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Old 20th July 2010, 17:13   #286
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Though I have not driven the Altis and am not a blind fan of Toyota either, I m sure that the way in which those 84 horses are delivered will mean a lot to the customer. If the car, owing to its 7 speeder has good city drivability with the other features like reliability, quality, after sales, and good resale value, it
should sell in decent numbers is what I feel.
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Old 20th July 2010, 17:16   #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuhrer View Post
Lets get some Maths into your claim
CC BHP TORQUE SIZE LxWxH PRICE(ex)
Altis 1.4L 85 205 4540x1760x1480 12-15
Dzire 1248 75 190 4160x1690x1530 7,07
Linea 1248 93 209 4560x1730x1487 8,78
Manza 1248 90 200 4413x1703x1550 6,97
Fiesta 1399 68 160 4282x1689x1468 8,38

I really dont understand how you call it a Lesser Engine, everything except the linea looks under powered compared to Altis engine. In that case is anyone ready to go for a TATA-FIAT combo over toyota to save about 5 Lakhs? Overall size Altis looks bigger than other car being the widest of all. Being an Indian Bigger the Better.

I have driven both the Altis and the Civic on very short sprints both were dull to drive. Inspite of all these Altis was a best seller in the segment so with a diesel engine, my expectation is, it will surely out sell other cars.

When it comes to refinement i believe Toyota has done a better job. This class as such is for Luxury and Brand Image more than enthusiasm so toyota has everything it needs to rule the market. I accept the fact that its less powerful compared to Laura/cruze but the comfort offered by the altis and the after sales service offered by Toyota makes it a more desirable car over the others.

Declaimer : All the facts about linea/manza/dzire/fiesta where sources from Carwale
But you have not included the upcoming Vento which has 1.6L, 105bhp and 250nm torque and in all probability atleast 2Lakh cheaper sporting a VW badge!
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Old 20th July 2010, 17:28   #288
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Originally Posted by ranc View Post
Why dont you add Verna and Vento to the list both are 105 bhp and both are or will be sub 10 lakhs.

How abt 150 bhp cruze which starts from 12 lakhs and is equally big. that looks vfm now
Verna 4300x1695x1490 is also a smaller car personally i dont feel the corolla and the verna belong to the same class.Its a bit cramped and very bouncy. when it comes to the engine its a stonker without doubt.

Cruze though its equally a bigger car in dimensions reviews report cramped interior space and Turbo Lags. I expect toyota to give a car without turbo lag even though its not very powerful but not sure about it as its a small engine. I'm sure our Mods would have got the hands on it by now lets wait for the review.

@n.devdath : obsolutely. It matters a lot on how the power is delivered. Like another member pointed out earlier in this thread though the cruze has more bhp's the tourbo lag make it unusable in city limits.

Last edited by fuhrer : 20th July 2010 at 17:36. Reason: want to add another comment
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Old 20th July 2010, 17:56   #289
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the corolla comptes with cruze, elantra, civic, laura and jetta, not the vento and verna. they have a model called vios for that.
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Old 20th July 2010, 18:16   #290
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Originally Posted by msd63 View Post
But you have not included the upcoming Vento which has 1.6L, 105bhp and 250nm torque and in all probability atleast 2Lakh cheaper sporting a VW badge!
in my opinion as sid said none of the above cars belong to the Corolla Class.No matter how good they are. Just cause JJames claimed these car cost half as much as the Altis and have more power wanna make some facts clear so brought up the comparison chart.
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Old 20th July 2010, 18:39   #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuhrer View Post
.

Cruze though its equally a bigger car in dimensions reviews report cramped interior space and Turbo Lags.

Like another member pointed out earlier in this thread though the cruze has more bhp's the tourbo lag make it unusable in city limits.
That turbo lag problem has been taken care of. My friend bought a Cruze last week and I drove it yesterday. Dealer told us (and we could ourselves feel while driving) that Cruzes sold from May onwards have had the turbo lag problem rectified.

It is for sure a contendor against the Altis Diesel if Toyota price it at 13L+.
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Old 20th July 2010, 19:22   #292
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@cesc with the turbo lag gone, the cruze becomes a good value for money car. Ofcourse a good contender however people how wanna buy a corolla will still buy a corolla and people who are performance cautious will not consider corolla as an option. Corolla is basically a chauffeur driven car, whereas Cruze is for enthusiasts.
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Old 20th July 2010, 19:32   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuhrer View Post
@cesc with the turbo lag gone, the cruze becomes a good value for money car. Ofcourse a good contender however people how wanna buy a corolla will still buy a corolla and people who are performance cautious will not consider corolla as an option. Corolla is basically a chauffeur driven car, whereas Cruze is for enthusiasts.
Absolutely agree. Those two are geared towards different kind of customers. I would even go to the extent of saying that they are as different as chalk and cheese for a buyer who has clear cut priorities. What I meant by my comment is that for a buyer with an open mind and general preferences Cruze will be right up there in terms of contention.
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Old 20th July 2010, 21:15   #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuhrer View Post
in my opinion as sid said none of the above cars belong to the Corolla Class.No matter how good they are. Just cause JJames claimed these car cost half as much as the Altis and have more power wanna make some facts clear so brought up the comparison chart.
The point is however good a body is, it should also have a good heart(engine). A good body with a weak heart is not of much use.
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Old 20th July 2010, 22:22   #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cesc View Post
That turbo lag problem has been taken care of. My friend bought a Cruze last week and I drove it yesterday. Dealer told us (and we could ourselves feel while driving) that Cruzes sold from May onwards have had the turbo lag problem rectified.
Have you driven old and new Cruze side by side. Dealers are known to spin yarn wherever necessary.
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Old 20th July 2010, 22:31   #296
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I still do not understand the fact of classfying cars as chauffeur driven and not chauffeur driven.

Even we have a driver at home before my dad retired. Of course it was the driver who drove most time in the car, but on weekend it was just me who drove the car, and of course I would then wish the power was good enough.

No matter the Corrolla might be chauffeur driven but even then when you go on long drives or the weekend drives you will feel the lack of power and repent for it. Of course I do agree it offers luxury for the price but chauffeur driven is no escapist route. If you say hotel car may be I'd agree..
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Old 20th July 2010, 23:38   #297
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How is the torque speed curve for the car?
Can it maintain speeds like 80-100 at 2000 RPM or will need higher RPN?
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Old 20th July 2010, 23:53   #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xingamazon View Post
I still do not understand the fact of classfying cars as chauffeur driven and not chauffeur driven.
Let me try to explain it to you. I live in Besant Nagar and my office is in Thoraipakkam. Six days a week My driver drives me to and from my office and through out the day if I have to go to client meetings. I don't care if my driver can do 0-60 in 7.5 seconds. Besides people who have driven this road in peak hour know that the Cruze or Laura is pretty much as fast as the MTC bus that you are stuck behind. I want to be able to sit comfortably at the back without feeling cramped. This is the difference between self driven and chauffer driven. On Sundays, when my driver is off, I drive the car myself and yes on Sundays I would prefer a Cruze or Laura. However, I have to pick a car based on majority of my usage and back seat space comfort is important for me. I feel this will be the same for many executive cars/hotel taxis that are chauffered. So, to put it simply the car does matter, if you spend most of the time in drivers seat or in the back seat. I hope this is clear now.

From your posts on this thread, it is pretty clear that the 1.4 liter engine has upset you a lot and you have written off the car even before launch. All, I am saying is that Toyota will have the last laugh on this one while some detractors sulk at the sales numbers.

Last edited by 4x4addict : 20th July 2010 at 23:58.
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Old 21st July 2010, 11:10   #299
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Any details about the launch...Especially the make or break pricing is the final detail that remains..as also awaited a mod's or sid's test ride of this car...
Surprising no activity on this thread on D-day!!
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Old 21st July 2010, 11:15   #300
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What worries me is how stressed the engine is going to be. A major factor for reliability is how much stress the engine has to handle even for conservative driving. The Altis P weights 1200 KG (Max Kerb Weight) and assuming the Diesel will weight 100K more it is going to be 1300 KG and this 1.4 L engine will only stress the car even more no matter how tall (sacrificing FE) or short (sacrificing Top Speed) the gearing is. I would not have been worried if they had used the Innova's engine. Even if the had tuned it down a bit it for higher FE it would still be the epitome of reliability like all other Toyotas.
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