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Old 22nd July 2010, 17:48   #376
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just visited dobro toyota in hyderabad the base model is for 13+ and the top model is for 16.55 on road.... quite expensive for a 1.4l car !
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Old 22nd July 2010, 17:50   #377
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I am sick and tired of this "peace of mind" slogan used by some while referring to Toyota/Honda. Such superlatives/adjectives/poetic expressions are meaningless in todays world when all cars are polarising towards MORE OR LESS same levels of fit/finish/performance and longevity. Are we to assume that non-Toyota car owners have no peace of mind. They spend sleepless nights and often walk in sleep muttering strange nothings. Please spare us this bull****.

Coming to Altis, it IS underpowered and it may not cut much ice with some buyers who are used to scorching modern diesels. And yes, as has rightly been said it would be disgusting to watch a 12-13 lakh rupee car being smoked by some 5-6 lakh rupee hatches.
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Old 22nd July 2010, 18:08   #378
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Adil Jal Darukhanawala has posted a drive test of Diesel Altis on Economic Times. I quote below a paragraph from that.

"However, it is the driving experience which is the proverbial cherry on the Corolla cake for the cost conscious. This Corolla can be driven at 100km/h in the top cog with the needle hovering just below the 2000rpm mark on the rev counter and with the top three cogs in the six-speed 'box being overdrive ratios, the engine is not just flexible enough to doodle through town but is also one of the best there is when it comes to stretching that litre of diesel. In our in-town tests on a brand new car with less than 45km on the odometer when we got it, we got average fuel efficiency of 14.4kmpl but on our highway run from Pune to Satara and back (which includes three hill sections), the Corolla had us dumbstruck when she averaged 24.3kmpl! If one needs a better way to describe the Corolla Diesel's operating efficiency then how does Pune to Mumbai in seven litres of diesel sound to you? And with a 16.8kmpl overall fuel efficiency, given its 50 litre fuel tank one is looking at a stupendous 840 km operating range. Not bad for what is actually a good family car for five."

The full report can be read on

Drive Test: New Corolla Altis Diesel-Automobiles-Auto-News By Industry-News-The Economic Times

Now 14 kmpl in town and 24 kmpl on highway for such a big car is really good.

I fully agree that this will be a slow coach and many users will not like a 5 lac Swift overtaking it, but Toyota seems to have made an "economical" car and not a "performance" car. But the demand for performance cars is growing in India so manufacturers will slowly start providing such cars. Cruze and the new Punto have made a start already.
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Old 22nd July 2010, 18:22   #379
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The economics times review does not mention anything about Turbo Lag.
Also mentions that the vehicle starts of pretty smooth.
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Old 22nd July 2010, 19:57   #380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shankaranand View Post
Why we should call this good pricing?

The corolla diesel is still close to 90000+ expensive than Corolla petrol. This is the normal price difference between petrol and diesel in other cars as well. and Toyota is providing an underpowered diesel at this price as well. I am not sure why even chauffeur driven customers should buy it.
Quit agree with you. Also, that 90K to 100K premium pricing benchmark is when Engine capacities are similar, like Swift Petrol/Diesel (Both 1.3 L engine) & Ritz Petrol/Diesel(1.2 and 1.3 L engines).

But, when it is downgrade from 1.8L to 1.4 L; i would not give out that kind of price premium.

Also with the much lower performance compared to Petrol one, I would not think of paying more than 70-75K.

Even with that, i wouldn't want much smaller cars like Figos & beat, speeding past my car. Guess some of the modern Indian hatches have 0-100 in under 12-13 seconds.. Moreso, the biggest competition for altis "Cruze" is under 9 seconds. Don't know why a customer would want to settle for this. Era for "Big" in indian market is still not over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
I am sick and tired of this "peace of mind" slogan used by some while referring to Toyota/Honda. Such superlatives/adjectives/poetic expressions are meaningless in todays world when all cars are polarising towards MORE OR LESS same levels of fit/finish/performance and longevity. Are we to assume that non-Toyota car owners have no peace of mind. They spend sleepless nights and often walk in sleep muttering strange nothings. Please spare us this bull****.
+1 to that. Absolutely, this "peace of mind" slogan is so over rated in today's world. Look at US market, where Hyundai's and Kia's have left behind (in growth terms) their much fancied rivals who claim to have "Better Reliability" or "Fancy designs".

Even the yesteryear's worst cars (Read Kias in US and Tata in India) have so much gone ahead in quality terms, there is hardly any perceptible gap between the top 5-7 players in the indian/world market.

Last edited by anu21v : 22nd July 2010 at 20:05.
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Old 22nd July 2010, 20:03   #381
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Guys , Just stop talking about the car being under powered and has hefty premium

Its just that lower segment has reached to 110-120 PS, doesnt mean that altis with 90 is underpowered.

and Indian cars do have a hefty premium for diesels , no matter whether its 1.4 L or 0.8 L.

In that case let me give you a example

Fortuner = 20+ lakhs = 3.0 L Engine
Cayenne = 60+ lakhs = 3.0 L Engine

THEN IN SUCH CASE EVEN PORSCHE ALSO TRYING TO FOOL CUSTOMERS ????

Dont you think so

I think this car is reasonably adequate. Agree its not a Diesel Rocket.Whats the use having a Diesel Rocket ????
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Old 22nd July 2010, 20:15   #382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCS View Post
Guys , Just stop talking about the car being under powered and has hefty premium

Its just that lower segment has reached to 110-120 PS, doesnt mean that altis with 90 is underpowered.

and Indian cars do have a hefty premium for diesels , no matter whether its 1.4 L or 0.8 L.

In that case let me give you a example

Fortuner = 20+ lakhs = 3.0 L Engine
Cayenne = 60+ lakhs = 3.0 L Engine

THEN IN SUCH CASE EVEN PORSCHE ALSO TRYING TO FOOL CUSTOMERS ????

Dont you think so

I think this car is reasonably adequate. Agree its not a Diesel Rocket.Whats the use having a Diesel Rocket ????
Don't know why, but reasonably adequate philosophy do not seems to work in the C/D segment. Thats for Hatch segment.

Also thankfully you did not compare this with Jaguar XF which also comes with 3.0L capacity engines (AJ30/AJV6D).
The ultra super premium is a different and purely niche segment. I don't think Toyota is planning to go that way.

Last edited by anu21v : 22nd July 2010 at 20:19.
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Old 23rd July 2010, 00:45   #383
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I guess this argument between being underpowered to mileage will go on and on.

Did I miss the Tbhp Test report? SID/GTO - Eagerly waiting for your comments.

Will try to test drive the car over the weekend and would post my comments too.
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Old 23rd July 2010, 01:34   #384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psathya View Post

Well actually power tends to be a safety feature, more the power the sooner one gets out of harms way.
very well said thats why Indica and Tevera Taxi drivers drive like insane, cause they really struggle a lot to get to the speed and they dont want to slow down for any reasons coz they have to do it all over again. This has happened to me to when i drive my friend's 1.6s i drive calmly as whenever i need to overtake the car suplies sufficient power and i calm down once i'm done with the overtake, but when drive my getz at time i get mad on the accelerator when it doesnt give me the power when i need it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DicKy View Post

Yes, the bonnet shutline change makes a big difference to the overall styling.
The headlights to a lesser extent though, the designers tried to make a mini=camry but kinda wronged somewhere. The panel gaps in the nose,headlights the culprit.
Small engine maybe and customers are gonna be disappointed,but cant argue he fact that it's going to be a hot selling cake.
Thats may be because if they done it this way the logo might look projecting from side angle(just an assumption)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
I am sick and tired of this "peace of mind" slogan used by some while referring to Toyota/Honda. Such superlatives/adjectives/poetic expressions are meaningless in todays world when all cars are polarising towards MORE OR LESS same levels of fit/finish/performance and longevity. Are we to assume that non-Toyota car owners have no peace of mind. They spend sleepless nights and often walk in sleep muttering strange nothings. Please spare us this bull****.

Coming to Altis, it IS underpowered and it may not cut much ice with some buyers who are used to scorching modern diesels. And yes, as has rightly been said it would be disgusting to watch a 12-13 lakh rupee car being smoked by some 5-6 lakh rupee hatches.
Firstly please do not use foul language.
Calling a Toyota car "peace of mind" is never overrated go to any SKODA, GM, HYUNDAI ,TATA/FIAT, MAHINDRA even MARUTI car owner and ask them their experience with After Sales Service, car's condition after 1L kms or 5yrs, service bills and compare it with a Toyota car owners review you will know the difference.

I have done 1.8L kms on my qualis and 55k kms in my Innova i use these cars for 5k kms get it serviced and continue to use them. thats it, its so simple and the average service cost for innova is 4k almost same for the qualis i had few extra expenses on the qualis but keep in mind its 1.8L kms and almost 10yrs old so its nothing

but a skoda and gm car owners spend Heavy amounts on services and YES they do have sleepless nights.

Hyundai is not cheap in service compared to toyota nor it had the quality of toyota.

i have had massive head aches with mahindra's service as well.

YES this car is underpowered BUT IT IS A PEACE OF MIND IN ALL OTHER ASPECTS
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Old 23rd July 2010, 01:43   #385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Equus View Post
Spot on! But to the owner driven class.. How many 12L cars are actually owner driven? When I am chauffer driven, I am happy to just stick to my gadgets and never bother to look out the window.
Exactly when i'm chauffeured, I make sure my drive cruses very gently should feel relaxed as if i'm at home. so even if a nano overtakes me i dont care and noone will ever know that the car is really incapable to beat much cheaper cars until the driver tries and fails. just cruse around as if you are not bothered to race and maintain your dignity

however if i get on the driving position i'll end up cursing it than crusing it
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Old 23rd July 2010, 01:49   #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCS View Post
Guys , Just stop talking about the car being under powered and has hefty premium

Its just that lower segment has reached to 110-120 PS, doesnt mean that altis with 90 is underpowered.

and Indian cars do have a hefty premium for diesels , no matter whether its 1.4 L or 0.8 L.

In that case let me give you a example

Fortuner = 20+ lakhs = 3.0 L Engine
Cayenne = 60+ lakhs = 3.0 L Engine

THEN IN SUCH CASE EVEN PORSCHE ALSO TRYING TO FOOL CUSTOMERS ????

Dont you think so

I think this car is reasonably adequate. Agree its not a Diesel Rocket.Whats the use having a Diesel Rocket ????
Drive both of them and find out, one is a generations old sports car manufacturer (Porsche) and the other a very successful 4x4 and regular car manufacturer.

The handling/engineering and electronics in the Porsche are German engineered vs the durability and placid handling in a fortuner.

Try taking a corner at 100+ kmph in both and find out, it will be an educative experience.
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Old 23rd July 2010, 01:55   #387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuhrer View Post
but a skoda and gm car owners spend Heavy amounts on services and YES they do have sleepless nights.
Any Toyota made cars which will put people to sleep forever. (Just kidding, nothing personal)

Last edited by grules : 23rd July 2010 at 01:56.
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Old 23rd July 2010, 02:02   #388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuhrer View Post
Firstly please do not use foul language.
Calling a Toyota car "peace of mind" is never overrated go to any SKODA, GM, HYUNDAI ,TATA/FIAT, MAHINDRA even MARUTI car owner and ask them their experience with After Sales Service, car's condition after 1L kms or 5yrs, service bills and compare it with a Toyota car owners review you will know the difference.

I have done 1.8L kms on my qualis and 55k kms in my Innova i use these cars for 5k kms get it serviced and continue to use them. thats it, its so simple and the average service cost for innova is 4k almost same for the qualis i had few extra expenses on the qualis but keep in mind its 1.8L kms and almost 10yrs old so its nothing

but a skoda and gm car owners spend Heavy amounts on services and YES they do have sleepless nights.

Hyundai is not cheap in service compared to toyota nor it had the quality of toyota.

i have had massive head aches with mahindra's service as well.

YES this car is underpowered BUT IT IS A PEACE OF MIND IN ALL OTHER ASPECTS
I ditto the above lines. While fuhrer has been getting his Innova and Qualis serviced at 5000 kms, Altis has a service interval of 10,000 kms or once a year. Normal service costs less than Rs 2000 plus the biggest assurance is that the dealer wont put spurious parts or change my genuine parts in my car. Add to that a 3 years / 1,00,000 kms warranty (which is longest in industry), and bullet proof reliability of Toyota vehicles. All these factors combined certainly provide a "Peace of Mind".

I dont think there are many vehicles which can match the reliability of
Land Cruiser or HiLux which are supposed to be nearly in-destructible.

Toyota may be producing boring vehicles but they must be doing something right as not for nothing they are the largest auto company in the world.
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Old 23rd July 2010, 02:24   #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuhrer View Post
but a skoda and gm car owners spend Heavy amounts on services and YES they do have sleepless nights.

Dear team mate,

Kindly do not paint GM with the same brush as the Skoda.

We have an AVEO 1.6 LT since the last 4 years and have spent a pittance on all regular services. Since GM was one of the first to offer extended warranty in India all the parts replaced (and there are a very few of those) have been replaced by the company free of cost.

GM is so sure of its product quality that we can see it in the form of all inclusive service packages that they offer on almost there entire range. We have several GM vehicles mostly OPTRAS, some sparks a couple of Aveos and Captivas in our extended family/friends circle and there is not one owner in this group who is not satisfied with his/her vehicle and GM service. I am sure that the lack of disparaging posts against GM also endorses our ownership experience.

Therefore GM is as much peace of mind to its vehicle owners as Toyota is to theirs, kindly do not generalise.
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Old 23rd July 2010, 02:42   #390
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For some entertaining information, see how Jeremy Clarkson tries to destroy a 13 years old Hilux, which had clocked 1,90,000 MILES.

Indestructilux 1 - BBC Top Gear

Please post your comments after seeing this.

Incidentally Jeremy also drove Hilux to North pole and back and later I think James drove it to a flaming volcano, the Eyjafjallajökull volcano that brought disruption to air travel earlier this year. Of course, the intrepid Top Gear team couldn’t miss another opportunity, so they sent James May to find out just how close it’s possible to drive to the mouth of an active volcano…

BBC iPlayer - Top Gear: Series 15: Episode 1
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