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Old 10th May 2011, 12:16   #376
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Default Re: Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking

Optra tops amongst the diesels! Quite a deal for car which really is about 8 years old (though the engine is probably about 4 years old). Chevy seems to be doing something right. But maybe not enough right to clock enough sales. And this happens when this segment has had ample focus from car companies.

Fiat topping the overall/petrol ranking. From a manufacturer which was nearly packing up a while back.

Interesting results!

Great work and persistence Smartcat. Thanks yet again.
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Old 10th May 2011, 12:25   #377
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Default Re: Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking

Nice work .
In the final ranking the cbc (Customer Buying Criteria) in the Indian market is obviously different (in India) than those projected here, since the top two cars projected are not exactly topping the sales figures!

Cheers!
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Old 10th May 2011, 12:26   #378
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Default Re: Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking

smartcat - good thread and your effort should be commended.
But the end of it I am smiling because I got the T-Jet.

I feel the service quality and interiors ratings are a little exaggerated on the negative side :-). It is not that bad. service is bad with a few dealers and the interiors should have been same as city or a little higher !!
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Old 10th May 2011, 16:17   #379
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Default Re: Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking

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Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
Optra tops amongst the diesels! Quite a deal for car which really is about 8 years old (though the engine is probably about 4 years old). Chevy seems to be doing something right. But maybe not enough right to clock enough sales. And this happens when this segment has had ample focus from car companies.
I just realized that Chevrolet has quietly slashed Optra diesel's prices by around Rs. 1.5 Lacs (after removing a few features I think). If you look back to 2010 analysis, the price of Optra LT diesel was Rs. 12.3 Lacs on-road Mumbai. Now, its just Rs. 10.9 Lacs.

Chevrolet managed to sell 368 Optras in April 2011, by the way. This is the highest in recent times I think.

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Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
Nice work .
In the final ranking the cbc (Customer Buying Criteria) in the Indian market is obviously different (in India) than those projected here, since the top two cars projected are not exactly topping the sales figures!

Cheers!
In the Rs. 10 Lacs range, the sales volumes are hardly 10,000 per month. Sedans costing Rs. 6 - 8 Lacs is the top selling sub-segment in the sedan category. You should be looking at the relative rankings of Manza, DZire, Logan, Aveo, Accent and Etios only. I know there still no correlation as such between sales figures and my rankings. That's because no buyer will assign equal weightage to all the 17 parameters we have in our rankings.

This ranking table has been carefully designed to confuse & irritate car buyers. For example - Before reading this thread, team-BHP member poitive was confused about which diesel car to buy - Manza, SX4 or Optra. After reading this thread, he is more confused than ever!


Quote:
Originally Posted by madhukar_n View Post
I feel the service quality and interiors ratings are a little exaggerated on the negative side :-). It is not that bad. service is bad with a few dealers and the interiors should have been same as city or a little higher !!
Personally, I like Linea/Punto interiors. But I'll have to take the opinion of authoritative sources only in the rankings. Regarding service quality, I guess Fiat owners will have to be more vocal about their good experiences at the authorized service center. Only then the perception about Fiat will change.
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Old 10th May 2011, 16:27   #380
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Default Re: Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking

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Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
I
In the Rs. 10 Lacs range, the sales volumes are hardly 10,000 per month. Sedans costing Rs. 6 - 8 Lacs is the top selling sub-segment in the sedan category. You should be looking at the relative rankings of Manza, DZire, Logan, Aveo, Accent and Etios only. I know there still no correlation as such between sales figures and my rankings. That's because no buyer will assign equal weightage to all the 17 parameters we have in our rankings.

This ranking table has been carefully designed to confuse & irritate car buyers. For example - Before reading this thread, team-BHP member poitive was confused about which diesel car to buy - Manza, SX4 or Optra. After reading this thread, he is more confused than ever!
This comment had me

Loved this aspect of your study as no 2 individuals have the same set of priorities while buying cars, even if they have similar parameters in mind the weightage will vary.

I hope those who utilize the study do understand that there is no absolute best or worst car, but that this is meant to help them decide which car shines brighter in the parameters that they value.
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Old 10th May 2011, 17:02   #381
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Default Re: Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking

I think the purpose of this thread should be giving data to people who are looking out for a new car. The method which is being used here might not work for everyone and it will get confusing. As far as I am concerned the excel file with all the data is more than sufficient. Those who want to buy a new car can look at the data and make his own deductions as well as decide his own weightages. You cannot rank cars as it is a subjective thing. It is just like comparing two good movies. You just cannot make one a clear winner.
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Old 10th May 2011, 19:32   #382
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Default Re: Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking

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It is just like comparing two good movies. You just cannot make one a clear winner.
That part makes this thread even more interesting. Discussions opens up the details of different aspects, which helps the individuals to be aware of his preferred aspect positive and negatives

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Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
Review on VW Vento's build quality is taken from Autocar India website
Vento 1.6 TDi Review
The same Autocar has rated the build quality as SOLID in a different review of them

Quote:
AUTOCAR - Vento seems like a good buy. You’ll love its solid build quality
VW Vento test drive and review | Autocar India

Last edited by Surprise : 10th May 2011 at 19:34.
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Old 11th May 2011, 12:42   #383
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Default Re: Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking

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I just realized that Chevrolet has quietly slashed Optra diesel's prices by around Rs. 1.5 Lacs (after removing a few features I think). If you look back to 2010 analysis, the price of Optra LT diesel was Rs. 12.3 Lacs on-road Mumbai. Now, its just Rs. 10.9 Lacs.
@Smartcat, Does that change how the Optra is ranked based on price and hence the overall rankings?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
This ranking table has been carefully designed to confuse & irritate car buyers. For example - Before reading this thread, team-BHP member poitive was confused about which diesel car to buy - Manza, SX4 or Optra. After reading this thread, he is more confused than ever!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post
This comment had me

Loved this aspect of your study as no 2 individuals have the same set of priorities while buying cars, even if they have similar parameters in mind the weightage will vary.
Hey guys, one day of being away from the team and this is what happens behind my back?

Why do u think I have been thanking you, Smartcat? You have been very successful in meeting your 'carefully designed objective'!!!

Now on a more serious note, I don't think that any car purchase (especially for people who follow the team), could be based on any ranking. Eventually it needs to feel right, when you drive a car. A lot of things are very personal. One may assign a lot of weightage to comfort, but what may be comfortable to one person may not be to another. A shoe comfortable to one may be very uncomfortable to another (even if of the same size).

The data here, surely does provide a broad overall perspective.

PS: About my choosing a car, musings and test drives of the Vento, Optra, SX4, Linea and Manza (two times) can be found at http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/sedans...continued.html . If and when I TD the Verna and Fiesta, will of course be updating it there. Any inputs would be welcome (to confuse the issue even more ;-) )

Last edited by Poitive : 11th May 2011 at 12:53. Reason: Added link to the test drives.
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Old 11th May 2011, 13:01   #384
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Default Re: Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking

Smartcat, I have been a big fan of this quantitative ranking as it is one of the few attempts of its kind and requires a lot of effort. Kudos!

However, I totally agree with you that one should not look at the total points but should look at individual categories depending on requirements.

Smartcat, the fact that Linea T-Jet petrol gets the top slot reveals some facts:

a. Resale value of new launches being unknown, the 'average' points has helped.

b. Performance, Ride / Handling / Steering, Safety features and lots of 'kit' really help a car make it to the top.

c. Merely large number of dealers is not enough. Having dealers who can handle the cars and having a good supply of parts is important. While your ranking takes care of the former, it doesn't (and maybe cannot) account for the latter.

d. If there was a parameter for "age of platform" or "novelty value", the Optra wouldn't be number two.

e. Both the cars at no. 1 and no. 2 (Linea T-Jet and Optra) are probably selling the least amongst all the cars listed here.
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Old 11th May 2011, 16:05   #385
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Default Re: Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking

Amazing work Smart cat. Looking at the XLS, i can understand the hard work put in the analysis. Take a bow.

My 2 cents here.
I have added another sheet to the XLS with name "My rankings".
The rankings given in "Total" sheet is the base for calculations in the new sheet.
Let me explain:
Say I am looking for a sedan under 12 L.
I take your XLS, rank the criterias given in Row "3" by assigning numbers from 1 to 10 in Row "2" (Highlighted in Yellow) based on my preferences.
I may assign same rank to more than 1 criteria.
Depending on the rankings provided in yellow cells, the "Best fit" column gives the best option for me based on my preferences.

Too much analysis leads to paralysis. I hope addition of this sheet does not lead to that.
Attached Files
File Type: xlsx sedan_buyers_guide_2011_2.0.xlsx (99.5 KB, 510 views)
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Old 11th May 2011, 16:50   #386
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Default Re: Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking

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Originally Posted by Surprise View Post
The same Autocar has rated the build quality as SOLID in a different review of them
hehe.. there goes my "authoritative source" argument out of the window!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
@Smartcat, Does that change how the Optra is ranked based on price and hence the overall rankings?
Not much because I have taken the right price. However, as Got_BHP mentioned a few pages back, Chevrolet has flicked a couple of features like auto-folding mirrors. Apparently, you also get lower quality alloys and few compromises when it comes to paint.

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Originally Posted by architect View Post
a. Resale value of new launches being unknown, the 'average' points has helped.
You are right. Expect Linea T-Jet to have one of the lowest resale values among new launches. A buyer needs to keep that in mind. If you have paid Rs. 10 Lacs for the T-Jet now, I wouldn't be surprised if you get only Rs. 3 - 4 Lacs after 5 or 6 years.

Quote:
d. If there was a parameter for "age of platform" or "novelty value", the Optra wouldn't be number two.
Including "No. of years since car launch" in the ranking is a great idea! Expect to see this in the 2012 ranking (and also the Small Car Buyer Guide). The age of the platform affects the buyer in 2 ways -

- It affects the resale value of the car. If you buy a car that has just been launched, you could still expect the car to be on sale (this helps resale values) when you sell it after 5 years. A car that is not on sale in a showroom will generally have lower resale values.

- For older cars, availability of spare parts for certain rarely used wear & tear parts (like timing belt) and accident parts (plastic piece that covers the engine, for example) might be an issue after a few years (after the production of new cars has been stopped).

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Originally Posted by bigwheelz View Post
Depending on the rankings provided in yellow cells, the "Best fit" column gives the best option for me based on my preferences.
Neat! But yes, it took me a few minutes to figure out what you have done there

Last edited by smartcat : 11th May 2011 at 17:06.
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Old 11th May 2011, 17:38   #387
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Default Re: Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking

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Originally Posted by bigwheelz View Post
Too much analysis leads to paralysis. I hope addition of this sheet does not lead to that.
Can you please attach the file with ".xls" extension? I am somehow not able to open the ".xlsx" format. If I open it I get some cryptic information.
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Old 11th May 2011, 17:44   #388
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Default Re: Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking

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Can you please attach the file with ".xls" extension? I am somehow not able to open the ".xlsx" format. If I open it I get some cryptic information.
Sorry. The attached file was in MS Word 2007. Reattaching the file with older version of MS Word.
Attached Files
File Type: xls sedan_buyers_guide_2011_2.0.xls (208.0 KB, 504 views)
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Old 11th May 2011, 19:22   #389
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Default Re: Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking

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Sorry. The attached file was in MS Word 2007. Reattaching the file with older version of MS Word.
Thank you Bigwheelz. I can now open it. Also Thanks to Smartcat for taking all the pains to bring it to this level. Will go through & add my bits.
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Old 16th May 2011, 13:04   #390
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Default Re: Sedans Under Rs. 12 Lacs - A Quantitative Ranking

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Sorry. The attached file was in MS Word 2007. Reattaching the file with older version of MS Word.
Guess, you are referring to MS "Excel" instead of "Word", considering the "xls" extension.

Many thanks smartcat for such a wonderful effort! Take a bow! Just test drove the Optra Beast, and found it such a hoot to drive. Just wish had the budget to buy one immediately. Suspension is also top notch.

Guys, would it make a sensible buy at 6 to 7 Lakhs for a three year old 30000 km used? Thanks in advance.
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