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Old 22nd July 2010, 09:10   #361
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Originally Posted by PCS View Post
Octavia was launched with a 90bhp engine, and it was a hit by Skoda's standards.
The Octavia was launched a whopping 7 years back, and still did the 0 - 100 in 13.xx seconds. Whatever way we look at it, the Altis diesel is slow. I mean, slow not only by the segment standards (C+ sedan costing over 10 lakhs), but even a segment below (C segment sedans costing 7 - 8 lakhs). The Cruze & Laura, cars that the Altis diesel competes with, leave the Toyota for dead. Heck, even some 5 lakh rupee hatchbacks are better performers.

Not that it would matter to the target market though , the Altis diesel is the perfect commuter car from the segment. But its important to call a spade a spade.
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Old 22nd July 2010, 09:28   #362
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Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves View Post
Toyota is at it again. Shortchanging the Indian customer.
First the ugly looking breadbox on wheels - Qualis.
Then the Fortuner with drum brakes at the rear.
Now the Altis with a small capacity diesel mill that should actually find itself in a Yaris or Echo.
Well, we deserve it!!
Like you said while upgrading from a SUMO to QUALIS, i was very much concerned about the horrible looks of the car i used to call it MILK DELIVERY vehicle i used to ask my friends to stay away from it for its bouncy suspension. But after using the car for while then travelling in Boleros and scarpio(first generation) i changed my mind and fall in love for it.

At times i feel Toyota is taking customers for granted cause it has formed a market name.

I was hugely disappointed when a 20L+ car from Toyota doesnt have a proper brakes, when compared with the Qualis even Innova is not good in the brakes department(both my cars are non-abs). If i have to rate the brakes of the Innova i will say its weak.Back in 2005 abs came only with a six seater option.So with the third row folded up for luggages i felt its too huge for four seater,We have more members in the family thats why we are still retaining the qualis. sorry

However i dont think fortuner having a rear drum brake is a design flaw. Cause drum brakes have better performance for Hand brakes or Emergency brakes. And in an off-roader you may need it. This is why in some high spec SUVs they have both drum and disc brakes at the rear Discs for regular braking and Drum for E-Brake
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Old 22nd July 2010, 09:33   #363
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Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Toyota have come up with very good pricing. The Altis Diesel is sure to get the sales charts on Fire. The pricing is even lower than the competitively priced Cruze.

But Both Laura and Cruze are still better cars to drive, not only because they have a huge power advantage but they also have much better Ride and Handling setup. The Corolla was never a car for the enthusiasts, now the Altis diesel with the much weaker engine than the competition still won't please them.

Personally i would never buy this car, even if i was in market to buy a diesel car in this price bracket.

EDIT: I Just read the first drive report by ACI posted here. According to them 0-100kph comes in 15secs, the in gear acceleration times are even worse at 20-80 in 3rd: 14.85s and 40-100 in 4th: 20.53s, the turbo lag is told to be severe too.

Why we should call this good pricing?

The corolla diesel is still close to 90000+ expensive than Corolla petrol. This is the normal price difference between petrol and diesel in other cars as well. and Toyota is providing an underpowered diesel at this price as well. I am not sure why even chauffeur driven customers should buy it.
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Old 22nd July 2010, 09:47   #364
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Prices to start from 10.35 to 13.75.
Said it's loaded with goodies and safety features.
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Old 22nd July 2010, 10:02   #365
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Originally Posted by MAS View Post
Wow!!! Altis D has been launced at a price betweed 10.95 Lakhs to 13.75 Lakhs. Apart from being diesel, it comes equipped with a six-speed transmission system and delivers 88.4 PS with a mileage of 21.43 kmpl. Even taking 25% off on the mileage, it could still milk out 15-16 kmpl, which is enormous.

Way to go Toyota . This is going to smoke competition.
Smoke with respect to sales maybe coz of brand name but on road it gonna get smoked even by a 4lac car.

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Originally Posted by shuvc View Post
Haven't read through the thread fully. But the Diesel specs, prices etc are up in the Toyota site.

Toyota Corolla Altis Diesel
Toyota - Corolla Altis
Toyota - Pricelist

Looks like the variants are HJ, HG and HL? If so,

Kolkata prices:
HJ 11,06,000
HG 12,83,500
HL 13,83,500

The Cruze LTZ Manual costs 13.13 Ex-show in Kolkata. The Altis top end is more expensive. It's priced almost at par with the Cruze AT (13.95). Don't think this translates to fab pricing.

But yes, it will still sell. Forget the specs. For most people all that will matter is that it is a Toyota Corolla and a Diesel.
It is, Honda is gonna be worried more now I guess.

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Originally Posted by akj53 View Post
I have an Altis and I think that 'peace of mind and comfort' are it's biggest advantages. I am sure over 95% customers also look for these factors plus the almost mandatory milage factor, which Toyota has added with the diesel. I fully agree with the turbo lag concern, but high milage customers like companies, taxi operators and individual customers will find it irresistible. Sadly performance enthusiasts form a small minority in India so high performance cars will remain a rarity.
That's why they are selling.

I wont like a hatch smoke my 12lac car; well maybe they can on city but not everywhere!
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Old 22nd July 2010, 12:51   #366
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Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
Smoke with respect to sales maybe coz of brand name but on road it gonna get smoked even by a 4lac car.



I wont like a hatch smoke my 12lac car; well maybe they can on city but not everywhere!
+100 to that JK Das . I respective of the brand value, irrespective of the engine size and mileage, irrespective of the engine,space and features in the car, even if the owner does not care about the performance of the car, It would still be a very humbling experience for a 12L car getting left behind by the puntos, swifts and the likes
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Old 22nd July 2010, 13:21   #367
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Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
Smoke with respect to sales maybe coz of brand name but on road it gonna get smoked even by a 4lac car.

I wont like a hatch smoke my 12lac car; well maybe they can on city but not everywhere!
Spot on! But to the owner driven class.. How many 12L cars are actually owner driven? When I am chauffer driven, I am happy to just stick to my gadgets and never bother to look out the window.

Last edited by Equus : 22nd July 2010 at 13:24.
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Old 22nd July 2010, 13:26   #368
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Well, this engine will provide peace of mind for the owners b'cos the chauffers cannot gun it OTR... lol

Jokes apart, its economies of scale... Toyota is the Lean and supply chain leader, this 1.4L diesel engine will also find its way into Etios saloon and hatch. Now, can they really detune (further?) to command a premium on Altis?
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Old 22nd July 2010, 14:13   #369
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Default A Damn Good Reason to buy an underpowered car

[quote=AirWind;1992183]Well, this engine will provide peace of mind for the owners b'cos the chauffers cannot gun it OTR... lol


Every time I go around in a chauffeur driven verna or optra and the driver guns for that narrow gap between the vehicle we are overtaking and the one rushing towards us, I pray for an underpowered car that will stop him from such risks.

Looks like Altis will finally get my vote :-)
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Old 22nd July 2010, 14:40   #370
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[quote=psathya;1992253]
Quote:
Originally Posted by AirWind View Post
Well, this engine will provide peace of mind for the owners b'cos the chauffers cannot gun it OTR... lol


Every time I go around in a chauffeur driven verna or optra and the driver guns for that narrow gap between the vehicle we are overtaking and the one rushing towards us, I pray for an underpowered car that will stop him from such risks.

Looks like Altis will finally get my vote :-)
Well actually power tends to be a safety feature, more the power the sooner one gets out of harms way. The driver will continue to make risky overtaking moves, and the risk will only increase with reduced power. If a boss cannot make a driver avoid such moves one should hardly expect that reduced power will discourage him.

This is a point that people have actually not been talking about but if a heavy car has reduced acceleration due to insufficent power (like in the case of the Altis diesel) then all the other safety features may actually need to be used - like airbags, etc, and features like abs may be useless (lack of speed) - all due to the absence of the primary safety feature -power.

We see signs not the road "speed thrills but kills" but then power need not be equated with outright speed, it is also the most required ingredient in making a safe overtaking move. Sadly the Altis diesel seems to be missing this one.
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Old 22nd July 2010, 14:48   #371
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Not that it would matter to the target market though , the Altis diesel is the perfect commuter car from the segment. But its important to call a spade a spade.
And it is sad. It SHOULD matter to the consumer. Skoda A$$ problems can keep a prospective customer away but how do you strike out Cruze? The car is gorgeous looking and comes with a stonking diesel engine, even the equipment list is generous compared to the Corolla.
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Old 22nd July 2010, 14:51   #372
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In the context of Altis diesel being chauffeur driver, and thus helps to have an underpowered car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AirWind View Post
chauffers cannot gun it OTR
Quote:
Originally Posted by psathya View Post
I pray for an underpowered car that will stop him from such risks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Equus View Post
When I am chauffer driven, I am happy to just stick to my gadgets and never bother to look out the window.
The chauffeur would still try all those antics in the Altis diesel. There is nothing in the car preventing him from doing that.

IMO, all these cannot be used to justify an underpowered car.

Will such a chauffeur take kindly to a Swift overtaking him?
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Old 22nd July 2010, 15:42   #373
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Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
Smoke with respect to sales maybe coz of brand name but on road it gonna get smoked even by a 4lac car.
In my opinion, there is a good percentage of people who don't care if their car smokes or gets smoked. This car is definitely not for a performance enthusiast. The Pajero 2.8 with it's wheezy 115 bhp powerplant is very underpowered by today's standards will get smoked by a Safari 2.2 VVTI or a Scorpio mhawk. Why do so many people buy the Pajero 2.8?
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Old 22nd July 2010, 16:02   #374
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Default Wish it looked a bit better!

I always wondered why designers put in the unnecessary curves and accents into designs. VW may look boring for some, but it doesnt look incomplete or hotch-potch.

I was looking at the Altis pictures and asked what I really hated about the looks of this car. Just a few lines that actually looks like pinning the car on the sides. And an odd shaped headlamp. Just tweaked them a bit and the car looks more planted. What do you all think?

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Is there a "wish it were so" thread here? Couldnt find any. So posting here. Mods: please move it if necessary. Thanks!
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Old 22nd July 2010, 16:25   #375
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Yes, the bonnet shutline change makes a big difference to the overall styling.
The headlights to a lesser extent though, the designers tried to make a mini=camry but kinda wronged somewhere. The panel gaps in the nose,headlights the culprit.
Small engine maybe and customers are gonna be disappointed,but cant argue he fact that it's going to be a hot selling cake.
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