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Old 15th May 2010, 11:13   #136
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Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
Talking about safety - under Indian driving conditions (basically means trucks & buses with no crash guards), I think a hatchback with its high bonnet is safer than a sedan.
By CMVR rules -
It is now mandatory for all trucks to have
1. FUPD - Front Underrun Protection device
2. RUPD - Rear Underrun Protection device
3. LUPD - Lateral Underrun Protection device.

The standards of these are though set keeping in mind the safety of the truck though.

as for busses -
The industry is headed towards lowfloor heights. So I guess the underrruns will not be a problem. Though it is painful to see that bus bodies in India are made on truck chassis.
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Old 15th May 2010, 20:36   #137
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Excellent work smartcat. Some more factors such as choice of colours, add-ons/options available etc may also be good to add. I know things will get more subjective when you add more parameters.
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Old 15th May 2010, 23:44   #138
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"Car cover" and "ganesha" are the only options/add-ons available in small cars!
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Old 17th May 2010, 10:20   #139
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Originally Posted by A350XWB View Post
Sorry, I disagree here. It's a myth that a bigger car is always safer, even though they don't have airbags or other safety equipment. There is a video in youtube which shows a collision between a last generation passenger van (a Renault Espace IIRC) and a humble latest generation Renault Modus. Even with its bulk compared to the Modus, the cabin intrusion and passenger injury (test dummies inside) were far worse than the little Modus, whose passenger compartment remained intact and had a far less chance of injury to the occupants. (Cannot attach the video because I'm writing from the office)
tata.com : Crash testing for dummies (and why we don?t do it)=
You have yourself stated that it was a last generation vs current generation comparo, what you need to look at is two current generation vehicles from the same manufacturer and compare them for safety.

Like say honda Jazz, city, civic, accord, CRV, and see which of these are safer. (But do note, just an higher NCAP rating does not imply higher safety across category as the rating are for that category of vehicles).

Though we would like to beat the laws of physics, Larger is Safer on the road - But subject to both the vehicles using the same technologies. (age wise).
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Old 17th May 2010, 12:48   #140
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Originally Posted by ACM View Post
You have yourself stated that it was a last generation vs current generation comparo, what you need to look at is two current generation vehicles from the same manufacturer and compare them for safety.

Like say honda Jazz, city, civic, accord, CRV, and see which of these are safer. (But do note, just an higher NCAP rating does not imply higher safety across category as the rating are for that category of vehicles).

Though we would like to beat the laws of physics, Larger is Safer on the road - But subject to both the vehicles using the same technologies. (age wise).
My point was, heavier is not always safer. That's why I used the term, always. And as you mentioned Manza in your earlier post and after reading the TATA blog, basically telling "We don't crash test our vehicles because the government does not mandate it", I will reserve my comments about it.
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Old 17th May 2010, 16:35   #141
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Originally Posted by gou View Post
Yeah, its possible I think. One would probably need to create pivot tables for this in excel. Unfortunately, I don't know it that well. But, still will try to find if there is some workaround for that. Prabably, it can be done by some conditional programming in excel. I will try that.



I understand. Even I am not a big fan of i20 or for that matter, but what amazed me more that even when I gave price an higher weightage than other parameters i20 came on top or second position. One of the reasons for that is that scores heavily on safety parameters. We should thank Hyundai for providing curtain airbags on a hatch. Even bigger sedans like Corolla, Civic and Cruze do not have curtain airbags AFAIK.
IMO, the price rating is not correct. A car, even with 1 rupee less, gets a higher ranking. Not fair. Something like Fn(Ex-showroom price - avg price of cars)
Yup. Easier said than done
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Old 17th May 2010, 17:22   #142
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Originally Posted by thalavoy View Post
IMO, the price rating is not correct. A car, even with 1 rupee less, gets a higher ranking. Not fair.
aha, but a car that reaches 100 kmph 0.01 second earlier also gets a higher ranking. When we start valuing a rupee or a micro-second, we start becoming subjective - in a quantitative ranking.

Anyhoo, I admit you have a valid point, but since we are considering multiple parameters, these things cancel themselves out.

Last edited by smartcat : 17th May 2010 at 17:23.
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Old 17th May 2010, 17:34   #143
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Originally Posted by A350XWB View Post
My point was, heavier is not always safer. That's why I used the term, always. And as you mentioned Manza in your earlier post and after reading the TATA blog, basically telling "We don't crash test our vehicles because the government does not mandate it", I will reserve my comments about it.
Err, where in the blog (unless I got the link wrong, it is actually a Media Reports section of Tata Motors) does it say that Tata does not crash test its vehicles.

The article was from an article in Indian Express from 2003, and it talks about the Scorpio not having been crash tested

QUOTE
The Mahindra Scorpio is every yuppie’s dream Sports Utility Vehicle: it’s affordable, it’s comfortable, and it looks muscular.
We say ‘‘looks’’ because the Scorpio has never been crash-tested since its launch a year ago. It has smoothly passed all mandatory tests in India, but crash tests? India doesn’t ask for them.
UNQUOTE

it also goes on to say

QUOTE
Anyway, the Scorpio is finally being crash tested abroad—only because it’s slated for exports to Western markets. You’ll know the results only by the end of the year. Mahindra currently exports the Scorpio to Italy, Serbia and Sri Lanka, where the norms, like India, are a lot less stringent.
UNQUOTE

Also about Tata Motors

QUOTE
While Tata has crash-tested both the Safari and the Indica, the same, however, cannot be said of the Sumo, the manufacturer’s multi-utility vehicle. Says a Tata Engineering (Telco) official, "The Sumo is based on the same body/frame construction of the Sierra. The latter was tested and certified crash-worthy, which is why the Sumo didn’t need one."
To their credit, however, Tata Engineering is the only manufacturer with a crash-test facility of their own.
UNQUOTE

Did I miss something ?

Last edited by indivic : 17th May 2010 at 17:36. Reason: Removed formatting tags of cut/paste
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Old 17th May 2010, 17:51   #144
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^^ You did not miss anything. TATA has a crash test facility and I appreciate that. But, is there a regulation telling that "certain criteria" has to be met? No. Do we have a crash test rating in India? No. Please see the crash test rating of Nano in Europe. It fared well. But, with certain reinforcements on the Indian model. Now what does that mean?
A strict regulation is necessary, especially in a country like India, to have safer cars. From the same article - ‘‘It will take us at least three years to start matching global norms,’’ said B. Bhanot, director, ARAI. This was a 2003 article and plus three years is 2006. Now, we are in 2010 and where are we regarding standardization of safety tests?
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Old 17th May 2010, 17:57   #145
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I'm attaching my XL sheet - but beware, my XL sheets are not very professionally done. Not sure how useful it would be to others!
Smartcat congrats.

Sorry for my ignorance - could you please let me know how to open the attached zip file. I've tried to extract the files-but somehow it's not opening properly.

Last edited by gaddiwale : 17th May 2010 at 17:58.
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Old 17th May 2010, 18:05   #146
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Originally Posted by gaddiwale View Post

Sorry for my ignorance - could you please let me know how to open the attached zip file. I've tried to extract the files-but somehow it's not opening properly.
You are using the older version of Excel. Smarcat has saved it in the latest version. Anyway, I am attaching the same in the older version format. Hope it helps.
Attached Files
File Type: xls smallcar.xls (149.5 KB, 514 views)
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Old 17th May 2010, 18:14   #147
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You are using the older version of Excel. Smarcat has saved it in the latest version. Anyway, I am attaching the same in the older version format. Hope it helps.
Thanks for the help.
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Old 18th May 2010, 13:26   #148
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Fantastic analysis and a very professional product (Excel sheet). Now you will have to do this every year with the latest models!
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Old 18th May 2010, 15:58   #149
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Your wish is my command, sir!

I'm waiting for VW Polo diesel numbers - that should be interesting.
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Old 21st May 2010, 21:03   #150
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Default A subjective evaluation of the current Petrol hatches

Here is a rating for the current Petrol hatches in India. They are given a rating of 1-5 based on my experience. Please post your comments so that we can come to a final conclusion.
Small Car Buyer Guide - A Ready Reckoner-capture.png
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