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Old 23rd December 2008, 22:59   #46
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Hi, How about some shots of the rear suspension? Can you explain where the rear axle came from and how to adapted it to coil springs suspension.
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hey thanks for the nice words guys. A car with no doors and no roof with wheels sticking out does not fit into the realm of a 2 seater roadster as far as ARAI is concerned :-)
Doesn't Bothe offer his 7 replica for sale? Isint the Mahindra classic also a doorless, cloth roof car with semi exposed front wheels. Bajaj Autorickshaw is even worse.
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Old 23rd December 2008, 23:14   #47
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hey thanks for the nice words guys. A car with no doors and no roof with wheels sticking out does not fit into the realm of a 2 seater roadster as far as ARAI is concerned :-)
Hey just an idea from my twisted mind. How about you send the car to Arai claiming it as an imported car and asking for an emission certificate. Like Bharat stage 3.. If you get one, then you can show that certificate to any officer who wants to check documents. Or, file a case in the court against ARAI and it will take years as it is against a government body. In that time you can start selling your cars as test models. You can charge a reasonable price, and sure people will buy it for fun. If anyone ask, you can always show the emission certificate and claim it as for testing.

good luck on your venture.
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Old 23rd December 2008, 23:22   #48
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hey hi,
the rear can be a live axle adapted from any front engine rear wheel drive vehicle set up. U have to strip the original live axle of any mounts and protusions and weld new brackets on the same to bolt the coil over shocks onto. then comes the part where u need to attach 2 parallel trailing arms between the axle and the chassis on each side and finish it with a panhard rod to negate any lateral movement. referred to as a multi link non indpendent suspension setup. Unfortunately in India there are very few rear wheel driven cars with independent suspension set ups to borrow the differential from, hence the use of the live axle. what is available for the IRS (independent rear suspension) setup is frightfully expensive, like a mercedes or a honda CRV diff.
i don't know how to upload pics here, so let me know your mail ID and i'll try and send some across to you.
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Old 23rd December 2008, 23:35   #49
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we thought of doing that actually :-), building it here and showing it as an import, but ARAI wants proof of import before they accept the vehicle for any kind of approvals. the import also has to be over $40,000 to avoid the entire homologation process.
on another point regarding Guido in Alibaug. i'm not sure if the cars are entirely road legal but i'm in no position to comment on the same for you. from what little knowledge i have about his conduct on the matter is that the cars are registered as modified herald chassis. because it fits the bill of a 2 seater front engine rear wheel driven vehicle.
The Mahindra jeep falls under a different segment of motor cars to which the rules applicable are slightly different (mentioned in the Motor Vehicles Act) The manufacturer of the chassis and body can be 2 different entities, as is in the case of luxury buses and other kinds of heavier vehicles.
no one has yet tried supplying chassis to these class of motor vehicles separately and had the coach building outsourced. There were again legal issues which would be almost impossible to get around.
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Old 24th December 2008, 17:11   #50
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The guys there are clueless about a vehicle simply described as a 2 seater open top roadster. The body style will never be approved as it doesn’t fit anywhere in the standards set by the Motor Vehicles Act
How did the (dreadful) San Storm convertible get ARAI / RTO approval then?

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i don't know how to upload pics here
Look up our very detailed FAQ!
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Old 26th December 2008, 10:05   #51
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Hi again,
San Storm went the whole 9 yards and set up a factory in Goa and registered themselves as Car Manufacturers building cars in excess of over 500 per year (u are not recognised if you manufacture below a particular number) The problem here lies that they were dealing with a small segment. A lot of money (a couple of crores if i'm right) was spent in just getting the cars homologated. cars like these will never get close to attaining those numbers. so break even costs don't negate that early. that coupled with a bad marketing stategy was a recipe for disaster.

everytime a new norm is passed in the automobile industry, san storm had to adopt the change and send it back to ARAI for approval once again. that costed a lot of money too. a company like Caterham has a worldwide sale of around 500 cars/year. what we need in the country like in other nations is an ammendent to the Motor Vehicles act which allows individuals to build one offs and have them registered with some basic tests involved. without incorporating expensive crash and impact tests since the car is not built for mass production.

the UK has the SVA, the US has one too, Malaysia, South Africa and China, all have ammendments for low volume manufacturers, for example Australia has the LVLP (Low Volumne Low Production) in which you are allowed to sell cars if your worldwide manufacturing is under 500 cars per year and your usage in Australia would be between 25-100 cars, without rigorous testing and tons of money for approval. for manufacturing below 25 they have even more relaxed rules. They allow imports of un assembled kits and owners can assemble them, dunk their own engines and register the same.


unfortunately so is not the case here. from one perspective its a good thing cause otherwise you'd have every garage guy building one and not having any guarantee on its basic build quality. In a way its bad becuase it is stunting the growth of an entire industry which is filled with serious enthusiasts and guys who can do really great stuff with our low input costs and skilled labor.
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Old 26th December 2008, 13:24   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riziali View Post
The guys there are clueless about a vehicle simply described as a 2 seater open top roadster. The body style will never be approved as it doesn’t fit anywhere in the standards set by the Motor Vehicles Act
Quote:
Originally Posted by riziali View Post
Hi again,
San Storm went the whole 9 yards and set up a factory in Goa and registered themselves as Car Manufacturers building cars in excess of over 500 per year (u are not recognised if you manufacture below a particular number)
So then, it is a problem of homologation and not the car being a 2 seater roadster?

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that coupled with a bad marketing stategy was a recipe for disaster.
Not to mention, a terrible product!! Look up mine & Dippys review of the San Storm. Shoddy car to say the least.

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the UK has the SVA, the US has one too, Malaysia, South Africa and China, all have ammendments for low volume manufacturers, for example Australia has the LVLP (Low Volumne Low Production)
Whew, I bet. India is certainly not a country that welcomes enthusiast projects. And on the other hand, full-fledged manufacturers hardly make any great-to-drive cars. Thus, us petrolheads have to be content with soupin' and chipin' our mundane family hatchbacks / sedans.

Kudo's to your spirit, Riziali. May your tribe only grow. I hope that things get sorted one day (in the not too distant future) and we see a production run of your car.
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Old 26th December 2008, 19:14   #53
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the problem basically is that the guys at ARAI, based on the Motor Vehicles Act are not permitted to homologate this type of vehicle. That is: one with no doors, wheels outside the body, no bumpers, side exhaust, etc etc.
on the other side, if you are a certain Mr Singhania into the import export business with a particular turnover, then under EPCG benefits and also the fact the an ariel atom costs over USD 40000 (irrespective of the fact that it has no doors and the wheels are outside the body) you are allowed to import one without the necessity of undergoing homologation. Talk about promoting talent in your own country, the constituiton wants you to give your money to the foreigners. even though its possible to make the same available in india for almost half that price.
for that matter i guess an individual can also import a Caterham that costs over USD 40000 and have it registered here (since imports over USD 40000 don't require homologation), by paying the necessary import duties and excise applicable on import of new cars.

Last edited by GTO : 27th December 2008 at 10:23. Reason: No inappropriate words please
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Old 27th December 2008, 12:08   #54
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Why don't you start exporting it as a low cost alternative to the Caterhams. Perhaps that way you can atleast sustain the activity till the lawmakers here in India open things up for local use.

Create a website and showcase your car in details. Perhaps people from abroad will show interest?
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Old 27th December 2008, 21:19   #55
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hey DKG
appreciate your thought on the export factor and its probably the only way forward for the time being. Been working on the same for a while now. thanks again for your support and input.
cheers
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Old 28th December 2008, 13:43   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riziali View Post
the problem basically is that the guys at ARAI, based on the Motor Vehicles Act are not permitted to homologate this type of vehicle. That is: one with no doors, wheels outside the body, no bumpers, side exhaust, etc etc.
on the other side, if you are a certain Mr Singhania into the import export business with a particular turnover, then under EPCG benefits and also the fact the an ariel atom costs over USD 40000 (irrespective of the fact that it has no doors and the wheels are outside the body) you are allowed to import one without the necessity of undergoing homologation. Talk about promoting talent in your own country, the constituiton wants you to give your money to the foreigners. even though its possible to make the same available in india for almost half that price.
for that matter i guess an individual can also import a Caterham that costs over USD 40000 and have it registered here (since imports over USD 40000 don't require homologation), by paying the necessary import duties and excise applicable on import of new cars.
Maybe you can make some changes in the design of the car so that it becomes fit for registration and then making those parts removable (i.e., bumpers, fenders, doors etc.) after regn.

A case in point being that the Tata's and Mahindra's premium pick-ups are registered as 11-seater MUVs by fitting seats in the loading bay so that they gain approval as a private vehicles. And then, the owners just get rid of those extra seats and get voila! a pick-up.
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