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Old 12th November 2010, 01:08   #361
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Originally Posted by Guna View Post
I know this is off the topic but Fusion is considerably bigger then Figo. Actually the difference in dimensions between Fusion and yeti is not all that significant.
Fusion is shorter by 20+ cms but equals Yeti in width and vertical space.
Ah rats! Just when I thought I got it right!

Is the difference between the Fusion and Figo significant? I was under the impression that Ford simply remodeled the Fusion and shortened it so as to benefit from the exemption of tax for a small-hatch. Not to mention the reduction of height, that attributes to the smaller wheels and the drop in GC.

We need to see the Fusion and Yeti next to each other.

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Originally Posted by VeluM View Post
Naah, just sparking a debate there.



I get your point too. And there might be others who think that the Yeti doesn't exude the class and grace that a sedan does (and the associated "I'm rich!" tag). There are so many POVs in India, that some are bound to match the audience intended by the Mfg.

I'm one of those who think I should get what I pay for, and would (if I need a people mover in the 17L range) look at a Safari and save some cash, or maybe the Aria (I know they're as alike as chalk and cheese).

As a slightly off topic example of the Indian-ness of these decisions, one of my colleagues wanted a Punto MJD, and finally bought a second hand Alto. Nothing like each other, but his logic was that the Alto would do whatever he wanted from his car at a much lower price. There were other influencing factors behind the scene, but that was generally my point (where I'm coming from). Hence my opinion that the Yeti is overpriced a fair bit.

OT: Probably more importantly, I don't have the budget for a 17L people mover anyway!
It's just another way of looking at things. One can say the same about my outlook as well! And yes, it all depends on your priorities, your needs, your wants and your desires. Taking that into consideration, there is a market for almost every thing.

The Aria would make more sense to many. they would look at the Yeti and go: "Oh I can buy the Aria for 15-17 lakhs, take my family along and their friends too, and I'd still have some left over change for the fuel-bills! I can't do that in a Yeti" There is nothing wrong with this outlook. Where there is money, there will be money-minded.

I think Skoda would have done well by pricing the Yeti at 15 lakhs or so. 17 lakhs may not get the cash registers ringing as frequently as they'd hoped, but it would definitely sell. 15 lakhs would have been on the money! But every company has their own way of pricing their cars. Look at Honda, they generally get away with pricing their cars 1 lakh more than what people would have hoped for, save for the Jazz.
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Old 12th November 2010, 07:10   #362
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Honey! I shrunk the station wagon!!!

[quote=suhaas307;2137411]You'll be surprised that the Figo, which is loosely based on the Fusion, is actually pretty much the same size as the Fusion. They've just given it smaller wheels, a slight slope in the roof-line and they've lost those SUV-derived whee-arches. It boils down to the design at the end of the day. A big car can be made to look small and vice-versa.
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Old 12th November 2010, 12:00   #363
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I am not sure why the Yeti is being compared to the Figo or Fusion, in my opinion it should be in direct comparison with the CRV or likes.

below are some figures that I could dig up (all from manufacturers websites except Yeti which I got from Autocar)

peace,
~kg
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Skoda Yeti - The crossover SUV-comparo.jpg  

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Old 12th November 2010, 12:26   #364
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Originally Posted by kapilvgupta View Post
I am not sure why the Yeti is being compared to the Figo or Fusion, in my opinion it should be in direct comparison with the CRV or likes.

below are some figures that I could dig up (all from manufacturers websites except Yeti which I got from Autocar)

peace,
~kg
Even I am confused why people are comparing with cars like Figo and Fusion (Confusion). Skoda Yeti has created a new segment and even it cannot be compared with CRV or with cars like Laura. Yeti is a SUV with all comforts of a Car. Yeti has HBA, ASR, TCS, EDL, ESP which Fusion or Figo donít have. More over Yeti has a genuine off-road ability with 4X4 drive. So friends donít compare with MUVís like innova, Aria etc. Yeti is a new segment car.
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Old 12th November 2010, 12:42   #365
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Originally Posted by kapilvgupta View Post
I am not sure why the Yeti is being compared to the Figo or Fusion, in my opinion it should be in direct comparison with the CRV or likes.

below are some figures that I could dig up (all from manufacturers websites except Yeti which I got from Autocar)

peace,
~kg
Great compro. This should answer most of the speculations going on, and then some.

There you go - check out the dimensions compared with the CRV and Scorp. Almost identical and much larger than all the hatches (fabia/figo/fusion etc).

The other parameters would also bring out what it has to offer. Not to mention diesel with a an outstanding build quality and handling package.
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Old 12th November 2010, 12:42   #366
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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
Honey! I shrunk the station wagon!!!
What about: Honey, I blew up the Fusion!!

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Originally Posted by kapilvgupta View Post
I am not sure why the Yeti is being compared to the Figo or Fusion, in my opinion it should be in direct comparison with the CRV or likes.

below are some figures that I could dig up (all from manufacturers websites except Yeti which I got from Autocar)

peace,
~kg
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Originally Posted by ashok_lat View Post
Even I am confused why people are comparing with cars like Figo and Fusion (Confusion). Skoda Yeti has created a new segment and even it cannot be compared with CRV or with cars like Laura. Yeti is a SUV with all comforts of a Car. Yeti has HBA, ASR, TCS, EDL, ESP which Fusion or Figo donít have. More over Yeti has a genuine off-road ability with 4X4 drive. So friends donít compare with MUVís like innova, Aria etc. Yeti is a new segment car.
With the both of you!

I've stressed on this point repeatedly in my previous posts.

In terms of segments, the Yeti falls in a completely different one. But in terms of pricing, several potential customers will weigh their options. 17 lakhs is a lot of money to spend on a car, so the decision will be made wisely. So people will look at all options. It's a different matter that this sort of approach is wrong. But that's how the typical Indian customer is.
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Old 12th November 2010, 13:40   #367
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Originally Posted by ashok_lat View Post
Even I am confused why people are comparing with cars like Figo and Fusion (Confusion). Skoda Yeti has created a new segment and even it cannot be compared with CRV or with cars like Laura. Yeti is a SUV with all comforts of a Car. Yeti has HBA, ASR, TCS, EDL, ESP which Fusion or Figo donít have. More over Yeti has a genuine off-road ability with 4X4 drive. So friends donít compare with MUVís like innova, Aria etc. Yeti is a new segment car.
Comparison of Yeti with Fusion was only from the dimension perspective. Figo is compared with Fusion here and not yeti.
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Old 12th November 2010, 15:39   #368
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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
In terms of segments, the Yeti falls in a completely different one.
What is your definition of 'segment', and in which segment does Yeti fall? Some call Yeti a mini SUV. Do you agree? In contrast, Honda CRV is termed as a compact SUV. So what is the rationale behind comparing Yeti with CRV? Aren't they in different 'segments'?

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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
But in terms of pricing, several potential customers will weigh their options. 17 lakhs is a lot of money to spend on a car, so the decision will be made wisely. So people will look at all options. It's a different matter that this sort of approach is wrong. But that's how the typical Indian customer is.
Why do you think this approach is wrong?

We need to understand and appreciate the wisdom of the market. Many felt that i20 will not sell. Market has proved them wrong. Similar with Santa Fe. If market picks up Innova, there would be some wisdom behind it. We, as a auto-mative forum need to salute that wisdom instead of deriding it.
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Old 12th November 2010, 17:03   #369
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Originally Posted by sbraj View Post
What is your definition of 'segment', and in which segment does Yeti fall? Some call Yeti a mini SUV. Do you agree? In contrast, Honda CRV is termed as a compact SUV. So what is the rationale behind comparing Yeti with CRV? Aren't they in different 'segments'?
There are several segments in our market today. We have come a long way from the Padminis and 800s that sold like crazy. Today, hatch-backs fall under one main segment and sedans fall under another segment and SUVs fall under another segment.

Now, these segments can be further segregated even further. there are different 'breeds' of SUVs that are based on the ability, capacity, chassis, etc. The Safari/Scorpio are SUVs that fall under a more affordable segment. The Fortuner, Endeavour, etc fall under another segment that's according to the way it's priced.

The Yeti and the CRV and not full-blown SUVs. They are not meant for terrain-bashing and mud-slugging! Their purpose is to be able to drive 4+1 people in relative comfort whilst being able to drive through rough roads. In fact they have decent off-road capabilities as well. Basically, it's like a sedan that sits higher than one, giving it the ability to maneuver its occupants through bad roads.

The Yeti and the CRV are crossovers/compact SUVs.

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Originally Posted by sbraj View Post
Why do you think this approach is wrong?
I guess 'wrong' was too harsh a word and I'm sorry for using that. I just believe that people should buy not limit themselves to the 'bang for buck' ideology. They will realize that fantastic cars like the Jazz get neglected because of that. People end up buying a sedan which they won't probably need. The sedan has a larger foot-print and will consume more fuel as well. The Jazz will do exactly the same thing, while consuming lesser fuel and occupying a smaller area of space.

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Originally Posted by sbraj View Post
We need to understand and appreciate the wisdom of the market. Many felt that i20 will not sell. Market has proved them wrong. Similar with Santa Fe. If market picks up Innova, there would be some wisdom behind it. We, as a auto-mative forum need to salute that wisdom instead of deriding it.
I do appreciate the wisdom of the market. I do appreciate the fact that the i20 has done well despite negative reviews. The Santa Fe, we'll just have to wait and see in a years time how it has done. Every new car will garner interest and will probably sell well. But that's the initial response. The sales will definitely saturate. I will appreciate our market even more when city dwellers realize that they rather buy a Golf than a Jetta. That's when the market would have truly matured.

EDIT: Sorry for going slightly OT.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 12th November 2010 at 17:08.
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Old 12th November 2010, 18:20   #370
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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
How have you arrived at the figure of 10 lakhs? Is it because Mr Chandran has said so?



The Ford Fusion is a hatch-back. Not a crossover/niche vehicle like what the Yeti is. It just came with flared arches akin to SUVs and a slightly raised ride-height. Where as the Yeti is not a hatch-back at all! It's more like an estate-version of the Laura with a raised suspension. The Yeti is a much bigger car and falls in a completely different league.



Again, it is by no means a 'small' car or a 'tiny' car. It is probably as big as a Laura in terms of width and length, give or take a few inches. And no, it doesn't cost 17 lakhs because of its 'looks'. I've justified my statement below.



Why do you compare it to SUVs and MPVs which are sold at 10 lakhs? You shouldn't do that. The Yeti doesn't fall under the Scorpio/Safari/Innova segment at all! It's a soft-roader/crossover. It's made with quality material, comes loaded with features and provides space that you will find in cars like the Laura/Jetta/Golf. Why should it be priced at 12 lakhs? Yes, 17 lakhs is a bit too much. Much like how 8 lakhs for the Jazz is a bit much.

15 lakhs would have been quite alright.



Deceive? I don't think Skoda is looking to deceive anyone by pricing the Yeti at 17 lakhs. It depends on your priority, at the end of the day. It's not all about the size of the car.

You don't buy an Innova instead of a Jazz if you're a family of 4, just because it costs 10 lakhs and it's bigger! Unless you're that sort of a person. You buy what suits your needs and what suits you. You don't buy a car just because it's bigger than another car that's in the same price-bracket.

I request people not to misunderstand the purpose of the Yeti. So what if it's 17 lakhs? Don't relate the size of the car to its price. In that case, buy a Sumo. it's huge and it costs 5 lakhs.
Jazz doesn't sell much, But there are people who likes it and buys it.

So, Yeti is going to be 20+ on road, right? Then I have nothing much to say to Skoda lovers. :-)

Yes, there will be buyers. Not all are same. It also depends on how you see a vehicle. I expected a better pricing structure from Skoda, as they are now here in India for almost a decade. They should have developed ways to source components locally.

Octavia could still sell in India, if it goes little down. I love to buy a laura any day, But I still think the price is high. Surprisingly Superb was priced cheaper. I would love to buy one, if I have the money. Thats a fantastic premium sedan we get for a lower cost, here Nissan, Toyota and Honda failed.

Companies will certainly sell for a higher premium if they think they provide the best and when there are customers who think that the deserve buying it for such price. One recent example is, Aria.

Anyhow, I stand by my thought. Its not just Yeti, in general I am standing for right pricing strategy. You say a 2L more for an yeti (15L-17L) is fine with you. Some says, 20+ L would be right, I believe 12L would be good, and some think 10L.

I hope after 6 months we can find out what the majority thinks, only time can answer, till then I would like to watch TDs, Ownership reports, Skoda nightmares etc. :-) Lets go.

Last edited by agbenny : 12th November 2010 at 18:24.
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Old 12th November 2010, 21:34   #371
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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
The Yeti and the CRV and not full-blown SUVs. They are not meant for terrain-bashing and mud-slugging! Their purpose is to be able to drive 4+1 people in relative comfort whilst being able to drive through rough roads. In fact they have decent off-road capabilities as well. Basically, it's like a sedan that sits higher than one, giving it the ability to maneuver its occupants through bad roads.

The Yeti and the CRV are crossovers/compact SUVs.
Let us dig this classification bit a little more.

As per the links in my earlier post, a compact SUV is one whose length is 4250mm to 4600mm. So Yeti, with length of 4223mm, is not a compact SUV whereas CRV with length of 4575mm, is a compact SUV. Thus, logically speaking, Yeti is a mini SUV.

Yeti, being based on Laura platform is a crossover. CRV, being based on Civic platform is also a crossover. So, Yeti is a mini crossover SUV while CRV is a compact crossover SUV.

Further, there these can be soft roaders or real offroaders depending on their capabilities. Thus there will be compact softroader crossover SUVs and so on.


We can continue on this line and keep classifying the vehicles as this or that. The discussion will get more and more clumsy and, to me, it is like missing the woods for the trees. We lose the bigger picture. That is the problem with such classifications or 'segments'.

For an average buyer, it is much easier to base the purchase decision on needs, budget, popularity (herd mentality) and such mundane matters. Going by the above sort of classification or segments is not going to add much value.


This is the reason you see people looking for Punto only to buy Alto finally. Segments and classifications do not matter for them, as they are finding out about themselves more than anything else. As I said, we need to respect that.


Coming back to Skoda Yeti, considering the level of equipment available, I would be more worried about its reliability than anything else. Had it been Toyota Yeti, I would have accepted the price. But not a Skoda Yeti.

Total cost of ownership, you know.
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Old 12th November 2010, 22:00   #372
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Thats why I was saying (errr. Suhaas) Toyota bring in the RAV4!
And Mitsubishi bring in the RVR to heat up the sector!
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Old 12th November 2010, 23:26   #373
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Originally Posted by agbenny View Post
Jazz doesn't sell much, But there are people who likes it and buys it.

So, Yeti is going to be 20+ on road, right? Then I have nothing much to say to Skoda lovers. :-)

Yes, there will be buyers. Not all are same. It also depends on how you see a vehicle. I expected a better pricing structure from Skoda, as they are now here in India for almost a decade. They should have developed ways to source components locally.
Absolutely! There are buyers for every car! It just depends on how many? And that depends on whether it would be a success or not. For that, I believe the Yeti will sell just because it commands a premium even over Honda to some extent, just because it's European!

Well, looks like Skoda was aiming at a certain group of people who were in the market for a Sedan but wanted something that can handle Indian roads with aplomb. They looked at the Yeti and said: "Yes, this is a Laura on stilts, so let's price it in the same bracket!"

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Octavia could still sell in India, if it goes little down. I love to buy a laura any day, But I still think the price is high. Surprisingly Superb was priced cheaper. I would love to buy one, if I have the money. Thats a fantastic premium sedan we get for a lower cost, here Nissan, Toyota and Honda failed.
I doubt if the Octavia would sell. It's a very old car and by the time the new face-lift for the Laura had come (the Laura is nothing but the old Octavia in other markets), they had to do something about it. Besides, Skoda was looking to stop production of the Octavia and subsequently drop the prices of the Laura and introduce some new variants and a face-lift in order to make-up for the segment that they lost (the old Skoda Octavia occupied the segment below the Laura)

The Superb on the other hand is something dreams are made of. An area where the Europeans really exceed. See, Japanese cars in India are better of being under 20 lakhs. Anything above that and it's European car territory IMO. Nothing holds a candle to the Euro-cars. And that's why the Superb is over-all a better buy than say, an Accord or a Camry. That's because it's gives you that special feeling that the Japanese cars are yet to acquire and provide.

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Originally Posted by agbenny View Post
Companies will certainly sell for a higher premium if they think they provide the best and when there are customers who think that the deserve buying it for such price. One recent example is, Aria.
Precisely! The Aria is a great car and although it would have been better if it was a lakh lower, it justifies that price-tag.

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Originally Posted by agbenny View Post
Anyhow, I stand by my thought. Its not just Yeti, in general I am standing for right pricing strategy. You say a 2L more for an yeti (15L-17L) is fine with you. Some says, 20+ L would be right, I believe 12L would be good, and some think 10L.
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Originally Posted by agbenny View Post
I hope after 6 months we can find out what the majority thinks, only time can answer, till then I would like to watch TDs, Ownership reports, Skoda nightmares etc. :-) Lets go.
You're bang on here. It's just a pricing strategy and the only way we know for sure that the Yeti in priced for what is worth is when the Initial-ownership-reports begin to pour in. can't wait for GTO's TD. The TD car was spotted by a fellow BHPian. It was being driven by GTO and crew to Pune for, yes, the TD! Fingers crossed!

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Originally Posted by sbraj View Post
Let us dig this classification bit a little more.

As per the links in my earlier post, a compact SUV is one whose length is 4250mm to 4600mm. So Yeti, with length of 4223mm, is not a compact SUV whereas CRV with length of 4575mm, is a compact SUV. Thus, logically speaking, Yeti is a mini SUV.

Yeti, being based on Laura platform is a crossover. CRV, being based on Civic platform is also a crossover. So, Yeti is a mini crossover SUV while CRV is a compact crossover SUV.

Further, there these can be soft roaders or real offroaders depending on their capabilities. Thus there will be compact softroader crossover SUVs and so on.

We can continue on this line and keep classifying the vehicles as this or that. The discussion will get more and more clumsy and, to me, it is like missing the woods for the trees. We lose the bigger picture. That is the problem with such classifications or 'segments'.

For an average buyer, it is much easier to base the purchase decision on needs, budget, popularity (herd mentality) and such mundane matters. Going by the above sort of classification or segments is not going to add much value.

This is the reason you see people looking for Punto only to buy Alto finally. Segments and classifications do not matter for them, as they are finding out about themselves more than anything else. As I said, we need to respect that.

Coming back to Skoda Yeti, considering the level of equipment available, I would be more worried about its reliability than anything else. Had it been Toyota Yeti, I would have accepted the price. But not a Skoda Yeti.

Total cost of ownership, you know.
You've got a point there.

The segment's can be divided into several sub-segments over and over again, simply for the convenience of others.

But you're being a bit pedantic here about the Compact Crossover/Mini Crossover! Is there really such a thing? I've just heard of SUVs and Crossovers. And even though the Yeti is small, I think it still is a Crossover. It's not about the size, it's about its abilities as an SUV. If it can't mud-plug, then it's a Crossover. I'm not sure about the actual-size description.

Well, if it has the same equipment that the Laura has, shouldn't it be priced within the same price-bracket?

Yes, reliability is definitely an issue. Skoda needs to clean up their act. And the people should know how to deal with them. If they can handle the dealership, they should be able to avoid dealing with their dismal attitude.


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Originally Posted by ampere View Post
Thats why I was saying (errr. Suhaas) Toyota bring in the RAV4!
And Mitsubishi bring in the RVR to heat up the sector!
Exactly! The RAV4! Sorry, Ampere! Now I'm guessing the RAV4 will prove to be good competition for the Yeti. My guess is that they will price it similarly, if at all Toyota plans on bringing it down here. If it's being brought down via CBU, then it will land straight in the CRV territory. The Mitsubishi would be a hot contender for the crossover title as well.

Come on Mitsubishi and Toyota, bring them here!
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Old 13th November 2010, 08:12   #374
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But you're being a bit pedantic here about the Compact Crossover/Mini Crossover! Is there really such a thing? I've just heard of SUVs and Crossovers. And even though the Yeti is small, I think it still is a Crossover. It's not about the size, it's about its abilities as an SUV. If it can't mud-plug, then it's a Crossover. I'm not sure about the actual-size description.

Well, if it has the same equipment that the Laura has, shouldn't it be priced within the same price-bracket?
Yes, it is a bit pedantic, the whole classification bit. That was precisely my point. Trivializing the bigger picture, to prove a point.

The classifications that I mentioned are not created by me. I referred to the links in Wiki. This was intentionally done as a response to the comment that Yeti is in so-and-so segment, hence needs to be priced differently etc.

On the Laura vs Yeti prices, IMO Laura itself is overpriced. Hence the dropping of prices/discounts etc.
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Old 13th November 2010, 19:17   #375
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let the dacia duster come, and the toyota rav4 and the fiat sedici and the Hyundai IX35 (replacement for the Tucson) blah blah blah. All these should come in with diesel power and as CKD and involve max indigenization so as to bring the prices to acceptable levels for the type and character of cars they are and to provide fair value for our public. perhaps Ford can also revive their fusion and stick a 4WD system in it just for good measure!

only then will this segment heat up enough to bring some of these car companies to their senses in terms of fair pricing

and of course Uncle Kautilya (read: Jairam Ramesh) would need to allow these things to happen without spouting un-researched, incorrect things without doing any kind of homework.



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Originally Posted by ampere View Post
Thats why I was saying (errr. Suhaas) Toyota bring in the RAV4!
And Mitsubishi bring in the RVR to heat up the sector!

Last edited by shankar.balan : 13th November 2010 at 19:20.
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