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Old 7th January 2010, 12:08   #616
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Thumbs up Oh Man.... You are a real MAN.

Congratulations on this victory. Not many people would actually stand up for their rights and go through all the pain these days. But you have done it. And it ended exactly the way it should have. Good to see that justice prevailed. Congratulations again brother. A good way to begin a new year.
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Old 7th January 2010, 22:53   #617
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Congratulations Varun!

It's amazing to see that the might of TATA Motors - a battery of lawyers - notwithstanding, the court ruled in favor of Varun. A great achievement, which will only instill the confidence in the sole hope for this country - its' judiciary.
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Old 8th January 2010, 17:29   #618
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Quote:
Originally Posted by varunroy View Post
Dear All,

I have received the verdict that has been awaited not only by me but by the entire family of Team-bhp.

After almost 4 years of endless wait, the Scanned copies of the Original Order of The Supreme Court of India is here for all of you to see. Justice is for all to see.

I would like to personally thank each one of you for standing by me in the most difficult times of my driving life. Thanks for your encouragement, that would pep me up every time I started to lose hope.
Congrats on putting up a tough fight, Varun! I am pretty disappointed that Tata needed the Supreme Court to tell them to set things right for a customer.

After such a fight, I'd expect a complete vehicle replacement. But what matters is your conviction, and standing up for whats right. Hats off man! Congratulations again.
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Old 8th January 2010, 17:43   #619
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Hats off to you varun and congratulations on the verdict. You defenitely need to give yourself a pat on your back for standing up for your rights, and fighting and winning agaist all odds . Great job
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Old 8th January 2010, 20:04   #620
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Varun, congratulations!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
.....
After such a fight, I'd expect a complete vehicle replacement. ....
I do agree that it is very disheartening to see that even the Supreme Court does not respect the sentiments of an owner who has been through so much!

Repair, no replacement!!
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Old 8th January 2010, 20:56   #621
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I fail to understand Tata's attitude. Please read that judgment again.

When the case came up for admission, Tata's counsel submits that they will repair the car. W / T / F ???

Why could'nt they have done it earlier? Why drag the consumer all the way up to the Supreme Court?? Too unfortunate that the court did not award costs. They do not usually do it.
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Old 8th January 2010, 23:02   #622
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Default Shocked

QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
After such a fight, I'd expect a complete vehicle replacement. But what matters is your conviction, and standing up for whats right. Hats off man! Congratulations again.
[/quote]

Hi GTO.

If it were not for your encouragement, I wouldn't have come this far. ( Not to take away the credit from V1P3R without whom the thread wouldn't even have started). I guess Tata Motors is not like Mercedes

Frankly, I am shocked at the verdict and have taken considerable time to get over it. This also explains the delay of my posting the order on the forum.

Shocking, it takes four years to get a verdict from the highest Court of the country for a prayer for relief for a brand new vehicle being repaired again and again, visiting the workshop repeatedly for the same reasons. The verdict, go back again to the same place and same repairs. You call this justice.

The senior counsel Mr. Mukul Rohtagi for Tata Motors probably charges twice the amount for each appearance that I would have claimed in my prayer. This becomes more evident when the same counsel appears for the mining lobby of Karnataka seeking a stay order from the Supreme Court as reported in the main headlines of The Times of India, Bangalore Edition, dtd 5th January, 2010.

To make matters worse, even after 30 days have passed since the order, Tata Motors has not felt the need to communicate with me to find out about the repairs to be carried out. It is shameful that Tata Motors does not show confidence in the engineers of the Bangalore Regional Office, that they need to certify the car's fitness by the Senior-most engineer of Tata Motors. And why would this engineer say anything otherwise. One can be sure of what to expect. I don't know when the car would be delivered back to me and have serious reservations about its road worthiness as this model has been withdrawn from the market, making availability of spare parts that much more difficult.

The same order was worded more specifically by the State Forum on 21st Novembor, 2007 ( shall be posting the State Forum's Order also on this Forum). Tatas refused to respect this order. They made no efforts in extending the 6 month warranty period as stated in the order. Neither were the repairs carried out. The Senior Service Engineer of Manipal Motors did not test drive my vehicle before delivery as he did not have a valid driving licence.

Further, the Apex Court states that the repairs would be done free of cost during this period. Big deal, Tata Motors is bound to repair the car anyway, free of cost, since it is under warranty.

Others on this Forum should be doubly conscious in investing in products whose manufacturers do not support its customers and neither does the legal system.

I am disappointed.

So long.....

Last edited by varunroy : 8th January 2010 at 23:15.
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Old 8th January 2010, 23:17   #623
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Shame on TATA motors. You pretend to help the common man with a Nano and yet spend more money than would have required to fix the problem. Looks like everyone washed it off without properly addressing the problem.
Why was there no penalty on the manufacturer?

Last edited by srishiva : 8th January 2010 at 23:20.
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Old 8th January 2010, 23:36   #624
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Quote:
Originally Posted by varunroy View Post
Frankly, I am shocked at the verdict and have taken considerable time to get over it. This also explains the delay of my posting the order on the forum. .
Verdict?? What verdict?? The court has simply recorded a so called "concession".

Just a question - how come not even a word by what your counsel argued? (You were the the persons who filed the appell after all?)

.
Quote:
Shocking, it takes four years to get a verdict from the highest Court of the country.
You are lucky. It used to take ten or more years.

Quote:
The senior counsel Mr. Mukul Rohtagi for Tata Motors probably charges twice the amount for each appearance that I would have claimed in my prayer.
Typical fees for a Senior advocate in the Supreme Court is a six figure amount.


Quote:
To make matters worse, even after 30 days have passed since the order, Tata Motors has not felt the need to communicate with me to find out about the repairs to be carried out. It is shameful that Tata Motors does not show confidence in the engineers of the Bangalore Regional Office, that they need to certify the car's fitness by the Senior-most engineer of Tata Motors. And why would this engineer say anything otherwise. One can be sure of what to expect. I don't know when the car would be delivered back to me and have serious reservations about its road worthiness as this model has been withdrawn from the market, making availability of spare parts that much more difficult.
My reading says that the senior counsel advised Tata Motors against contesting the case; and make the concession in order to avoid an unfavourable verdict.

Quote:
Further, the Apex Court states that the repairs would be done free of cost during this period. Big deal, Tata Motors is bound to repair the car anyway, free of cost, since it is under warranty...
Again, did not your counsel argue??

This is NOT an allegation against your counsel.

it so often happens that the court does not record submissions by counsels who are not designated "seniors". This is an unfortunate fact; unless you have a long purse, you cannot find a tongue long enough to reach the lords' ears.

Unfortunate; this is the state of judicial system in this country.
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Old 9th January 2010, 00:49   #625
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Congratulations Varun, I appreciate the effort you took for this case for nearly 4 years.
But I feel that Tata should be fined and asked to take all expense of this case at least lawyer fee.

I don't think this verdict will change the way of TATA or others.

From this case, I think we can predict what Harish will get.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR View Post
Typical fees for a Senior advocate in the Supreme Court is a six figure amount.

Again, did not your counsel argue??

This is NOT an allegation against your counsel.

it so often happens that the court does not record submissions by counsels who are not designated "seniors". This is an unfortunate fact; unless you have a long purse, you cannot find a tongue long enough to reach the lords' ears.

Unfortunate; this is the state of judicial system in this country.
So a poor can never dearm to getting a justice from SC.

I think we should open an case with SC that judicail system should be changed.

Last edited by Sudan_NFS : 9th January 2010 at 00:56.
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Old 9th January 2010, 08:37   #626
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
But what matters is your conviction, and standing up for whats right.
This situation is ridiculous! What is the point of having convictions and standing for what is right when there is no reward for it? What is the point of Varun or the rest of us, Indians, spending significant amounts of time and money on "hope" and getting slapped in the face and kicked in the rear by people and institutions like ratan tata and india's supreme court?
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Old 9th January 2010, 09:53   #627
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Exactly, I was surprised at people congratulating him for his 'victory'. I dont see anything that even resembles justice. Justice would have been damages worth the cost of the car when it was purchased or an option to get a brand new car (if model withdrawn then similar vehicle today). This too is not actually punitive since its just a refund. Damages would have been a large amount over and above the cost of the car for the mental harassment.

I am very surprised that Tata refused to acknowledge a lemon which this one clearly is. Why is it so much harder for companies to understand that majority of the buyers wont complain if the product isnt shoddy to begin with. Sure there would be free loaders, but you risk loosing your entire clientele just to be on the safe side and denying any refunds / new cars.
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Old 9th January 2010, 12:29   #628
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Quote:
Just a question - how come not even a word by what your counsel argued? (You were the the persons who filed the appell after all?)
My counsel kept insisting that vehicle has visited the workshop for the same repairs for more than 30 times. He also told them about the number of days the vehicle has been with the workshop for want of certain Spare Parts. He kept insisting repeatedly that no new vehicle deserved so many repairs, but obviously things do not work that way as the Judges refused to see this simple logic.
Quote:
You are lucky. It used to take ten or more years.
Maybe I am fortunately unfortunate


Quote:
Typical fees for a Senior advocate in the Supreme Court is a six figure amount.
My counsel made a passing remark on this. He also told the Judges that his client would have been a happy man only if, Tata Motors had paid him a fraction of the senior counsels fees.



Quote:
My reading says that the senior counsel advised Tata Motors against contesting the case; and make the concession in order to avoid an unfavourable verdict.
Probably, but considering the seriousness of the claim the Judges would atleast given a decent hearing, rather than winding up the proceeding on the very first day. It took a year for all the 3 opposite Parties to receive the notices and respond to it . The Bangalore Regional Office got 3 chances to file their statements by the registrar. In one of the orders the following remark was made by the Registrar " Respondent Nos. 1 to 3 have filed counter affidavits but beyond time ". Unfortunately there is no punishment for such delaying tactics and deliberate harassment.


Quote:
it so often happens that the court does not record submissions by counsels who are not designated "seniors". This is an unfortunate fact; unless you have a long purse, you cannot find a tongue long enough to reach the lords' ears.
These are the precise words which my counsel had to tell me. The lords were just not keen on hearing his part of the argument in presence of the senior Counsel.


Quote:
Unfortunate; this is the state of judicial system in this country.
Yes, its most unfortunate that we are all helpless.


So long.....
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Old 9th January 2010, 13:44   #629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by varunroy View Post

Yes, its most unfortunate that we are all helpless.


So long.....
Varun - I feel sorry that this verdict left you disappointed.

Can you not appeal? What does your lawyer have to say about this?

All of this does not take away the fact that you fought for what you thought was right - irrespective of the consequences.

You may not have got what you wanted but in hindsight, it may have been far cheaper for the Tatas to give you a new vehicle and win you and others over.

Cheers,
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Old 9th January 2010, 14:10   #630
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varun,

your perseverence and doggedness is pursuing this matter to conclusion is admirable and inspiring.

You should make a precis of the whole experience from start to finish and highlight the specific parts that were more frustrating to you when it seemed you were up against an impossible objective. Then list out the factorrs that turned things around in each case. After 40 pages of history here, this thread needs a post like that from you.

That will serve as a guide for other unfortunate members and also give them valuable pointers.

My heartiest congratulations.

You need to sit back and savor the feeling of accomplishment.

Cheers.
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