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Old 23rd April 2011, 08:20   #301
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Default Re: Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking

Welcome back Smartcat.
Adding a Filter on Petrols, Diesels and corresponding automatics will be a great help.
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Old 23rd April 2011, 11:11   #302
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Default Re: Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking

Welcome back.

This thread was a personal favorite during its boom days. (I was also a very silent member then)

The C segment is hotting up after a few years of lull. Good time for the ranking system to be active again. In fact since you are spending so much energy on this, ranking of all segments maybe more useful.

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Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
I have bought a domain name, hired a programmer and within a year, I intend to have my website ready.
Apart from ranking cars, will the website have any other features. Keenly looking forward.

Last edited by dot : 23rd April 2011 at 11:13.
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Old 23rd April 2011, 16:41   #303
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Default Re: Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking

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Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
Anyhoo, coming back to cars, I now present Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - Quantitative Ranking (Year 2011)
It was your brilliant spreadsheet that helped me put together something similar before I made my purchase. However, I sought to 'correct' one thing in your method, that of every feature having equal weightage in the overall score.

My post has that file attached on the first page, to give you an idea of what I did to give relative weightages to various features. Looking forward to your next iteration on this, which I am sure will be far better than what I managed.

Last edited by LithiumSunset : 23rd April 2011 at 16:42.
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Old 24th April 2011, 02:27   #304
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Default Re: Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking

Quote:
Originally Posted by echo77 View Post
Would adding the automatics in the range (City, Vento, Verna) be any helpful?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RemingtonSteele View Post
Adding a Filter on Petrols, Diesels and corresponding automatics will be a great help.
Automatics huh? OK, but this is a job for the year 2012!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dot View Post
Apart from ranking cars, will the website have any other features. Keenly looking forward.
I guess I wasn't very clear. The website will be about stocks (equities) and not cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LithiumSunset View Post
It was your brilliant spreadsheet that helped me put together something similar before I made my purchase.
I have bookmarked the thread and have downloaded your spreadsheet. Will check it out soon.

Meanwhile, do you think 3rd and 4th gear acceleration figures for SX4 petrol mentioned by ACI magazine is accurate? I was wondering if it is a printing mistake. Set your CNG car to "petrol" mode, drop down to 20 kmph in the 3rd gear, stand on the accelerator pedal and let us know how it goes!


-------------------------------------------------------------------------


ROUND NO.1 - ENGINE PERFORMANCE

In this round, the following parameters will be considered -

0 - 60 kmph time in secs
0 - 100 kmph time in secs
Top Speed in kph
20 - 80 kph in 3rd gear in secs
40 - 100 kph in 4th gear in secs
Standing to Quarter Mile in Secs


This time, I'm combining outright acceleration (0 to 60, 0 to 100) and in-gear acceleration/ driveability (3rd & 4th gear figures) in the same "PERFORMANCE" category (previously, they were separated) to avoid double weightage to engine characteristics.

I'm also including 2 new parameters - top speed and time taken to get to quarter mile from standstill. In my opinion, one can get a good idea about the stability of a car at highway speeds when one looks at the top speed. Eg: A car like Mitsubishi Cedia which has been engineered to reach a top speed of 195 kmph will be comfortable cruising at 140 kmph on a highway, as compared to, say, a Mahindra Logan (top speed 170 kmph).




0 - 60 KMPH TIME RANKINGS:

Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking-0to60kmph.jpg



0 - 100 KMPH TIME RANKINGS:

Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking-0to100kmph.jpg



TOP SPEED RANKINGS:

Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking-topspeed.jpg



20 - 80 KMPH IN 3RD GEAR RANKINGS:

Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking-20to80kmph.jpg



40 - 100 KMPH IN 4TH GEAR RANKINGS:

Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking-40to100kmph.jpg



STANDING TO QUARTER MILE RANKINGS:

Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking-quartermile.jpg


We now assign equal weightage to all the 6 performance parameters to arrive at the overall rankings -

Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking-performance.jpg




COMMENTS:

- Adding a tiny turbocharger on top of a weezy 1.4 litre petrol engine seems to totally transformed the Linea from a tortoise to a hare.

- Vento diesel murders the competition with its 3rd and 4th gear acceleration figures.

- The other new entrant Etios' engine goes neck and neck with its arch rival Honda City.

- Swift petrol is almost like a hot hatch. But add a boot it with out modifying the engine, and DZire petrol's performance shows when you compare it with peers like Verna, Fiesta etc.
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Old 24th April 2011, 03:16   #305
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Default Re: Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking

Turbo on Linea seems to have done wonders on the performance aspect. I must admit that i'm surprised by the city, Linea just barely manages to overthrow a naturally aspirated engine. Interesting!

Interesting to note the 1.6 Vento (Petrol) timing. Me thinks this engine on a 200 kg lesser car will make it a stonker.. Voila - The 1.6 polo!!!

Thank you, Smartcat for the fantastic analysis!!

Last edited by azeemhafiz : 24th April 2011 at 03:17. Reason: Forgot to thank Smartcat
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Old 24th April 2011, 10:43   #306
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Default Re: Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking

Perhaps this has been discussed before. Nevertheless, posting some thoughts.

It makes sense to give equal points to entries where the difference between the result in really close. Like the ones you have given for the quartermile rankings and top speed. Same can be thought for the acceleration and roll-on figures. Since the test results being considered here are taken from magazines which conduct the trials under different set of conditions, decimal place difference can be neglected because they may not be statistically significant.

For example, lets take Cedia 2.0 petrol and Linea 1.4 T-Jet.
Cedia 0-60 is 4.46 sec.
Linea 0-60 is 4.47 sec.

Are we sure that every time a 0-60 run is conducted these two cars will return the same figures, upto the second decimal point. Unlikely in my opinion. Maybe both can have the same ranking.


Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
I guess I wasn't very clear. The website will be about stocks (equities) and not cars.
Even better!
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Old 24th April 2011, 10:56   #307
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Default Re: Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking

@ smartcat- The Honda City is not the Toyota Etio's arch rival. Etios is actually a segment below the City
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Old 24th April 2011, 13:34   #308
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Default Re: Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking

Very useful compendium, thanks so much for this.

Question 1: Are these manufacturer specifications? Has anyone actually tried hitting 160+ in a Verna? Just the power/weight and gear ratios do not tell the whole story.

Question 2: Isn't braking as critical to performance as acceleration and top speed?

Question 3: Similar, but for handling - isn't that equally important? This obviously may not be available if these are compiled figures and not an actual test.
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Old 26th April 2011, 00:57   #309
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Default Re: Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking

Quote:
Originally Posted by dot View Post
It makes sense to give equal points to entries where the difference between the result in really close.
Even if you give equal points, the end result would not be significantly different according to me. I will upload the XL sheet at the end of this exercise - you can try it out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 333 View Post
@ smartcat- The Honda City is not the Toyota Etio's arch rival. Etios is actually a segment below the City
I guess that is debatable!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cranky View Post

Question 1, Question 2, Question 3
Answer 1: No. These numbers are from car magazines.

Answer 2: You will see the braking numbers when we compare the safety of each car.

Answer 3: Handling & performance can be compared if any car magazine tests the cars in a race circuit.But unfortunately, they don't.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------


ROUND NO. 2 - PRACTICALITY

In this round, we compare the usual suspects like -

- Turning circle diameter (as a measure of maneuverability in the city)
- Headroom at the rear
- Legroom at the rear
- Rear seat width
- Boot Space

The newest addition is "Number of dealers" - the logic being that buying a car from a company with a dealer in every city/town/village is more practical than buying a car from a manufacturer who only has just 10 dealers all over in India, all of them being in metros. If you go with a company with a higher number of dealers -

- You can always switch between authorized service centers if you are unhappy with the service levels.
- More the number of dealers, less will be the "waiting period" - you don't have to book a slot and wait for 15 days to get your car serviced.
- If you have an accident in a town 200 kms from Shillong, you will get help sooner if you own a Maruti Swift rather than a Nissan Micra.


NUMBER OF DEALERS:

Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking-dealers.jpg



BOOT SPACE:

Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking-bootspace.jpg



TURNING CIRCLE DIA:

Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking-turningcircle.jpg



MAXIMUM REAR LEGROOM:

Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking-maxlegroom.jpg



MINIMUM REAR LEGROOM:

Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking-minlegroom.jpg



REAR HEADROOM:

Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking-headroom.jpg



REAR SEAT WIDTH:

Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking-seatwidth.jpg



Assigning equal weigtage of each of the six parameters, the ranking of cars by practicality goes something like this -

Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking-practicality.jpg





Comments:

- Tata Motors actually has 1000+ dealers in India, but most of them sell and service only commercial vehicles.

- Chevrolet has a surprisingly large number of dealers.

- Toyota Etios might only be 4.2 metres long, but it has serious amount of room at the back seat and the boot.

- The other new entrant Vento scores below average in almost all the parameters.
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Old 26th April 2011, 13:29   #310
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Default Re: Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking

Smartcat good to see you back at this, will be following the updates this time as well. keep at it.

Yep should be made an annual feature.
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Old 26th April 2011, 13:40   #311
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Default Re: Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking

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Even if you give equal points, the end result would not be significantly different according to me. I will upload the XL sheet at the end of this exercise - you can try it out.
I would agree to this. The ones in top of the list will anyway remain there, i.e. positions in the column will not change dramatically. Moreover equal weightage is being given to all the parameters across the board. So the end result may be similar.

Looking forward for the rest of the analysis.

Last edited by dot : 26th April 2011 at 13:41.
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Old 26th April 2011, 16:33   #312
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Default Re: Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking

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Originally Posted by ACM View Post
ACM
2010 Tata ARIA Pride.
Tata Aria? Congratulations! I don't see the pics in your "garage"?


------------------------------------------------------------------

Re-basing the points earned by each car in PERFORMANCE and PRACTICALITY categories on a scale of 25 to 1 -



Name:  performance.JPG
Views: 1876
Size:  65.2 KB



Name:  practicality.JPG
Views: 1875
Size:  61.3 KB





Ranking of cars with the best compromise between PERFORMANCE & PRACTICALITY -


Name:  pp.JPG
Views: 1988
Size:  76.3 KB



Comments :

- New entrants Linea T-Jet and Etios get to the top right away.

- "Old" cars like Fiesta, Verna and DZire (all of which will be replaced with new generation cars this year) start off the competition at the bottom/middle of the table. Optra (8 years old now) diesel is an exception though.




Next, we compare the FEATURES of each car - and this might take some time. I have lost my old XL sheet :( I guess I'll have to re-create the whole features list again!
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Old 27th April 2011, 10:49   #313
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Default Re: Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking

Indeed Etios is quite a surprise. I guess I underestimated the vehicle. Also nice to know that 8 year old Optra (perhaps oldest of all) is still value product OT here but, I really wonder why chevy isn't marketting this product. A little reposisioning and good marketting can really do wonders for this product. Anyway nice job again @smartcat. Waiting for more.
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Old 27th April 2011, 11:51   #314
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Default Re: Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking

The new Fiesta with sub 10second for 0-100 should hit the top of the table. It will be interesting to include the new Fiesta and Verna.
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Old 27th April 2011, 12:40   #315
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Default Re: Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking

Fantastic analysis Smartcat. Thank you.

@ xPK - I agree with your statement and wonder the same. I recently purchased the Chevy Optra LT 2.0 Tdci and its a lovely car to drive. (If you can bare the initial turbo lag till 1700 rpm) Interiors are not too bad and neatly laid out. Materials used are of decent quality for the price it sells. It comes loaded for the price too. Hope and wish Chevy wakes up. It could never be too late.
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