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Old 28th July 2010, 20:19   #256
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Originally Posted by harishnair View Post
The addition of ABS and Airbags will increase the price of the car thereby creating a negative vibe amongst the general public.Moreover, MSIL doesn't want the Alto to eat into the sales of its other products. Also as far as the competition goes,none of the other manufacturers in the segment provide these features.
GM has ABS/Airbag as an option in Spark. IIRC Santro has/had ABS as an option, I'm not sure though!!

Edit: Oh I think I took too much time to think about Santro ABS MutantX already replied to above!!

Last edited by HammerHead : 28th July 2010 at 20:22.
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Old 28th July 2010, 20:49   #257
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If Alto isnt provided/launced with ABS/Airbags then I am sure someone should ask "WHY" to MSIL. It would be funny to hear what they say!
It is a very fair question. Initially when I saw the speculated variant list even I asked "WHY", but when you come to think of it ,the very reason why Alto sells is because it is VFM car. So adding these features will only help to take away this cost advantage and even if these features are provided, all these WHYs wouldn't necessarily translate into actual sales.

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Originally Posted by blackasta View Post
Also - the very fact that Alto sells around 20K a month should have encouraged MSIL to take a small risk by introducing a top variant.
This is the very same reason why MSIL are skeptic about taking risks.Talk about irony of the situation.

From their POV the A-Star, Estilo and WogonR are there if a customer needs these feature so why take such a risk.

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Originally Posted by HammerHead View Post
GM has ABS/Airbag as an option in Spark. IIRC Santro has/had ABS as an option, I'm not sure though!!
Santro did come with ABS earlier but not anymore. Spark has ABS as option but it costs the same as A-star Zxi, WagonR Vxi (ABS) and Estilo Vxi (ABS).
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Old 28th July 2010, 20:56   #258
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Wow this sounds good, the days of the VXi would be back in a way

The alto's biggest drawback was power & they seem to have taken care of it with this new engine.

Hopefully now people wont have to switch off the A/c while climbing or when fully loaded
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Old 28th July 2010, 21:38   #259
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Originally Posted by longhorn View Post
The handling issue is something which I have felt in the Alto Lx after driving the M 800 5 speed. The 5 speed sits lower than you average 800 which does a world of good for its handling. While driving the Alto for the first time I too felt a bit uncomfortable carving corners on it when compared to the 5 speed but got used to it later. I guess the higher profile tyres are the main culprit here.

I hope they drop the height in the Alto K10 as that would boost the handling by a good measure.
My observation was with regard to the erstwhile Vx 1.1.

It had an extremely heavy steering, which would have made it very tiring for city (its natural habitat) use. And if you thought it would come into its own in carving up fast twisties, you were in for a shock. Its massive understeer would have put paid to that.

When I first took a TD, I was convinced there was something wrong with the car. I took two more test drives:- different car/ dealer. Results were the same. I ultimately bought the M800 5 speed. (Interestingly, I downgraded. My ride then was a Zen).

In my mind there was no doubt that the Vx had not been re-engineered for the extra weight. I hope that history does not repeat itself. In any case, I'm puzzled by the new weights.

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Old 28th July 2010, 21:40   #260
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Now I am forced to think, should I replace my Alto which is 2007 model with 40K done? the headlight looks tempting, I have driven my alto in almost all kinds of roads available in India, no Ghat fear factor, I know how it handels, with 13" Alloy, and a bigger engine, looks really hot for a old Alto owner
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Old 28th July 2010, 22:12   #261
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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
My concern is not with the power to weight. (and I sincerely hope it's not rationed!) I might be in a minority of one, but I think the Alto Vx was a half developed car. Pocket rocket - yes, but with a major handling issue. Also, traditionally Marutis have been undertyred, and ridiculously tall geared, in the interests of FE, and I suppose cost. Hope this time Maruti has done a more thorough job. Of defining their target clientele, and delivering a product for him.

Anyway, no point speculating with the launch just days away.
The handling of Alto is just about as good as the original Zen. Yes, the 1.1 is not good handler when you compare it with Zen or any driver's car, but its much better than what most of the cars like Wagon R, Estilo, Santro, I10 end up offering.

For such a small car that is not exactly that low slung + small wheelbase, the handling and stability is very nice. Also Maruti had undertyred the car as all cars from Maruti in that Era were undertyred.

The F10D Alto I had driven was good in handling. Just a few kms. and you instantly know what you can do with the car.
I am sure that this time Maruti makes required changes to suspension to bring handling level to original Zen.
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Old 28th July 2010, 22:32   #262
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Or in other words, a power-to-weight ratio superior to the 8 lakh rupee SX4

This car PROVES that you do NOT need to spend money to have fun. It's going to be a cheap pocket rocket. 0 - 100 = 11 seconds target for stock. Light build = immense chuckability. I've always respected the Alto for its road manners (as an entry-level car). All for what, 3.xx lakh rupees? Spend another 30K on better tyres, a performance exhaust, porting & polishing...you are easily looking at a 100 BHP / ton power to weight ratio. Brand new for < 4 lakh rupees.
Absolutely spot on, sir

I don't mind downgrading (or is it upgrading ) to the Alto Vxi from my i10 Kappa magna. Really

So much power is going unused just because Hyundai couldn't get the dynamics of i10 as most of us would have liked.
I ve already owned an Alto Lxi and i the only thing i missed was power to pull after i cross 80 km and i think 1L K-series would take care of that. We ve had so many fond memories of the Alto, and we surely dont mind going back once again

Why Vxi, because of additional creature comforts like Power windows, some rear wiper and things like that. Damn, 87 bhp / ton is almost on par with my 1.3 Swift-P!!!.

Seriously looking forward for this car.(and dont be surprsied if i end up buying one )

Last edited by Mi10 : 28th July 2010 at 22:34.
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Old 28th July 2010, 22:50   #263
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
The F10D Alto I had driven was good in handling.
With its massive understeer? Lets say we have different perceptions/ memories

Just a few kms. and you instantly know what you can do with the car.
Should be true of any car/ driver combination. But the Vx 1.1 could have been so much more with very little extra effort.

I am sure that this time Maruti makes required changes to suspension to bring handling level to original Zen.
As I said, no point speculating when launch is just a few days away. And Tbhpians eager to TD and report. Even GTO is interested!

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Old 28th July 2010, 23:11   #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
The F10D Alto I had driven was good in handling. Just a few kms. and you instantly know what you can do with the car.
I am sure that this time Maruti makes required changes to suspension to bring handling level to original Zen.
Alto breaks better than most of the cars specially in city (under 80kmph). Regarding handling drive a NON PS Alto and you will know how the tighter chasis of Alto is better than ZEN.
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Old 28th July 2010, 23:57   #265
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Originally Posted by harishnair View Post
It is a very fair question. Initially when I saw the speculated variant list even I asked "WHY", but when you come to think of it, the very reason why Alto sells is because it is VFM car. So adding these features will only help to take away this cost advantage and even if these features are provided, all these WHYs wouldn't necessarily translate into actual sales.
I kind of disagree!! When they can introduce a higher spec. engine in a VFM car that too already selling like a hot cake and selling it at slightly higher price with 0-100 in 13 secs. warrants safety features, at least optional. Don't you think so? Having driven Alto 1.1, I know for sure Alto K-Series will be a quick car. I mean why to leave it incomplete?

Quote:
From their POV the A-Star, Estilo and WogonR are there if a customer needs these feature so why take such a risk.
They always had overlapping products. Alto ABS/AirBags would have been just one more!

Quote:
Spark has ABS as option but it costs the same as A-star Zxi, WagonR Vxi (ABS) and Estilo Vxi (ABS).
Not really. If you forget about year round discounts on Spark, price of Spark with ABS+Airbag = these three with ABS only!
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Old 29th July 2010, 00:04   #266
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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
As I said, no point speculating when launch is just a few days away. And Tbhpians eager to TD and report. Even GTO is interested!
1) Understeer. After a limit all FWD are known to understeer. The Alto I drove had upgraded rubber. I have noticed that the Baleno we have in family is not as good handler when compared with Baleno with wider tyres.

Not sure about whats wrong but the understeer was not massive. Never had to lift off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhibh View Post
Alto breaks better than most of the cars specially in city (under 80kmph). Regarding handling drive a NON PS Alto and you will know how the tighter chasis of Alto is better than ZEN.
2) The chassis is tighter, but the feel is not as good as Zen. Zen had its own character that would be tough to match. And I am a big fan of motors that loves to be revved. Moreover Zen's 4 cylinder unit had better refinement than K10. But the K10 is improved in refinement part in Wagon R. IMO only engine is not as good as Zen in Alto, else Alto is near to becoming a good spirited small car. That's why Suzuki is coming up with K10 Alto.

3) Alto's dynamics are a real surprise considering the small size. One more thing I have noticed is that Alto's rear end wont step out easily under heavy braking. My friend had a nasty experience with Vista, but he was surprised at Alto's composure.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 29th July 2010 at 00:05.
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Old 29th July 2010, 00:10   #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
My observation was with regard to the erstwhile Vx 1.1.

It had an extremely heavy steering, which would have made it very tiring for city (its natural habitat) use. And if you thought it would come into its own in carving up fast twisties, you were in for a shock. Its massive understeer would have put paid to that.

When I first took a TD, I was convinced there was something wrong with the car.
In my mind there was no doubt that the Vx had not been re-engineered for the extra weight.
Regards
Sutripta
Thats not completely true, what you drove was a VX variant i.e. one without Power Steering, there was a variant called VXi (launched after a while) which had Power Steering & it had absolutely no issues with steering.

So with this new Alto the variant with PS wont have any issue also with the non-ps variant the problem should be less than the older VX as the new engine is lighter than the 4 cylinder 1.1 engine
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Old 29th July 2010, 10:35   #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technocrat View Post
Thats not completely true, what you drove was a VX variant i.e. one without Power Steering, there was a variant called VXi (launched after a while) which had Power Steering & it had absolutely no issues with steering.

So with this new Alto the variant with PS wont have any issue also with the non-ps variant the problem should be less than the older VX as the new engine is lighter than the 4 cylinder 1.1 engine
I don't know of the VXi, but the original version was a joy to drive. The steering was meaty and with such power, a heavier steering inspired more confidence. Those who remember the first PS versions of the original Zen (too light steering made that nervous on higher speeds) shall understand what I mean.
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Old 29th July 2010, 11:46   #269
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The new Lxi and Vxi of Alto K10 is good for car enthusiasts. Voulmes may be doubt. The current Alto Lxi is is 3.45 L in Bangalore. The new K10 Vxi may touch 4 L in Banaglore and for that price band you will get other big hatches
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Old 29th July 2010, 13:28   #270
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I am all for a ZXi version with airbags & ABS and don't mind paying extra for that.
But to say that Spark or Santro offers ABS/Airbags in their top version and so others should is like saying that "Safari comes in petrol" so all SUVs should give a petrol option. How many buy it ? Infact most of the Spark sales is the LS version. Very few go for the LT and almost none for the OptionPack having Airbags and ABS.

Nissan has shown the way by having Airbags (and ABS also?) as standard in all trim levels. But in a cut-throat market where ignorance of safety features is the norm, IMO this would only bite them inspite of the good intent. Buyers would say "Who needs airbags?" and go for the competition that is priced lesser for similar variant due to not giving safety features.

The right way would be for the Govt to enforce safety features. Like it is mandatory to have seat-belts on all cars, they should make it mandatory for all cars to have airbags. Only then will we have a level playing field.
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