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Old 23rd July 2010, 08:14   #391
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the same company had a recall of 10 million car, I repeat 10 million cars. probably more than the total number of cars on Indian Road. There is a class action suit pending in US for 37 deaths due to a known problem which was not rectified on time. Let's not go overboard all the manufacturers are the same, if we as consumers are not active and demand what we feel we should get, they will take us for a ride. Toyota, Skoda, GM are no different. Same Toyota on the same day launched in South AFrica with 2.0 Litre engine the same model Altis.

we as indians should get over our infatuation with Japs, in China the second largest auto market, the top 2 car makers are GM and VW.

we need to call spade a spade, it's an underpowered vehicle.
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Old 23rd July 2010, 09:24   #392
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Did I miss the Tbhp Test report? SID/GTO
sidindica's review here.
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Old 23rd July 2010, 12:05   #393
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Dear team mate,

Kindly do not paint GM with the same brush as the Skoda.

We have an AVEO 1.6 LT since the last 4 years and have spent a pittance on all regular services. Since GM was one of the first to offer extended warranty in India all the parts replaced (and there are a very few of those) have been replaced by the company free of cost.

GM is so sure of its product quality that we can see it in the form of all inclusive service packages that they offer on almost there entire range. We have several GM vehicles mostly OPTRAS, some sparks a couple of Aveos and Captivas in our extended family/friends circle and there is not one owner in this group who is not satisfied with his/her vehicle and GM service. I am sure that the lack of disparaging posts against GM also endorses our ownership experience.

Therefore GM is as much peace of mind to its vehicle owners as Toyota is to theirs, kindly do not generalise.
+1 to that. I have the same feeling about the GM cars. I am so much satisfied with my Aveo Uva and the after sales, service support etc; I have started seeing GM in a different light altogether. from my own expereince and experiences of my collegues for both Toyota and GM, the service level is same, One is a bit Fancy (read Toyota) and other is not so much fancy anymore and rather has been more humble of late(GM) but the class remains same.
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Old 23rd July 2010, 12:41   #394
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Is this the combined cycle (80% city, 20% highway), or just the highway mileage? If it's the former, then it's indeed impressive. I hope pulling and cruising power have not been sacrificed in the quest for high FE.

I think it is of 100% highway.
It would be harsh to expect a hatchback to give mileage of above 20 in city conditions.
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Old 23rd July 2010, 13:42   #395
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Same Toyota on the same day launched in South AFrica with 2.0 Litre engine the same model Altis.

we as indians should get over our infatuation with Japs, in China the second largest auto market, the top 2 car makers are GM and VW.

we need to call spade a spade, it's an underpowered vehicle.
Below are the screen-shots from the Toyota South Africa website showing the price and the specs for the 2.0 Liter D-4D. If we convert the South African Rand (ZAR) price to Indian Rupee (INR) it costs 282,000 x 6.32 = Rs 17,82,240 (1 ZAR = 6.32 INR). This will be way expensive for this segment.

Diesel Toyota Altis confirmed! ARAI FE of 21.43 kpl. Update: Now Launched!-picture-2.png

Diesel Toyota Altis confirmed! ARAI FE of 21.43 kpl. Update: Now Launched!-picture-3.png

Diesel Toyota Altis confirmed! ARAI FE of 21.43 kpl. Update: Now Launched!-picture-4.png
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Old 23rd July 2010, 14:52   #396
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The Duty structure is higher in South Africa, hence even the Scoripo and Thar sold there are almost 50-70% higher priced that in India.

So we need not be surprised to see the 2.0 ltrs altis being priced around 17L. It is effectively in the same 10-13L range at which the 1.4 ltr altis has been introduced in India.

Lets NOT think that the 2.0 ltr version would have been too expensive for us. It should have landed in the same price band as 1.4 ltr diesel. The 1.4 ltr diesel should have been at same or lower price than the 1.8 ltr petrol.
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Old 23rd July 2010, 15:28   #397
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the Petrol version is for R 258K and Diesel (2.0 litre) for 283. 10% premium over petrol.

here we pay 8% premium and get such an underpowered car.
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Old 23rd July 2010, 15:42   #398
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I think the success factor of this automobile can be attributed to TOYOTA brand more than anything else. Apart from that, there's nothing special about this machine. If I were to buy something in this segment, I would go for Laura as it's leagues ahead of Altis diesel in performance has better interiors, better comfort, better engine and better looking.
FE should not be that big of a talk here as CRUZE claimed (ARAI rating) 18.27 kmpl which is not too bad considering it's shattering performance. 21.43 kmpl (Claimed) for this weak an engine is hardly tempting.
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Old 23rd July 2010, 15:48   #399
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I dont know but I have an eerie feeling that Toyota may have to eat humble pie this time around. A 1.4 liter diesel for 12.5 OTR Delhi is just way too expensive.
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Old 23rd July 2010, 16:41   #400
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Let me hit the bell & say yes, inspite of the underpowered engine, i will consider going for an Altis Diesel. And before you guys flame me, here are my reasons:

1. I & my close relatives & friends have owned brands of various companies & we all agree that as far as after sales service is concerned, nothing can beat the Japs.

2. Ditto Points to the Japs for Long term Relatively Maintenance Free Reliability. eg. 25 year old Maruti's, Over 12 year old Honda City's Still Holding up well, 2.5L km still running Qualises.

3. We have only self-driven cars & Dad has never been fond of drivers. We have a small factory set-up with less than 30 people employed with us & mostly rely on self-supervision. Hence, business is our first priority & taking the car to fix minor niggles like we've faced with our Logan (Electricals, A/c Condensor Replaced), my Uncle's Skoda Octavia (Multiple problems), Cousin's Linea (Electricals, A/c Failure) & Cousin's Jetta (Electricals, Excessive Oil Consumption, DSG problem) etc. are the last things to do on our mind. Living in a city like Bombay, we're always half-pressed for time.

4. I am sure that the Altis won't have good high speed stability compared to the European Cars but with age now (I am 35) we hardly drive over 120 or 130kmph max even on the Expressway as we mostly travel with family. I have driven a petrol Corolla 2 years back for 400kms, To Pune & back & was perfectly in control maintaining speeds of 140kmph too. Also, i am really tired of the Hard Steering (HPS) in the Logan compared to the EPS in the Altis. For bumper-to-bumper traffic city driving, where this is going to be used 95% of the time, a lighter steering is a boon cutting lanes from standstill, low speeds etc.

5. We will keep this car for 8-10 years minimum. Can Laura's & Jetta's last that long relatively niggle free? I doubt. And its the current Qualis & Innova owners (i.e. in our circle) who want to go for this car as they have experienced the ownership & vouch for its long term reliability.

6. The service centre for the Logan now is only in Bhandup & Thane. Even though thay have pick-up & drop facility, either they don't have enough drivers, parts are not in stock and have never received my car on the same day. Toyota's dealer, Madhuban is in Kurla, where i visit a customer in the adjacent building each & every day. Even my customer has a Petrol Corolla & the way his 5 year old car is abused is not even worth mentioning. He has done 1.2L kms & replaced clutch plate at 92k kms. Other than body damages, scratches etc he has not spent on mechanicals barring fuel filter, oil filter, brake pads etc.

These are my reasons, though not everybody may agree with me but these are my views.

Last edited by anilkalvani : 23rd July 2010 at 16:52. Reason: spellings
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Old 23rd July 2010, 16:50   #401
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I dont know but I have an eerie feeling that Toyota may have to eat humble pie this time around. A 1.4 liter diesel for 12.5 OTR Delhi is just way too expensive.
In earlier times, I never thought I would have agreed on your observation ...... ever. But this time around and on this product it looks like it is more nearer to the truth.

Someone who is already driving on diesel, one who has to pay lower for diesel cost anyways, why would he be bother about the fuel efficiency. Especially so if the mileage gain is just about 2-3 KMPL compared to nearest rival.

If fuel efficiency was such an over-riding factor for diesels in this this price band, why didn't fortuner get that 2.0 or 2.5 L diesel engine. It is because this segment still likes the feel of power, mileage is nowhere in its mind.

Last edited by anu21v : 23rd July 2010 at 16:53.
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Old 23rd July 2010, 17:40   #402
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anilkalvani

Inspite of all the -ves of the new diesel altis,

Yes the Corolla Altis should suite you well, even the petrol would probably be fine for your requirements.

It's all about the requirements, and for you this should be fine. Yes corolla is not being fair giving us the 1.4 engine vs the 2.0 it is deploying in SA, but as long as they can get away with it, why wont they do it. It is frankly the absence of a reliable alternative that makes this work for them.

The Tata Manza should actually work even better for you. Since being a logan user you must not be too concerned about the brand snob value, and the Manza with it's huge price diferential and an equally competent engine as well as comparable interior size, make for good VFM with reasonable reilability due to it using the Fiat engine. Niggles should be less frequent. Heck in the price of the Altis you could get two manzas and keep one spare just in case.
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Old 23rd July 2010, 17:55   #403
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anilkalvani i completely agree with you and the lack of power people will be crying about will never be felt in big cities where you usually never drive over 70 kmph (during mumbai rush over its more like 40kmph) My altis that i just bought few weeks back shows avg km/h of not over 28kmph in the past couple of weeks (which includes a lot of rush hour driving and some night driving on clear roads) I think the diesel is over priced but they couldnt kill the petrol models. Also all the talk about reliability being similar for all car makers, well from my experience (currently have 4 cars of different makes) and from experiences of friends and colleagues, all vouch for Toyota. If nothing major even minor issues like power window not working properly or rattles etc are an annoyance and everyone who has owned a corolla have never complained about these things. My cousin has two corollas one he has driven for 1.4 lakh kilometers and he still thinks he has never owned such a trouble free car in his life (and he owns about 6 different cars currently) I think a lot of people will have the same thought process and will find Altis diesel a good bet even though it is under powered.
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Old 23rd July 2010, 17:57   #404
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anilkalvani

Inspite of all the -ves of the new diesel altis,

Yes the Corolla Altis should suite you well, even the petrol would probably be fine for your requirements.

It's all about the requirements, and for you this should be fine. Yes corolla is not being fair giving us the 1.4 engine vs the 2.0 it is deploying in SA, but as long as they can get away with it, why wont they do it. It is frankly the absence of a reliable alternative that makes this work for them.

The Tata Manza should actually work even better for you. Since being a logan user you must not be too concerned about the brand snob value, and the Manza with it's huge price diferential and an equally competent engine as well as comparable interior size, make for good VFM with reasonable reilability due to it using the Fiat engine. Niggles should be less frequent. Heck in the price of the Altis you could get two manzas and keep one spare just in case.
I had a Tata Indigo & as far as i am concerned, i will never buy an Indian Engineered car in the foreseeable future, sad but true. I could write volumes on the problems i faced with it & do not want to visit that era again. And as you rightly said, there is no other 'reliable' alternative. Price is not a criteria as much as peace of mind. Fill it, Shut it, Forget it. Got it?

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+1 Agree Totally

Last edited by anilkalvani : 23rd July 2010 at 18:00. Reason: Multiquote
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Old 23rd July 2010, 20:06   #405
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I had a Tata Indigo & as far as i am concerned, i will never buy an Indian Engineered car in the foreseeable future, sad but true. I could write volumes on the problems i faced with it & do not want to visit that era again. And as you rightly said, there is no other 'reliable' alternative. Price is not a criteria as much as peace of mind. Fill it, Shut it, Forget it. Got it?
Hi friends,
I fully agree with anilkalvani.When I was a student I had time to pamper my Indica and Swift.When I started to work I cannot afford to spend any time on car maintanence,even a rattle is troublesome.So opted for ANHC,which many say is over priced by a lakh.But I consider its worth the money.Ran about 20,000 km in one year and checked oil(self) only once.One lakh rupees extra is not a huge sum for a trouble free car.

But the omission of Airbags in the base model of ALTIS Diesel is shocking.
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