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Old 26th May 2010, 14:01   #166
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@smartcat
Now that we have Nissan Micra details, how about including the same in the race. The Micra brochure is available at:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post1905391
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Old 26th May 2010, 15:27   #167
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Nissan Micra seems to be nicely equipped. However, we need road-test data from magazines to run a check on the Micra.

VW Polo Diesel's engine performance numbers are out - poor outright acceleration but good driveability (20 - 80 kmph in 3rd gear & 40 - 100 kmph in 4th gear). On paper, the performance is a lot similar to that of Punto MJD but FE seems to be a lot better.

Will add Polo diesel & Micra to the list when we have the complete data on the latter.
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Old 26th May 2010, 15:47   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
Nwe need road-test data from magazines to run a check on the Micra.
Don't we have an admin who absolutely free to do the honors before the magazines.
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Old 22nd July 2010, 15:34   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
OK here is the reworked points system for "SAFETY" - hopefully this one is more logical than before.

To begin with - a very interesting ranking of small cars braking distance. Nobody gives too much attention to this, but in my opinion, a short braking distance is an excellent "active safety" parameter. This data is from Overdrive magazine.

The ranking of braking distance from 100 kmph to zero kmph in metres -

Maruti A-Star 1.0 Petrol ------------- 40.8 m
Hyundai i20 1.2 Petrol --------------- 43.02 m
Chevrolet U-VA 1.2 Petrol ----------- 45.5 m
Ford Figo `1.4 Diesel ---------------- 47.9 m
Fiat Punto 1.4 Petrol --------------- 48.2 m
Fiat Palio 1.1 Petro -----------------l 48.2 m
Honda Jazz 1.2 Petrol --------------- 48.25 m
Maruti Ritz 1.2 Petrol ---------------- 48.8 m
Fiat Punto 1.3 Diesel ----------------- 49.6 m
Skoda Fabia 1.2 Petrol --------------- 49.66 m
Hyundai i10 1.1 Petrol ---------------- 49.8 m
Hyundai i10 1.2 Petrol --------------- 49.8 m
Fiat Palio 1.6 Petrol ----------------- 50.1 m
Skoda Fabia 1.4 Diesel -------------- 51 m
Maruti Swift 1.2 Petrol -------------- 51.5 m
Maruti Estilo 1.0 Petrol -------------- 52.3 m
Fiat Palio 1.3 Diesel ----------------- 53.09 m
Fiat Punto 1.2 Petrol ---------------- 53.65 m
Maruti Ritz 1.3 Diesel ---------------- 54 m
VW Polo 1.2 Petrol ----------------- 56.4 m
Maruti Swift 1.3 Diesel --------------- 56.6 m
Chevrolet Spark 1.0 Petrol ----------- 58.1 m
Hyundai Getz 1.1 Petrol -------------- 60 m
Hyundai Getz 1.3 Petrol -------------- 60 m
Tata Nano 0.6 Petrol ----------------- 60.17 m
Tata Indica 1.4 Diesel ---------------- 62.1 m
Hyundai i20 1.4 Diesel ---------------- 65.36 m
Tata Vista 1.3 Diesel ----------------- 68.7 m

Analysis:

- Maruti A-star owners better watch the rear view mirror once before stomping on the brakes. 40 metres from 100-0 kmph is seriously impressive - this is Audi/BMW territory.

- Tata Vista 1.3 diesel has a truly disappointing braking distance. The difference between Vista 1.3 Diesel and its close competitor Figo 1.4 diesel is a whopping 20 metres!

- Hyundai i20 1.4 diesel too is terribly disappointing - no wonder Hyundai is packing it with airbags. However, i20 1.2 petrol stops within 43 metres. I think i20's diesel engine alone weighs a ton!

Unfortunately, we won't be assigning any points to braking distance. Because we don't have braking distance data on the following cars -

Chevrolet Beat 1.2 Petrol
Tata Vista 1.2 Petrol
Tata Indica 1.2 Petrol
Maruti WagonR 1.1 Petrol
Hyundai Santro 1.1 Petrol
Maruti 800 0.8 Petrol
Maruti Alto 0.8 Petrol
Ford Figo 1.2 Petrol


Coming back to Safety features of the small cars, I'm attaching this image for easy reference.

Attachment 343575


A little bit of glossary:

EBD: EBD is Electronic Brake Force distribution - where brakes are applied with different force on each wheel, based on load on the wheel. The user will have better control over the vehicle under panic braking conditions.

Seatbelt Pretensioner: Seatbelt tightens and holds the passengers in place on impact.

Dual Stage Airbags: Airbags are deployed at variable force, depending on the severity of impact. These are "smarter" airbags.

ISOFIX mounting points: Do a wikipedia search for ISOFIX

I will be assigning 16 pts for dual airbags, 8 pts for side airbags, 6 pts for ABS, 2 pts for EBD and 1 pt each for the other four safety features mentioned above.

Ranking of small cars based on SAFETY:

Hyundai i20 1.2 Petrol ------------- 33 pts
Hyundai i20 1.4 Diesel ------------- 33 pts
Fiat Punto 1.4 Petrol -------------- 26 pts
Fiat Punto 1.3 Diesel -------------- 26 pts
Honda Jazz 1.2 Petrol ------------- 25 pts
Maruti Swift 1.2 Petrol -------------25 pts
Tata Vista 1.2 Petrol--------------- 25 pts
Tata Vista 1.3 Diesel -------------- 25 pts
Ford Figo 1.2 Petrol --------------- 24 pts
Ford Figo `1.4 Diesel -------------- 24 pts
Maruti Ritz 1.2 Petrol -------------- 24 pts
Skoda Fabia 1.4 Diesel ------------- 24 pts
Skoda Fabia 1.2 Petrol-------------- 24 pts
Hyundai i10 1.2 Petrol -------------- 23 pts
Chevrolet Beat 1.2 Petrol ----------- 22 pts
Maruti A-Star 1.0 Petrol ------------ 22 pts
Maruti Estilo 1.0 Petrol ------------- 22 pts
VW Polo 1.2 Petrol ----------------- 22 pts
Chevrolet Spark 1.0 Petrol ---------- 14 pts
Chevrolet U-VA 1.2 Petrol ----------- 14 pts
Fiat Punto 1.2 Petrol ---------------- 8 pts
Maruti Ritz 1.3 Diesel ---------------- 8 pts
Maruti Swift 1.3 Diesel--------------- 8 pts

The following cars get no points for safety -

Fiat Palio 1.1 Petrol
Fiat Palio 1.6 Petrol
Fiat Palio 1.3 Diesel
Hyundai i10 1.1 Petrol
Hyundai Getz 1.1 Petrol
Hyundai Getz 1.3 Petrol
Hyundai Santro 1.1 Petrol
Maruti 800 0.8 Petrol
Maruti Alto 0.8 Petrol
Maruti WagonR 1.1 Petrol
Tata Nano 0.6 Petrol
Tata Indica 1.2 Petrol
Tata Indica 1.4 Diesel

My View: Although Hyundai i20 diesel wins the SAFETY contest, I cannot digest the fact that it takes 68.7 metres to stop from 100-0 kmph. Especially when Ford Figo diesel does it in 47.9 metres.

Assigning equal weightage to performance, driveability, running costs, on road price & safety, the ranking of small cars would be -

1) Hyundai i20 1.4 Diesel ------------ 125 pts
2) Maruti Swift 1.3 Diesel ----------- 120 pts
3) Maruti A-Star 1.0 Petrol ---------- 119 pts
4) Maruti Ritz 1.3 Diesel ------------- 117 pts
5) Ford Figo `1.4 Diesel ------------- 115 pts
6) Tata Vista 1.3 Diesel ------------- 115 pts
7) Skoda Fabia 1.4 Diesel ------------110 pts
8) Maruti Swift 1.2 Petrol ------------ 108 pts
9) Honda Jazz 1.2 Petrol ------------- 107 pts
10) Maruti Ritz 1.2 Petrol ------------- 106 pts
11) Maruti Estilo 1.0 Petrol ----------- 106 pts
12) Hyundai Santro 1.1 Petrol ---------105 pts
13) Fiat Punto 1.3 Diesel ------------- 103 pts
14) Fiat Palio 1.3 Diesel -------------- 100 pts
15) Chevrolet Spark 1.0 Petrol -------- 98 pts
16) Hyundai i10 1.2 Petrol ------------ 94 pts
17) Chevrolet Beat 1.2 Petrol --------- 94 pts
18) Fiat Palio 1.6 Petrol --------------- 92 pts
19) Hyundai i10 1.1 Petrol ------------ 90 pts
20) Hyundai i20 1.2 Petrol ------------ 87 pts
21) Ford Figo 1.2 Petrol ---------------79 pts
22) Fiat Punto 1.4 Petrol -------------- 77 pts
23) Maruti Alto 0.8 Petrol ------------- 76 pts
24) Skoda Fabia 1.2 Petrol ------------ 75 pts
25) Maruti WagonR 1.1 Petrol ---------- 75 pts
26) Hyundai Getz 1.3 Petrol ----------- 72 pts
27) Maruti 800 0.8 Petrol -------------- 71 pts
28) Tata Vista 1.2 Petrol -------------- 69 pts
29) Tata Indica 1.4 Diesel ------------- 67 pts
30) Chevrolet U-VA 1.2 Petrol ---------- 66 pts
31) VW Polo 1.2 Petrol ---------------- 65 pts
32) Tata Nano 0.6 Petrol -------------- 65 pts
33) Tata Indica 1.2 Petrol ------------- 63 pts
34) Fiat Punto 1.2 Petrol -------------- 53 pts
35) Hyundai Getz 1.1 Petrol ------------ 46 pts
36) Fiat Palio 1.1 Petrol --------------- 42 pts

Analysis:

Say Hello! to Maruti A-star - a consistent Rahul Dravid type performer in each match, but just doesn't draw too much attention to himself.

In reply to
My View: Although Hyundai i20 diesel wins the SAFETY contest, I cannot digest the fact that it takes 68.7 metres to stop from 100-0 kmph. Especially when Ford Figo diesel does it in 47.9 metres.

pl see my thread topic
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...-car-fans.html (The Hyundai i20 crdi - a simple answer to car fans)
22nd July 2010, 15:13

Guess Overdrive used a non ABS & EBD car
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Old 12th February 2011, 19:26   #170
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Hi Smartcat, I simply loved this thread the last time I went through it. Just as an afterthought, wouldn't it be great to update this thread with some new models that have been launched? For eg. Fabia 1.6, Polo 1.6, etc... Or are you waiting for some more models to launch to do a fresh comparison?

Regards,

Saleem.
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Old 14th February 2011, 15:54   #171
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Default Re: Small Car Buyer Guide - A Ready Reckoner

Hey Saleem, I'll put it down in my (currently) rather large "Things To Do" list.
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Old 23rd April 2011, 12:05   #172
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Default Re: Small Car Buyer Guide - A Ready Reckoner

@Smartcat, I absolutely love this thread and i am stunned by the effort which has gone into making such a detailed comparison of all the cars. I own the i20 Diesel (Saw this thread only after i brought the car), Feels nice to see it at the top.

OT : Would'nt it be nice if you have a poll for all the subjective factors (Handling, Looks, Build Quality etc) for all the cars and based on the results, give it weight age and add it to the final points of each car. You can have 2 lists of results then, one with and one without the subjective factors considered.
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Old 23rd April 2011, 13:33   #173
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Default Re: pl see my thread topic

Great work @smartcat

however if you can put the spreadsheets online then people may be able tweak the weightage of each parameter (e.g for overall costs FE and on-road-price should be weighed based on fuel prices as well as monthly mileage - both depend on the user and vary with time)
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Old 24th May 2011, 16:29   #174
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An absolutely great effort. Thanks for putting in your time on this for the larger benefit of a lot of people. I first looked at your sedan comparison, and then looked at this. Would it be possible if time permits to add things like normalization etc which were done in Sedan list, to this as well?

I know that there are multiple contributors for it. But with the same set of disclaimers etc., it would be great if that same "smart" calculation can be incorporated for small car comparison as well.
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Old 24th May 2011, 16:57   #175
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Default Re: Small Car Buyer Guide - A Ready Reckoner

Hey all, expect the small car quantitative ranking/comparo in a few days. And yes, this time, subjective factors like looks, handling etc will be included too. The list of small cars is rather big - there are 4 variants each of Punto and Vista alone!

The contenders -

Chevrolet Beat 1.2 LT Option (P)
Chevrolet Spart 1.0 LT (P)
Chevrolet U-VA 1.2 LT (P)

Fiat Grande Punto 1.2 Fire Emotion (P)
Fiat Grande Punto 1.4 Fire Emotion Option Pack (P)
Fiat Grande Punto 1.3 Multijet Emotion Option Pack (D)
Fiat Grande Punto 1.3 Multijet 90 HP (D)

Ford Figo 1.2 Titaniun Duratec (P)
Ford Figo 1.4 Titanium Duratorq (D)

Honda Jazz 1.2 X (P)

Hyundai i10 1.1 Magna (P)
Hyundai i10 1.2 Asta M/T (P)
Hyundai i20 1.2 Asta O (P)
Hyundai i20 1.4 CRDi Asta O (D)
Hyundai Santro Xing 1.1 GLS (P)

Maruti Alto 0.8 LXi (P)
Maruti Alto 1.0 VXi K10 (P)
Maruti A-Star 1.0 ZXi (P)
Maruti Estilo 1.0 VXi (P)
Maruti Wagon R 1.0 VXi ABS (P)
Maruti Ritz 1.2 ZXi (P)
Maruti Ritz 1.3 VDi ABS (D)
Maruti Swift 1.2 ZXi (P)
Maruti Swift 1.3 VDi ABS (D)

Nissan Micra 1.2 XV (P)
Nissan Micra 1.4 XV - Pemium Diesel (D)

Skoda Fabia 1.6 MPi Elegance (P)
Skoda Fabia 1.2 TDi Elegance (D)

Tata Nano 0.6 LX (P)
Tata Indica 1.2 eV2 Xeta GLX (P)
Tata Vista 1.2 Safire Aqua (P)
Tata Vista 1.4 Terra 90 HP (P)
Tata Vista 1.3 Quadra Aura+ (D)

VW Polo 1.2 Highline (P)
VW Polo 1.6 Highline (P)
VW Polo 1.2 Highline (D)

The following cars have been removed from the Small Car Buyers Guide 2011 -

Fiat Palio
Hyundai Getz

Last edited by smartcat : 24th May 2011 at 17:02.
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Old 25th May 2011, 19:13   #176
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Default Re: Small Car Buyer Guide - A Ready Reckoner

ROUND NO. 1 - PERFORMANCE

All the 36 cars are checked for 6 different performance parameters -

- 0 - 60 kmph time in seconds
- 0 - 100 kmph time in seconds
- Top speed in kmph
- 20 - 80 kmph in 3rd gear in seconds
- 40 - 100 kmph in 4th gear in seconds
- Standing to quarter mile (400 metres) in seconds.

The car which has the best combination of all the above 6 parameters will top the PERFORMANCE charts.


0 - 60 KMPH TIME IN SECS:


Name:  060kmph.JPG
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0 - 100 KMPH TIME IN SECS:


Name:  0100kmph.JPG
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TOP SPEED IN KMPH:


Name:  topspeed.JPG
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20 - 80 KMPH IN 3RD GEAR IN SECS:


Name:  3rdgear.JPG
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40 - 100 KMPH IN 4TH GEAR IN SECS:


Name:  4thgear.JPG
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0 - 400 METRES IN SECS:


Name:  quartermile.JPG
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Combining the points earned by each car for each of the 6 performance parameters, we arrive at the total score for each car.


Small Car Buyer Guide - A Ready Reckoner-megatable.jpg

[Click on the image to get a larger, clearer one]


How To Read The Table -

- Each car can score a maximum of 36 pts in each of the 6 categories

- Taking the example of Nissan Micra Diesel, it scores 21 pts in 60 kmph dash (average rating), 17 pts in 100 kmph dash (average rating), 9 pts in top speed (poor rating), 34 pts in 3rd gear acceleration (Excellent rating), 30 pts in 4th gear acceleration (very good rating) and 23 pts in quarter mile dash (above average rating).

- So you can infer that if you are looking for outright acceleration, this is not the car for you. But you could look at Micra diesel if you want good driveability in the city.

Re-basing the points earned by each car on the scale of 1 - 36, the performance ranking of small cars looks like this -


Name:  performance.JPG
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Comments:

- Hyundai i10's new Kappa engine blitzes the competition in outright acceleration. Hits 60 kmph in 4.99 seconds and 100 kmph in 12.04 seconds flat!

- VW Polo and Skoda Fabia are the hot hatches. Oddly, Maruti Swift diesel gives it company with scorching performances in all 6 parameters.

- i20 diesel loses out a bit on performance because of poor 3rd gear acceleration from 20 kmph. Turbolag coming into the picture here.

- Punto 90 HP diesel and Vista 90 HP petrol perform well in the rankings. Linea's engine in the Punto helps it score well when compared to the normal 75 HP model.

- Weezy 1.2 petrol engines on Punto, Vista, Polo, Figo and Beat result in below average performance ratings. However, 1.2 petrols on i10, Swift & Ritz score fairly well.

- Most diesels score well in 3rd & 4th gear acceleration figures while petrols score low. Conversely, most diesels score poorly in outright acceleration figures while most petrols score very well.
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Old 26th May 2011, 08:55   #177
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Default Re: Small Car Buyer Guide - A Ready Reckoner

I do not understand the obsession with speed. Realistically speaking, we are only comparing small cars - not exactly Ferraris and Lamborghinis. 0-100, 30-80, 40-100 are all great metrics but at the end of the day, how many times are you going to be able to enjoy any of the aforementioned metrics in a city like, say, Mumbai, Pune, Delhi, Chennai, Kolkata, Bangalore, Hyderabad, the list goes on.. and practically includes every nook and corner in the country - given our road conditions.

In my opinion, a much better set of metrics should give greater emphasis on what an audience of small cars desires when it buys a small car.
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Old 26th May 2011, 10:38   #178
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Default Re: Small Car Buyer Guide - A Ready Reckoner

Way to go Smartcat, another Masterpiece collation of Data.

Recently my friend picked up the new I10 Kappa and its really an improvement to say the least. My cousin has the old one and that lacked a bit of driveability personally. Hyundai have seemed to improve that (if not fix it) with the new I10.

Wonder what a further refined 1.2 Kappa or a 1.4 MT might do to the I20!!
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Old 26th May 2011, 10:51   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnn View Post
In reply to
My View: Although Hyundai i20 diesel wins the SAFETY contest, I cannot digest the fact that it takes 68.7 metres to stop from 100-0 kmph. Especially when Ford Figo diesel does it in 47.9 metres.

Guess Overdrive used a non ABS & EBD car
Actually the figures are correct and ABS and EBD do not make a difference in stopping distances but rather prevent sliding and skidding.

The weightage for Braking distances needs to be even higher (ofcourse coupled with ABS) as and Airbags helps only after an accident while brakes prevent one and we all know which is better.

Also in case of the i20 it is a know -ve that the diesel has the worst braking distance in the range, and the petols are better. It may be due to the engine weight up front being higher for the Diesel engine and the resultant weight distribution effect on all four wheel.

The braking distance of some much larger SUV / MUV are better than that of the I20 diesel but this is not an error but a sad reality that Hyundai needs to correct with better gear (read bigger disks and better pads) or possibly disks all around.
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Old 26th May 2011, 11:17   #180
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Default Re: Small Car Buyer Guide - A Ready Reckoner

Smartcat, you are putting quite a lot effort i agree. But dont understand the idea of comparing all the cars together which are hatch. You are comparing 8-9 Lac cars with Nano & alto. Is this fair? Nope i guess. How can these small cars compete with big cars like Jazz, Polo, Punto etc? They are totally different segment all together. I guess in hatch there are 3 segments. 1st is entry level cars like Nano, Alto, Spark etc. 2nd is bigger hatch cars like Swift, Wagon R, Ritz, I10, Figo etc. 3rd one is premium hatch cars like Polo, Jazz, I20, Punto etc. You need to compare these cars together. Then only we will get the correct picture.
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