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Old 12th May 2010, 19:11   #76
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Originally Posted by CARDEEP View Post
But, Swift is still better than most of the competitors products, mainly because of the pricing & Maruti's A.S.S. (which has built up the brand name).
Quite frankly I have never understood how a Swift is value for money? For the price of a base Swift petrol you now get a fully loaded Beat and the mid level Ford Figo. Swift diesel is the costliest hatch when it comes to price to equipment ratio and I am not even talking about the build quality, ride and handling and other related paraphernalia. Similar is the case with the Ritz and the newly launched WagonR or the recently launched Estilo.

I dont know how Maruti's are value for money unless your idea of VFM is good fuel economy but even then except for the small cars in the Maruti lineup (more tin boxes than cars) none of their higher end cars are particularly fuel efficient when compared to the competition. (Case in point SX4, Vitara)
Even the older 1.3 Petrol Swift wasn't exactly fuel efficient.

Its all perception and the perception also says that Maruti's are cheap (in social-economically) which is why a 10 lakh rupee Maruti is destined to be a failure.
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Old 12th May 2010, 19:34   #77
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As far as I'm concerned, the Swift D beater is already here- the Figo diesel.
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Old 12th May 2010, 21:24   #78
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Originally Posted by SilkDrive View Post
But just comparing "debadged" products, someone would prefer the swifts pickup, some would love the puntos ride and handling and some would love the figos VFM and rear bench comfort.
I find Indica vista fitting well into the decent pickup, ride quality, average handling, VFM car. And yes, the badge spoils the car's market. I am sure a suzuki vista too would have pushed up sales. But lets get back to reality.
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Old 12th May 2010, 22:00   #79
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i was amused to see the thread topic as to what exactly the thread started wanted to convey.
here are my thoughts

1. Apart from the engine which is a stonker in performance and gives a good mileage i dont find anything appealing in the swift.

2. Compare it with Punto apart from engine and you will find its way ahead of swift in all other matters. punto is lot lot safer than swift when it comes to a real accident. Maruti cars get mangled beyond recognition when it comes to accident. Tata Fiat and Ford take lead with heavy sheet metal.

3. I think its time for maruti to upgrade the swift quickly. interiors especially and features.
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Old 12th May 2010, 22:44   #80
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Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post
i was amused to see the thread topic as to what exactly the thread started wanted to convey.
here are my thoughts

1. Apart from the engine which is a stonker in performance and gives a good mileage i dont find anything appealing in the swift.

2. Compare it with Punto apart from engine and you will find its way ahead of swift in all other matters. punto is lot lot safer than swift when it comes to a real accident. Maruti cars get mangled beyond recognition when it comes to accident. Tata Fiat and Ford take lead with heavy sheet metal.

3. I think its time for maruti to upgrade the swift quickly. interiors especially and features.
With the Swift and many such cars, Maruti has fooled many customers to buy cramped and claustrophobic cars. Only comfort being huge service network.

That every car maker is gearing up. TATA's have gone ages ahead in service network and customer satisfaction.

The new Vista Drivetech4 has lots more than what a Swift D can offer and at much lower price.

Swift D is selling only because of Fiats. Thats the bottom line.

No Fiat Multijet, no Swift D.
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Old 12th May 2010, 22:45   #81
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Originally Posted by theMAG View Post
As far as I'm concerned, the Swift D beater is already here- the Figo diesel.
It is potentially a Swift-D beater. But, for the masses to agree, it'd have to earn a reputation for astounding FE i.e. better than the swift's. Initial FE reports aren't very encouraging.
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Old 12th May 2010, 22:50   #82
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Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
No Fiat Multijet, no Swift D.
A small correction.

No Fiat Multijet in maruti, no Swift

The MJD failed to impress volumes in other cars including very own fiat.
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Old 13th May 2010, 00:53   #83
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Originally Posted by mjothi View Post
A small correction.

No Fiat Multijet in maruti, no Swift

The MJD failed to impress volumes in other cars including very own fiat.
Exactly my point, Jothi. Fiat's own baby is not a scorcher it is in Swift. I don't see what is not to understand here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
With the Swift and many such cars, Maruti has fooled many customers to buy cramped and claustrophobic cars. Only comfort being huge service network.

That every car maker is gearing up. TATA's have gone ages ahead in service network and customer satisfaction.

The new Vista Drivetech4 has lots more than what a Swift D can offer and at much lower price.

Swift D is selling only because of Fiats. Thats the bottom line.

No Fiat Multijet, no Swift D.

Pavan, I don't care ( IDC ) if MUL fools us, IDC if they have no technology and use Fiat engines ( incidentally why need technology when you can borrow it and better it?), IDC if it looks ugly ( on the contrary it looks best despite 5 year old design ), IDC if it doesn't sell well ( on the contrary it is best selling-- icing on the cake for MUL ), IDC if it rattles ( it does ), IDC if it is cramped ( it is ), IDC if it is tinny ( it is ), IDC if it is less driveable in city ( yes it is ). What I care about is that it smokes every other diesel hatch on highway. Period. Nothing else matters, to me. I think I have set the record straight now. Now some say i20 can. I am not sure. In every review of i20, they said it is not as good a performer as Swift on highway is. Now, if they are wrong, then I don't know.
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Old 13th May 2010, 09:58   #84
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6 pages of pointless discussion on everything except what the OP asked.

The OP's query is about any potential future hatch that can beat the Swift in show and go. The Figo is showing promise in sales (which is a good thing because this waiting period thing is not good for us customers - earlier it was only for Swift-D, now it is for petrol version also which is a worrying trend), but I don't think it can beat the Swift on the params mentioned by the OP.

But, instead of pointing out any such cars, the discussion is meandering on about the Swift itself -
- why the Swift sells : because it is better than the competition - that should be elementary.
- why Swift is not VFM : aha, all the 10K+ guys buying it every month are idiots, while all the brainee folks are driving Puntos and residing on tbhp - common gimme a break.
- about Maruti not having its own diesel engine : Heck Fiat does not have its own service setup. But that's OK because its Fiat.
- the whole thing about the Swift is the Fiat engine : Atleast they know better than the engine-designer how to provide a well-rounded product with that engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_mechengg
Apart from the engine which is a stonker in performance and gives a good mileage i dont find anything appealing in the swift.
That is interesting. On tbhp, we think we are a level above the general populace (though this is just wishful "thinking") and most of us here are bothered either about engine/performance or mileage with "looks and features" coming close behind. And you admit that the Swift has both performance and mileage, (looks are subjective, but most people find it looking good) but you dont see anything else in it. I have a 1.3l Swift-P and the only thing I hate about it is the engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_mechengg
Maruti cars get mangled beyond recognition when it comes to accident. Tata Fiat and Ford take lead with heavy sheet metal.
Oh yeah, we have discussed this sheet-metal thing to death. Let's not bring up such juvenile arguments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM
TATA's have gone ages ahead in service network and customer satisfaction.
Yeah, the barbecue-on-wheels must be one of the customer satisfaction initiatives.

I have driven both the Swift-D (TD car) and the Punto-D (friend's car) for a few kms, and the Punto sucks in comparison to the Swift in driving. I am talking "normal driving". You could blame the extra flab on the Punto for that and I think that could mostly be the reason too, but since when did being lean become a bad thing ? But it sure beats the Swift in features - no doubt about that.

Last edited by Eddy : 13th May 2010 at 13:02. Reason: Removing off topic content
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Old 13th May 2010, 10:03   #85
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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
Exactly my point, Jothi. Fiat's own baby is not a scorcher it is in Swift. I don't see what is not to understand here?

Pavan, I don't care ( IDC ) if MUL fools us, IDC if they have no technology and use Fiat engines ( incidentally why need technology when you can borrow it and better it?), IDC if it looks ugly ( on the contrary it looks best despite 5 year old design ), IDC if it doesn't sell well ( on the contrary it is best selling-- icing on the cake for MUL ), IDC if it rattles ( it does ), IDC if it is cramped ( it is ), IDC if it is tinny ( it is ), IDC if it is less driveable in city ( yes it is ). What I care about is that it smokes every other diesel hatch on highway. Period. Nothing else matters, to me. I think I have set the record straight now. Now some say i20 can. I am not sure. In every review of i20, they said it is not as good a performer as Swift on highway is. Now, if they are wrong, then I don't know.

The basline is, Swift D is not such a great car that it deserves a thread like this. It simply cannot win, as there are better and family oriented cars in the present day market.

We have seen many cars , beat Swift black and blue in terms of performance and styling. Hyundai scrapped their ever so good Getz CRDi and got the wonderful i20, for what reason. They were people oriented and wanted to give better , comfortable cars to the Indian family. And its doing damn well today.

The Indica diesel sold better, why did Tata's get the Vista and the Vista Drivetech4. Because, they understood the needs of an average Indian family.

What a Maruti's doing. Still selling tinny, cramped cars at a premium, and a staged/built up waiting periods. Haw.....! c'mon get real.

Swift D is no great Car.

Last edited by Eddy : 13th May 2010 at 13:03. Reason: Removing off topic content
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Old 13th May 2010, 10:18   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM
It simply cannot win, as there are better and family oriented cars in the present day market.
Cannot win ? It has been winning from the day it was introduced some years ago. And yet to see any competition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM
We have seen many cars , beat Swift black and blue in terms of performance and styling. Hyundai scrapped their ever so good Getz CRDi and got the wonderful i20, for what reason.
I don't remember seeing any car. The Getz_D scrapped ? Hey, when did it even "sell", to be scrapped ?

Last edited by Eddy : 13th May 2010 at 13:04. Reason: Removing off topic content
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Old 13th May 2010, 10:32   #87
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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
Nothing else matters, to me. I think I have set the record straight now. Now some say i20 can. I am not sure. In every review of i20, they said it is not as good a performer as Swift on highway is. Now, if they are wrong, then I don't know.
Well, I once overtook a swift diesel in my i20 diesel, the guy looked so pissed off, he came back and kept honking so that I made way for him, I was probably doing 140 then, I did not give him an inch, just floored the throttle, he was just behind me till 150+, once I crossed 160 it was Astalavista baby to the swift. So let us not believe what reviews say.
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Old 13th May 2010, 10:57   #88
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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
Quite frankly I have never understood how a Swift is value for money? For the price of a base Swift petrol you now get a fully loaded Beat and the mid level Ford Figo. Swift diesel is the costliest hatch when it comes to price to equipment ratio and I am not even talking about the build quality, ride and handling and other related paraphernalia. Similar is the case with the Ritz and the newly launched WagonR or the recently launched Estilo.

I dont know how Maruti's are value for money unless your idea of VFM is good fuel economy but even then except for the small cars in the Maruti lineup (more tin boxes than cars) none of their higher end cars are particularly fuel efficient when compared to the competition. (Case in point SX4, Vitara)
Even the older 1.3 Petrol Swift wasn't exactly fuel efficient.

Its all perception and the perception also says that Maruti's are cheap (in social-economically) which is why a 10 lakh rupee Maruti is destined to be a failure.
Quite frankly I have never understood how you have picked up one line from the entire post that was in general longer than most of the posts in the entire thread. Please go through the post carefully & you will see that I have criticised Maruti Suzuki like anything with proper rationale.

I agree that Maruti's sales are all about perception that these cars have good FE when a Maruti would give FE same as that of the competitors with better performance, space & features & almost equal reliability (Honda excluded). But the answer lies in their A.S.S. network which is bigger than any other competitors.
Swift Diesel also gained because of inept competition (Tata, who else existed with a Diesel hatch) which has helped to keep the sales in full momemtun because of word of mouth. BTW most of the people I know owned a Maruti car for long have, not surprisingly, upgraded to non-Maruti cars & are more happy with their decisions.
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Old 13th May 2010, 11:46   #89
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Sadly, this thread is turning into a Maruti bashing exercise. In my opinion, the Swift sells because it happens to tick the most number of boxes in a car buyers wish list, primary of them being resale, mileage and service. A bonus is the performance.

The lack of features is a turn off for some, but there are ways to get after market fittings and include more features. But how often do we use all the features in the car in a day? How often do 5 people sit in it? There are many such things that a probable user will look at and choose the car that they best feel fits their requirements and somehow more people choose the Swift.

Now, when I bought the car, I was also considering the Gez CRDI. I was somehow put off my the sales experience (No TD car, please drive Verna). Also, the price in comparision to the Swift D with ABS was on the higher side and I opted for the mental peace that ABS gives me.

For other cars to match up to the Swift sales now, it requires the manufacturers to ensure that the whole exercise of selling, maintenance and resale has to beat that of Maruti. Some are close, but for the general public all that matters is that the best manufacturer wins.
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Old 13th May 2010, 12:52   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latheesh
Huh, even you do not have anything to say about the car in question.
I thought I started off by mentioning the only competition I could see - Figo. Maybe you overlooked that part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CARDEEP
I agree that Maruti's sales are all about perception that these cars have good FE when a Maruti would give FE same as that of the competitors with better performance, space & features & almost equal reliability (Honda excluded).
Perceptions cannot help sustain any company for 25 years and more. Perceptions get broken in a matter of time. Let me give you some examples of what you call perception - all figures are from owners I know personally.

Accent : Chennai city FE with 100% AC - 10kmpl
Baleno : Chennai city FE with 100% AC - 12kmpl (a clear 20% better FE)

Getz-1.3 : Chennai city FE with 100% AC - 10kmpl
Swift-1.3 : Chennai city FE with 100% AC - 12kmpl // the 1.2 is even more FE

And among all the cars sporting the Fiat-MJD, the Swift has the best FE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CARDEEP
BTW most of the people I know owned a Maruti car for long have, not surprisingly, upgraded to non-Maruti cars
Ofcourse they would. Because for someone who has used a Alto/Swift etc, what is the upgrade option available in Suzuki ? Only the SX4. So whats so surprising about them going for other options like Toyota/Honda/Skoda whatever.
If I have to upgrade from my Baleno, my options are all non-Maruti - that does not say anything about Suzuki except that they dont have options in upper-C segment and higher.

Last edited by supremeBaleno : 13th May 2010 at 13:05.
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