of the powerful diesels), the Vitara only a petrol and the CRV stratospherically priced.

Very honestly, the only SUV that can take the fight to the Fortuner is the extremely competitive X-Trail (WRT urban targetting). We've tested it and come away mighty impressed. My cousin drives one and he is supremely satisfied. Nissan is currently an inexistent brand; that with the CBU pricing is a deal breaker.

And further on the point of features, Toyota (and Honda) have never offered a long list of features. They instead offer a car that is all-rounded, built with the topmost quality and is better engineered than direct competition. I believe in their products and would rather have my money go into the substance (i.e. the engineering) rather than bells & whistles. I'm just a huge fan of Japanese cars (from experience).

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Yes, Fortuner sure has been a game changer, only so far as setting the sales charts on fire is concerned. If you ask me, IMHO, not a VFM proposition.
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Originally Posted by StarrySky View Post
Fortuner has been a runaway success, but I am not sure if it fits GTO's own definition of a game-changer.
It did change the game at the end, didn't it? Everyone reworked their prices within + / - 2 weeks of the Fortuner's launch. Toyota launched a product that the market wanted, at a price they were willing to pay.

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Originally Posted by imp! View Post
Throw in the fact that the Superb and Passat now come with 6 speed manuals, and I feel we are going to see several more Superb/Passat purchases per month.
While these may increase the fleet sales, remember, the luxury car buyer much prefers ATs over Manual trannies. This has been amply demonstrated by the sales of all German cars (including the Laura!).

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Originally Posted by Vinu View Post
Good stuff GTO. I think the real game changer here is the Beemer. The long term after effects on the luxury car market will be wide ranging if they persist with this strategy of effectively tapping the lower end of the luxury car market.
Bingo! Such pricing will affect the 50 lakh luxury market too. I'm just glad to see the 3 series & C Class back to where they really belong (that is the 23 lakh segment, not 33).

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Originally Posted by Gill22g View Post
These cars also denote the trend people buying more and more high end cars in INDIA.
The Indian car market has, indeed, defied global trends in the last 2 years. The luxury segment is poised to grow even quicker.

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Originally Posted by naveenvenkatesh View Post
You can add the C class Corporate Edition also to the list. Mercedes is feeling the heat already! 298 3 series cars, compared to 90 C-Class!
As Alok posted, the executive edition C Class was a reaction to the 3 series. It isn't a game changer...merely a respondent.

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Originally Posted by himanshugoswami View Post
This is OT, but this thread made me think of the other side of the coin- the biggest scr.ew up in the 20L range- the Honda CRV!!
Add the Accord V6 & Camry to that list too. They are now more expensive than the Corporate ed 3 series!

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Originally Posted by mkh View Post
The fact that Skoda Superb has topped the sales charts even with a bad dealer and support feedback from many owners, speaks volumes of the product offering.
I lose count of the number of times I've thought to myself "If this is what the Superb manages with such shoddy backing, where would the car be if Skoda offered class-topping customer satisfaction, after-sales experience and reliability?". Oh, I know.....would have probably bought the 3.6 AWD by now! Now that's a car you want to hustle.

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Originally Posted by channelv View Post
But new age Toyota is not as good as the die hard, sturdy, reliable vehicles they used to make.
In what way? A BHPian (look up the Fortuner TD thread) has covered over a lakh kms in his UAE Fortuner and hasn't even replaced a damn screw! Recent recalls & their handling aside, I can assure you that the Altis, Camry, Innova and Fortuner have the capability to outlast their owners. On a recent trip to Kerala, my rented steed was a 1.5 lakh kms Innova. Excepting for the odometer, you wouldn't have a clue. Seriously.
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Old 21st April 2010, 16:07   #19
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Originally Posted by designersf View Post
Biggest mess-ups - CR-V, Santa Fe (Hyundai says it will import it as CBU), Terraccan, Teana, X-Trail
It sure requires extraordinary foresight to label a yet-to-be launched car as a mess-up!
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Old 21st April 2010, 16:08   #20
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A great insight, every segment has a car which rules in it and now the 20 lakh segment has its rulers.
I agree with superb,bmw 3 and fortuner being the top choices among customers.
And I wanted to defend fortuner because I think Fortuner is value for money when compared with pajero 2.8 which also costs the same, and has a design which dates back to 90's.
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Old 21st April 2010, 16:30   #21
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Originally Posted by diffsoft View Post
It sure requires extraordinary foresight to label a yet-to-be launched car as a mess-up!

But he is so very right, if people cant learn lessons from their competitors and cant launch a similar class product is a similar price band, the question is why launch it ?
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Old 21st April 2010, 16:33   #22
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the sheer sales that the Fortuner is doing i don't think either the Super or the Corped Beemer can catch up.
The Constant close to 900 cars a month is putting cars like civic to shame.

Last edited by vinaydas : 21st April 2010 at 16:40.
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Old 21st April 2010, 16:41   #23
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Another great write up from GTO. Loved reading this one.
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Old 21st April 2010, 16:45   #24
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I guess Fortuner has a USP on which it is selling like hot cakes. Its KILLER LOOKS. We have to agree that it looks very smart on road. It has rich looks. On that point only mainly it is selling. Also they have a Toyota badge to support it with there proven brand name & service support.

Superb is also very good car in terms of looks. My current dream car
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Old 21st April 2010, 17:16   #25
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Very nice write up, as always, GTO. Kudos to you.

I think the BMW is the real game changer. It has made a true luxury brand within reach of many more middle class pockets. Between the Superb and the Beamer, it would be the Beamer for me any day, even though the Superb has a much better equipment level.
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Old 21st April 2010, 17:23   #26
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Nice thread GTO. Your observations are spot on and most reason's you mentioned for each were the reasons for me buying two of them: Fortuner and Superb.

I'm the kind of person that wants more bang for his buck, hence these two purchases have me satisfied. The Fortuner does leave a little more to be desired but when I compare it to the Endeavour, I still feel I got a good enough deal. The Superb really does not leave anything to be desired for the price, especially when you compare it to the Accord.
I look upto brands that change the name of the game, regardless of the industry they are in. While purchasing the Superb, I was skeptical of the Skoda brand for obvious reasons. But I still looked up to it for what a smashing product they gave us, hence I put my trust in them, they wouldn't do so much if they weren't committed enough. Besides a brand always takes utmost car of it's flagship car's owners thus we have seen most complaints of the Superb have been well resolved by the company.
I see the 20-30 lakh segment bustling with activity and rise in sales. The 3/C/A4 stripped down versions will really help grow this segment.
Although, I hope some car maker shakes up the 20-30 lakh SUV segment, I was hoping Toyota would but they disappointed me on that front. Perhaps we have to wait for the BMW X1 to show them how it's done !
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Old 21st April 2010, 17:50   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlokSriva View Post
However, I have my reservations against Fortuner. Think of it, in its segment, Fortuner has nothing additional to offer vis a vis the competition (Captiva - ACC, all 4-discs, AT at the same price point; Endy - 4 airbags and AT again, not to mention other bells and whistles)..
+1 to that. I think Fortuner did not change the game by virtue of its goodies. It just exploited its brand value with a cheaper product with a cut-throat price, compromising on true SUV'ness. It is just a glorified and morphed hilux or Innova. People buy it because they couldn't afford an LC or even a Prado.
I think VW has changed the game downwards from Camrys, Accords and Sonatas.
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Old 21st April 2010, 18:46   #28
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In my book BMW are the real game changers.
Going with this price rate, can't they offer the 1 series @ 15 lakh price range? Then it would really be big trouble for civic/corolla.
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Old 21st April 2010, 18:48   #29
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GTO, you have rightly shown concern about the Superb's DSG gearbox. In 2009, these had given problems but I believe this has been resolved now. Anything more on this?
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Old 21st April 2010, 19:10   #30
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Excellent writeup GTO. Personally, the title of Game Changer should go to Superb which offered excellent features for the money. I personally believe that it had invoked a thought process in the German camps by which they launched their executive editions.

As for Fortuner, I guess Looks+Brand value sells
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