Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 4th May 2010, 15:45   #46
Team-BHP Support
 
ampere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 15,605
Thanked: 8,599 Times
Default

Cat,

Where is interior space and boot space being considered?
ampere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2010, 16:16   #47
Distinguished - BHPian
 
deetjohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Kochi
Posts: 4,049
Thanked: 7,384 Times
Default Rank them!

Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post

Not sure if I got that. What different lists?
smartcat, what I meant was ranking them in all the lists(measurables or Part as you call it) as mentioned below.

List 1: Part I - OUTRIGHT PERFORMANCE

1) Fiat Palio 1.6 Petrol -------------- 11.9 secs
2) Hyundai i20 1.4 Diesel ------------ 13 secs
3) Hyundai i10 1.2 Petrol ------------ 13.02 secs
4) Maruti Swift 1.2 Petrol ------------ 13.09 secs
5) Honda Jazz 1.2 Petrol ------------- 13.29 secs
.
.
36)

List 2: Part II - DRIVEABILITY (IN-GEAR ACCELERATION)

1) Tata Vista 1.3 Diesel -------------- 11.79 secs
2) Fiat Palio 1.6 Petrol --------------- 11.9 secs
3) Maruti Swift 1.3 Diesel ------------- 11.96 secs
4) Maruti Ritz 1.3 Diesel -------------- 12.52 secs
5) Fiat Punto 1.3 Diesel ---------------12.57 secs
.
.
36)

and henceforth.

so if I am tracking a particular car (say Ford Figo), it becomes easier for me to understand where Figo stands in comparison to others on a specific parameter.
deetjohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2010, 16:28   #48
BHPian
 
holysmoke's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 227
Thanked: 40 Times
Default

We can do all the analysis we want, but in the end it is upto the buyer to see what fits him best. It is a bit like stats, gives you important information but is not the whole story.

For example, we can consider interior space, but will we consider back seat angle? It makes a lot of difference, a good angle can utilize even lesser space much better whereas a bad angle may feel claustrophobic even with more legroom. Will we see features like how much greenhouse there is? how wide the car is?

My point is not to ridicule the thread. Far from it. It is an impressive comparo of the important features in a car, but everyone has different needs and different tastes. A lot of people dont buy the swift because it is "too common", while some feel that the car has sold so much, it is tried and tested. My brother likes the backseat of the swift because he feels isolated from the world, whereas a lot of people feel claustrophobic with the high shoulderline.

Last edited by holysmoke : 4th May 2010 at 16:29.
holysmoke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2010, 17:21   #49
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 334
Thanked: 18 Times
Default

Great Initiative Smartcat

One more thing that you would want to add to your research list is the after sales service and spare part expenses. Most of the people looking for small hatch fail to assess this aspect and blindly go for Maruti vehicles just for the low running costs. Some light on this area would certainly help the prospective buyers in this/visiting this forum
ravikn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2010, 18:05   #50
Senior - BHPian
 
romeomidhun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 2,633
Thanked: 1,903 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ravikn View Post
One more thing that you would want to add to your research list is the after sales service and spare part expenses. Most of the people looking for small hatch fail to assess this aspect and blindly go for Maruti vehicles just for the low running costs.
Ignorance at the peak!

Maruti has one of the best after sales service and lowest spare part costs in the country. Most of the people looking for small hatch assess this aspect well and go for Maruti vehicles - for the low running costs, best after sales service and lowest spare part costs! FIAT is a different story.

Last edited by romeomidhun : 4th May 2010 at 18:10.
romeomidhun is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2010, 20:15   #51
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 334
Thanked: 18 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
Ignorance at the peak!

Maruti has one of the best after sales service and lowest spare part costs in the country. Most of the people looking for small hatch assess this aspect well and go for Maruti vehicles - for the low running costs, best after sales service and lowest spare part costs! FIAT is a different story.

Dear Friend, I know that Maruti has these two factors as a big advantage for them. IMHO, I truly think that the quality of spares is not great or at par with B+ segment hatches in India. I do not want to get into an argument or make this a FIAT/Maruti bashing thread. Pls do send pvt messages/or create a new thread if you would like to continue the discussion

SmartCat has invested lot of time on getting all the details. Lets encourage him to do the good work
ravikn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2010, 20:16   #52
Distinguished - BHPian
 
smartcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,977
Thanked: 11,930 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqueman View Post
Brand value(in terms of customer trust) could be another parameter which can be included for analysis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ravikn View Post
One more thing that you would want to add to your research list is the after sales service and spare part expenses.
Unfortunately, these two parameters can only be found out after some kind of large survey. How about a mail to all the XXXXX team-bhp members with a survey attached?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ampere View Post
Cat, Where is interior space and boot space being considered?
At the end!

Quote:
Originally Posted by deetjohn View Post
smartcat, what I meant was ranking them in all the lists(measurables or Part as you call it) as mentioned below.
Got it - understood!

Quote:
Originally Posted by holysmoke View Post
We can do all the analysis we want, but in the end it is upto the buyer to see what fits him best. It is a bit like stats, gives you important information but is not the whole story.

My point is not to ridicule the thread. Far from it. It is an impressive comparo of the important features in a car, but everyone has different needs and different tastes
I couldn't agree more. Eventhough I have started this thread, it really doesn't matter to me where the Punto stands in the ranking. I know I will be taking my money to a Fiat dealer.

But I know what I want from my car. This numbers exercise will be useful to only those who are confused about which small car to buy.

Quote:
For example, we can consider interior space, but will we consider back seat angle? It makes a lot of difference, a good angle can utilize even lesser space much better whereas a bad angle may feel claustrophobic even with more legroom.
I think you are talking about COMFORT here, while I'm talking about PRACTICALITY. Since we are talking numbers, let me explain with this mathematical equation.

COMFORT = Ride quality + rear leg room + width of the seat + backseat angle + suppleness of the seat.

Since most of the parameters on the other side of the equation are either subjective or measurements are not available. So measuring comfort is out of question in this exercise. But practicality is not.

PRACTICALITY = rear leg room + boot space.

When we compare the two parameters on the right hand side of the equation, we get crystal clear measureable/comparable info like this -

Honda Jazz is more practical than Fiat Punto
Maruti Estilo is more practical than Maruti A-Star
Tata Vista is more practical than Maruti Swift

You can try arguing against the above statements, but I'm pretty sure it won't come out well.

Quote:
My brother likes the backseat of the swift because he feels isolated from the world
Don't be offended, but I think your bro is a bit weird!
smartcat is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2010, 20:54   #53
BHPian
 
vvvinod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 192
Thanked: 9 Times
Default

smartcat : Great work, this thread has answer to most of the questions in "what car " section

5 Star all the way
vvvinod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2010, 01:25   #54
Distinguished - BHPian
 
smartcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,977
Thanked: 11,930 Times
Default

Thank you for the compliments vinod.


Part V - SAFETY


Safety is becoming such an important parameter these days that it has even become a dealbreaker. That is, if a particular car doesn't have safety kit like airbags and ABS, its is immediately removed from the shortlist by the potential buyer.

ABS: Since most of the small cars are bought by first time or inexperienced car buyers, ABS is an absolute necessity especially in the rains. ABS will save Bunty and his car from skidding off the road into a ditch when he stomps on the brakes hard. So I'm assigning 9 pts for cars that offer only ABS.

Dual Airbags: When Bunty and his drunk friends hit a tree at full speed, they would definitely like to be caressed by a soft air-filled pillow. That's why I'm assigning 18 pts for cars that offer dual airbags. Cars that offer dual airbags & ABS get (18 + 9) = 27 pts.

Side Airbags: Although we Indians prefer to crash head-on, Bunty might suddenly decide to stop in the middle of a railway track infront of an oncoming train. Cars equipped with side airbags will fare better in such situations. I'm assigning 9 pts for cars equipped with side airbags. So basically, cars that are equipped with dual airbags, ABS & side airbags get the maximum possible 36 pts.

Cars that don't carry any safety equipment will get zero points in this category.

Cars equipped with only ABS:

Maruti Ritz 1.3 Diesel
Maruti Swift 1.3 Diesel

Cars equipped with dual airbags & ABS:

Chevrolet Beat 1.2 Petrol
Fiat Punto 1.4 Petrol
Fiat Punto 1.3 Diesel
Ford Figo 1.2 Petrol
Ford Figo `1.4 Diesel
Honda Jazz 1.2 Petrol
Hyundai i10 1.2 Petrol
Maruti Ritz 1.2 Petrol
Maruti Swift 1.2 Petrol
Skoda Fabia 1.4 Diesel
Skoda Fabia 1.2 Petrol
Tata Vista 1.2 Petrol
Tata Vista 1.3 Diesel
VW Polo 1.2 Petrol

Cars equipped with dual airbags, ABS & side airbags:

Hyundai i20 1.2 Petrol
Hyundai i20 1.4 Diesel

Cars that offer no safety equipment:

Chevrolet Spark 1.0 Petrol
Chevrolet U-VA 1.2 Petrol
Fiat Punto 1.2 Petrol
Fiat Palio 1.1 Petrol
Fiat Palio 1.6 Petrol
Fiat Palio 1.3 Diesel
Hyundai i10 1.1 Petrol
Hyundai Getz 1.1 Petrol
Hyundai Getz 1.3 Petrol
Hyundai Santro 1.1 Petrol
Maruti 800 0.8 Petrol
Maruti Alto 0.8 Petrol
Maruti A-Star 1.0 Petrol
Maruti Estilo 1.0 Petrol
Maruti WagonR 1.1 Petrol
Tata Nano 0.6 Petrol
Tata Indica 1.2 Petrol
Tata Indica 1.4 Diesel



Ranking of small cars that offer the best blend of performance, driveability, low running costs, low price & safety:

1) Hyundai i20 1.4 Diesel ------------ 128 pts
2) Maruti Swift 1.3 Diesel ----------- 121 pts
3) Maruti Ritz 1.3 Diesel ------------- 118 pts
4) Ford Figo `1.4 Diesel ------------- 118 pts
5) Tata Vista 1.3 Diesel -------------- 117 pts
6) Skoda Fabia 1.4 Diesel ------------- 113 pts
7) Maruti Swift 1.2 Petrol ------------ 110 pts
8) Honda Jazz 1.2 Petrol ------------- 109 pts
9) Maruti Ritz 1.2 Petrol ------------- 109 pts
10) Hyundai Santro 1.1 Petrol -------- 105 pts
11) Fiat Punto 1.3 Diesel ------------- 104 pts
12) Fiat Palio 1.3 Diesel -------------- 100 pts
13) Chevrolet Beat 1.2 Petrol --------- 99 pts
14) Hyundai i10 1.2 Petrol ------------- 98 pts
15) Maruti A-Star 1.0 Petrol ----------- 97 pts
16) Fiat Palio 1.6 Petrol --------------- 92 pts
17) Hyundai i20 1.2 Petrol ------------- 90 pts
18) Hyundai i10 1.1 Petrol ------------- 90 pts
19) Maruti Estilo 1.0 Petrol ------------ 84 pts
20) Chevrolet Spark 1.0 Petrol --------- 84 pts
21) Ford Figo 1.2 Petrol ---------------- 82 pts
22) Hyundai Getz 1.3 Petrol ------------ 81 pts
23) Skoda Fabia 1.2 Petrol ------------- 78 pts
24) Fiat Punto 1.4 Petrol -------------- 78 pts
25) Maruti Alto 0.8 Petrol -------------- 76 pts
26) Maruti WagonR 1.1 Petrol ---------- 75 pts
27) Tata Vista 1.2 Petrol -------------- 71 pts
28) Maruti 800 0.8 Petrol -------------- 71 pts
29) VW Polo 1.2 Petrol ---------------- 70 pts
30) Tata Indica 1.4 Diesel -------------- 67 pts
31) Tata Nano 0.6 Petrol --------------- 65 pts
32) Tata Indica 1.2 Petrol ------------- 63 pts
33) Chevrolet U-VA 1.2 Petrol ---------- 52 pts
34) Hyundai Getz 1.1 Petrol ------------ 46 pts
35) Fiat Punto 1.2 Petrol -------------- 45 pts
36) Fiat Palio 1.1 Petrol ---------------- 42 pts

Analysis:

- What kind of warped logic is Maruti working on? Why no airbags on Swift & Ritz diesel?

- Note the number of cars that offer dual airbags as standard in the top end versions. This wasn't the case one or two years back. Sign of changing times?

- Ford Figo 1.4 diesel makes an entry into the top 5. Looks like Ford is quite serious about getting things right.

- Hyundai i20 1.2 petrol & diesel have 6 airbags. If you don't like i20 and still want 6 airbags, you will then have to look at Skoda Laura L&K for which you will have to shell out Rs. 20 lacs. VW Jetta too has 6 airbags I think.

Last edited by smartcat : 5th May 2010 at 01:28.
smartcat is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2010, 10:36   #55
Senior - BHPian
 
Vik0728's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,739
Thanked: 2,152 Times
Default

hey smartcat I am almost unable to contend my excitement looking at the final report!!

As you probably know, I own a '07 Santro XIng. Guess What, though its like a decade old design and model, it still got enough Charecter and Charisma to beat the likes of Punto, Figo and Polo!!

AAAAAAASOME !!!!

What takes the Cake is that I had decided to pick up the I20 a month back and it ranks First!!

ALL CREDIT TO YOU BRO FOR SUCH INTENSE RESEARCH AND ANALYSIS !!!
Vik0728 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2010, 10:39   #56
BHPian
 
mohandas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 266
Thanked: 27 Times
Default

samrtcat:
I would take couple of points out from the ford figo. Why ?
The reason is the incomplete airbag feature. There is no turn-off button to disengage the airbag when a kid is sitting in the co-passenger side. To me, this is the height of cost cutting and forced me to dump this car from my list. Giving it to total 27 points straight is a perfect injustice and your research may lose the credibility of being unbiased. Just my 2c.
mohandas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2010, 10:56   #57
Senior - BHPian
 
govigov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Cochin!!!!!
Posts: 1,314
Thanked: 431 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post


Cars that offer no safety equipment:
.
.
.
Maruti A-Star 1.0 Petrol
.
.
.


i thought zxi had abs and airbags !!!!!!
govigov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2010, 11:08   #58
BHPian
 
mtnrajdeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 648
Thanked: 88 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by govigov View Post
[/left]

i thought zxi had abs and airbags !!!!!!
I can confirm that it does . So does the Wagon-R, though it is optional in the 1.1. I think the new Wagon-R lauched last month has only ABS as an option.

Last edited by mtnrajdeep : 5th May 2010 at 11:11.
mtnrajdeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2010, 11:19   #59
Distinguished - BHPian
 
smartcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,977
Thanked: 11,930 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vik0728 View Post
As you probably know, I own a '07 Santro XIng. Guess What, though its like a decade old design and model, it still got enough Charecter and Charisma to beat the likes of Punto, Figo and Polo!!
It has a good engine & a great price - but it won't be able match the features & space of Punto, Figo & Polo. Expect all the old gen models like Estilo, Santro, Chevrolet UVA, Indica etc to go further down the ladder when we compare the equipment list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mohandas View Post
samrtcat:
I would take couple of points out from the ford figo. Why ?
The reason is the incomplete airbag feature. There is no turn-off button to disengage the airbag when a kid is sitting in the co-passenger side. To me, this is the height of cost cutting and forced me to dump this car from my list. Giving it to total 27 points straight is a perfect injustice and your research may lose the credibility of being unbiased. Just my 2c.
Aren't kids supposed to be in the rear, on a child seat? I wouldn't consider Figo not having airbag switch off button as a major safety flaw, but yes, it it is an inconvenience - because, as I said, the rear seat is always there.

But I will be considering 'airbag switch off button' under the equipment/ feature list - thanks for mentioning this.

Actually, the "safety" points system can be expanded to include -

- dual stage airbags
- collapsible steering
- side impact beams
- Child locks
- ISOFIX mounting points (for child seats, Fabia has this)
- collapsible pedals
- Airbag ON/OFF button
- Electronic Brake Force distribution (Punto has EBD for example)

But I will keep all that for my "2011 Small Car Buyer's Guide"
smartcat is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2010, 11:49   #60
Distinguished - BHPian
 
smartcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,977
Thanked: 11,930 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by govigov View Post
i thought zxi had abs and airbags !!!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnrajdeep View Post
I can confirm that it does . So does the Wagon-R, though it is optional in the 1.1. I think the new Wagon-R lauched last month has only ABS as an option.
I checked the A-star website - you are right. ZXi has ABS with EBD & Airbags. Regarding Wagon R, we are using the stats from the previous generation Wagon R (not the latest one).

Let me rework the safety points system after checking the websites of each car - this might take some time though. Ignore the current ranking for now. Along with passive safety features like airbags & ABS, I will also be considering 100 kmph to zero Kmph braking distance in metres (Top Gear magazine has this data I think).

@Mohandas - I will check the availability of Airbag ON/OFF feature on each car too, but how important is this to you and other customers?

Any other 'safety' feature to be considered?

Last edited by smartcat : 5th May 2010 at 11:58.
smartcat is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Kanha Ready Reckoner- Read before planning Kanha trip kunalsb Travelogues 15 4th May 2015 12:40
Diesel Hatchback Ready Reckoner (Price, Specs, Features etc.) jessie007 The Indian Car Scene 16 27th February 2013 12:18
Prospective Car buyer's search- Bought a car that was not in contention at all! himanshugoswami Sedans 38 9th April 2009 16:58
Cars in India-a buyer's guide vnabhi What Car? 6 28th June 2008 22:57
A true dud according to BSM 2006 car buyer's guide Samurai The Indian Car Scene 71 11th January 2006 22:45


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 21:29.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks