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Old 26th October 2005, 10:14   #16
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Quote:
pros of the lancer
equally Fuel efficient
You must be kidding right??

The NHC is atleast 1.5-2 Kmpl more FE than a Lancer, both in the city and on the highway. (FE is practically the only outstanding attribute of a NHC.THe Honda engineers have worked overtime to choke the throttle response . People get 13-14 in city with the NHC)

Quote:
low NVH levels while driving compared to the city
Nope, i think the NHC is just as silent, if not more- compared to a Lancer.

Quote:
refined engine keeps up with the baleno and is more driveable in the city with flat torque
Out of the three the Baleno is the easiest to drive in the city bcoz of the low end torque.

The cheap lancer is the one with Euro II emission norms. Buying that will hurt the resale.

Also THE NHC has the highest resale value w.rt the other 2 i.e Baleno and Lancer.

Last edited by imjimmy : 26th October 2005 at 10:25.
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Old 26th October 2005, 10:39   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imjimmy
Also THE NHC has the highest resale value w.rt the other 2 i.e Baleno and Lancer.
Ok lets try to quantify the resale value thingy ..

Say these 3 cars are bought in Jan 2006.

Lancer LX (OTR around 7.5L), Baleno VXi (6.8 L), City ZX Exi (7.3L)

- All BSIII models
- Assumed these models as they are priced near to each other
- Assumed current discount scenario
- Assume that these cars will be sold after 5 years (2011)
- Assume all 3 models/versions will be phased out by then
- Assume loads of new car launches in the next 5 years with more features at the same price point
- Assume BS XX norms to be in place by then

What could be their resale value after 5 years ?

My guess would be between 2 to 3 lakhs for each .... and if it is so, then the resale value should NOT be a deciding factor in the purchase decision for a person planning to keep the car for 5 years or more
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Old 27th October 2005, 00:40   #18
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here is the award presented to mitsubishi lancer in 2005 by autocar.

http://www.autocarindia.com/new/Road...1284&Type=COTY

here is the performance review by bsmotoring to clear your doubts about the engines capabilities agaisnt the 1.5 OHC(It is quicker than baleno)

http://www.bsmotoring.com/1999/99aug07_1.htm


Now see my comparsion chart on the first page again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shuvc
Well , I actually got tired of waiting for some official ad from MUL .. hence I wrote to them regarding the changes .. MUL responded and said that the VXi changes are (as already discussed in the New Look Baleno thread) ... Climate control AC, 185/65 R14 tubeless, MP3/CD player + the tail lamp wish wash
So I guess, feature wise, the VXi is now fully loaded when compared to what one gets in a Lancer and the City (both at a slightly higher price i.e. more than 7L OTR. Baleno is <7L OTR).
Note here that I am talking in terms of a price point, so the Optra is not in the picture.
lancer has the 14" wheels but they give 13" wheels as it gives the car a better ride. I consider this as an added advantage as you can get your own choice of rubber like michelin tubeless 16". In baleno its hard to go above 14" due to the smaller wheel arches. BUt is an equal possibility in all the 3 cars hence I kept it aside from comparision.

And if u keep the few advantages baleno has over lancer the laner is still a clear winner. just have a look at the comparo.(honestly I have done it without any partiality)

Quote:
Originally Posted by imjimmy
You must be kidding right??

The NHC is atleast 1.5-2 Kmpl more FE than a Lancer, both in the city and on the highway. (FE is practically the only outstanding attribute of a NHC.THe Honda engineers have worked overtime to choke the throttle response . People get 13-14 in city with the NHC).
I am myself a lancer owner and get better FE figures than those mentioned by many NHC owners here. Honda has a new engine but mistubishi engine is excellent and refined(take any mag issue and they are always all praises about the engine). but many other lancer owners report less FE hence I said equal mileage to keep the competition fair. ANd dont forget the performance advantage here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by imjimmy
Nope, i think the NHC is just as silent, if not more- compared to a Lancer.).
Hey I have driven the NHC myself. The engine gets harsh if revved which is known to all.lancer engine is well insulated and sound proofed. WHile city's engine is certainly not bad the engine noise advantage here is relative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by imjimmy
Out of the three the Baleno is the easiest to drive in the city bcoz of the low end torque.

The cheap lancer is the one with Euro II emission norms. Buying that will hurt the resale.

Also THE NHC has the highest resale value w.rt the other 2 i.e Baleno and Lancer.
The lancer has a flatter torque. I have driven my lancer in 5th at 25kmph which baleno certainly cannot do. My due respects to the baleno engine though which is also a gem in its own way.

for BSIII look below. resale value for bsII is always a bit lower than the OHC and acceptable. OHC vtec 2003 model is 5.75 and lancer sfxi 2003 is 5.25. Both retailed almost at the same price.

do keep in mind the disadvantages but also look at the advantages. Baleno or NHC will never give you that pride a lancer will give you(ask any lancer owner and you will know. for more details just have a look at the "april 2005, lancer review post") See how much you gain and how much you loose in the comparo chart on the first page.


Quote:
Originally Posted by shuvc
Ok lets try to quantify the resale value thingy ..

Say these 3 cars are bought in Jan 2006.

Lancer LX (OTR around 7.5L), Baleno VXi (6.8 L), City ZX Exi (7.3L)

- All BSIII models
- Assumed these models as they are priced near to each other
- Assumed current discount scenario
- Assume that these cars will be sold after 5 years (2011)
- Assume all 3 models/versions will be phased out by then
- Assume loads of new car launches in the next 5 years with more features at the same price point
- Assume BS XX norms to be in place by then

What could be their resale value after 5 years ?

My guess would be between 2 to 3 lakhs for each .... and if it is so, then the resale value should NOT be a deciding factor in the purchase decision for a person planning to keep the car for 5 years or more
.
at current discount scenario assume you will get the lancer at teh highest discount.

as you said all three models will be phased out by then, just try to evaluate which car has the best imageas of now.

also evaluate if you can the pride that you are yet to get in owning a lancer.(only a OHC or a lancer owner can tell you this).

and when the resale value doesnt amount to much then I certainly would buy a car that is a drivers car. read the whole road test from the link above and you will know.




hence I say lancer is better. Look at the how it outnumbers the advantages against the other two cars.

Last edited by devarshi84 : 27th October 2005 at 00:48.
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Old 27th October 2005, 12:32   #19
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True one should buy a drivers car .. at least people who enjoy driving.

My primary intent was to identify the tangible features that one gets in these cars (primarily Lancer and Baleno) and at what price.

Requirements - For use in the city (rpm hovering between 2000 to 3000, max speeds around 80-100kpmh, short bursts) with very infrequent rear seat occupancy. These are probably the features that would be considered.

1. Price - BSIII Lancer is 40K more on road at Kolkata, considering current deals. Add another 20/30K if one wants it with bigger tyres, alloys and MP3 player.

2. Tyres and wheels - 175/80 R13 steel wheels vs 185/65 R14 alloys

3. Maintenance costs - Higher for Lancer I guess

4. Engine - Both have their plus points. Both are driveable. Evens out.

5. FE - Even stevens

6. AC - Baleno (climate control)

7. Reliability - V. Good for both

8. Audio - Kenwood Cassette player (confirmed this yesterday) vs MP3/CD player

9. Ride - Even stevens

10. Handling - Lancer is better here but by how much ? Would one really feel the difference between the two , in predominantly city use with minimal hard cornering etc ?

11a. Looks and Image - Though subjective but the Lancer would get most votes (I personally don't give too much importance to this factor for purchasing a car). For people who do, this feature would be much much higher up in the list.

11b. Spoiler ! - Not that one needs it, but the Baleno has one.

12. Modifications - Have not considered this too, since then one can compare the Baleno LXi with the Lancer and the price difference will go up significantly.

13. Resale - I had intentionally taken an example of 2006 - 2011. The resale market of cars for the next 5 years will be quite different to that from say 2000-2005, simply due to more options and a variety of quality cars, as opposed to one or two good models during the beginning of the decade. Anyways, as I mentioned earlier, lets not consider resale here.

Finally, this post is not to pass a judgement on which is a better buy, since the factors influencing a purchase differ from person to person. It is just an attempt to list out the features that are primarily considered for a purchase. Have I missed out any ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by devarshi84
The lancer has a flatter torque. I have driven my lancer in 5th at 25kmph which baleno certainly cannot do.
PS: I managed to do 20-25 in 5th in a Petra 1.6 ELX too ! Smooooth !
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Old 28th October 2005, 03:18   #20
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Baleno vxi BSIII is priced at 7.05(updated on 8th october) onroad at marutibaleno.com . Lancers price is 6.59 onroad so lancer is basically cheaper than both the baleno and the honda city(zx gxi is 7.56).


1. The price of the lancer is Lower and lancer is also a bigger car than baleno with a higher ground clearance and a longer wheelbase and longer dimensions.

2. you have already considered the price of 14" wheels above.

3. A .lancer has never been high on maintainence.PLus now you get a 3 year warranty where everything is taken care of including parts and maintainence with unlimited mileage. PLus HM just reduced parts prices by upto 60%. maybe a bit here or there but is competetive.

4-5 you answered it.

6. A/c of baleno sure is climatronic and cools fast but cools unevenly. My friend has a baleno and the front seat people are shivering but the rear ones are still sweating. plus the noise of the blower is audible. Lancer has rear ducts(just ducts no dual compressors here) but its cools evenly and the noise is hardly audible. so I say it evens out

8. again u have included the stereo in the high price.

9. Ride is very much better on the lancer. Sit yourself to confirm it. Lancer wins.

10. Handling again lancer wins. By how much?? well pit the EVO chassis against the baleno and decide for yourself. I dunno how much the 14" wheels will help the baleno though.

11. SPoiler not available on the LX . I dunno the company price so I will consider the after market price here. around 6--7k

12. modifications we can keep aside as not all owners will modify.

13. resale. as you said better kept aside as it doesnt matter much after 5 years.


so while lancer proves to be a better car overall against the NHC and the baleno, you are not paying less plus the discounts for a better looking,spacious, luxurious, prestigiouscar (lancer certainly looks more expensive and rich than a baleno) .This including the alloys,spoiler and stereo system.

, What will you buy then????
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Old 29th October 2005, 20:50   #21
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Well,
i gotta agree with Devarshi.
The price difference is 46K.
1. A set of GOOD LOOKING alloy wheels (Baleno's alloy wheels aren't exactly HOT) on 195/60R14 tubeless Goodyear Eagle Rubber - 20K After exchange.
2. Rear Spoiler which makes the car look better not worse - 7K max. (after market original lancer spoiler, not from the dealers).
3. MP3 Player - 4.5 - 5K after exchange
4. KnN filter (improves FE also) - 3.5K

So all this adds up to 35.5K.
You still have 10K in which you can get a free flow, really good speakers. If you want to take discount into the price factorial, i am sure lancer and Baleno have similar discounts + - 10K (which you save on a similarly specced lancer minus climate control but better average and response). And Mitsubishi's 3 year/50Kkm warranty which = total peace of mind.

Oh and yeah,
I have shifted from a Baleno fan to a lancer fan incase you guys are wondering.

Last edited by lamborghini : 29th October 2005 at 21:01.
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Old 1st November 2005, 04:14   #22
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and yeah mitsubishi's asset care program is a bonus.

so while you get your lancer at a cheap price with the remaining money get is modified for more power and looks.

btw just to not get much carried away. With the update just round the corner it is better to wait
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Old 2nd November 2005, 03:02   #23
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Compare feature to feature Baleno Lxi to Lancer Lx and not Baleno Vxi to Lxi...reason is simple...these models have similar features.
so lets compare features and not price...the Vxi model comes at at different price point to suit persons who like the additional features...and are willing to pay a premium for factory fitted features.


Now..the person who pucrchases a Lancer Lx compared to Baleno gets 6.5 cms more in length of car (4225 mm versus 4290 mm) (width is same @ 1690 mm)
1. Pays Rs 1.5 lakh more
2. Burns more fuel (Only by experience..most of the Baleno owners .and i own one too report between 12 to 13.5 kmpl in CITY driving)..no ACI figures available for Lancer Petrol..accoerding to ACI even the Baleno gives 13kmpl... lancer diesel give 13kmpl (avg of city+highway) but no Petrol figures are available (Petrol mileage is generaly lower than diesel for the same models..and my friends never quote more than 11.5 for their lancer petrols

3. Has lower pickup and generally is happy looking at the Baleno tailpipe unless he spends a forture moddign his car and in the proces voiding the warranty and peace of mind.

Power : Baleno / Lancer 1.6 litre / 1.5 litre and 94/85 BHP

according to ACI
0-100

Lancer 12.95 secs

Baleno 11.1 secs

Top Speed

Lancer 170 kmph
Baleno 185 kmph
Before you start quoting the usually subjective BS motoring comparo...please have a look at this thread too
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/showpo...&postcount=119
Stock Baleno was also faster in a test between OHC 1.5, Astra, Nexia, Baleno and Lancer...it had the highest top speed and had the smallest 0-100 time (guess 2001 June overdrive)

4. 3 year warranty is subjective but with the Baleno too you can have a 4 year / 80 k warranty by paying Rs 4 k extra.

5. Ride : Subjective...but Baleno is not a bonejarring ride...far from it in fact. And the lancer I rode recently (Taxi though) did not have a very good ride..and 3 in rear was pretty cramped too.

6. Handling...: Baleno is pretty good in handling...Lancer might be better here but then where is the power so sorely required to take it to the handling limits

7. NVH : Lancer might be more silent here..Baleno's Aluminium engine (compared to the cast iron block of the lancer) has a metallic tone to it...music to some ears...whine to others..however it is only when revved hard

8. Resale...if you pay Rs 1.5 lakh less upfront...after 5 years you should get at least 3 lakh rs more in Resale in Lancer just to get even!!!! so if the Balno gets you 2.5 lakh Rs after 5 years...will the lancer fetch you 5.5 lakh???

9. Looks : Agree that lancer looks better to me at least...but then again...not a big criteria for me..in fact Balenos also look gr8 if in black with alloys and 14'' rims...

10. AC: Balneo AC is good....period...and you really dont require vents for the rear seat passengers for them to feel cool..believe me I dont even have sun film in my car...it is that good...Lancer AC is good too but believe Baleno is better.

11. Talking of mods...Balenos have been winning rallies of late..how many lancers have been doing that???

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2001/20010818/sports.htm
race
http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanh...27192005530.asp

http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/.../08/08/&prd=th&

http://mai.co.in/results/2004/keral...ation%20ss1.pdf

To quote Overdrive
http://www.overdriveindia.com/art_d...sports&code=145
"Pace wasn’t a problem with the Baleno and on the only trouble free outing for the car Karandip Singh went on to win the K-1000 rally beating the Hondas. "

Stock Baleno was also faster in a test between OHC 1.5, Astra, Nexia, Baleno and Lancer...it had the highest top speed and had the smallest 0-100 time (guess 2001 June overdrive)

Last edited by Buffetfan : 2nd November 2005 at 03:09.
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Old 2nd November 2005, 03:13   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamborghini
Well,
i gotta agree with Devarshi.
The price difference is 46K.
1. A set of GOOD LOOKING alloy wheels (Baleno's alloy wheels aren't exactly HOT) on 195/60R14 tubeless Goodyear Eagle Rubber - 20K After exchange.
2. Rear Spoiler which makes the car look better not worse - 7K max. (after market original lancer spoiler, not from the dealers).
3. MP3 Player - 4.5 - 5K after exchange
4. KnN filter (improves FE also) - 3.5K

So all this adds up to 35.5K.
You still have 10K in which you can get a free flow, really good speakers. If you want to take discount into the price factorial, i am sure lancer and Baleno have similar discounts + - 10K (which you save on a similarly specced lancer minus climate control but better average and response). And Mitsubishi's 3 year/50Kkm warranty which = total peace of mind.

Oh and yeah,
I have shifted from a Baleno fan to a lancer fan incase you guys are wondering.
Please compare this model to the Baleno Lxi...and see how your calculations change
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Old 2nd November 2005, 03:40   #25
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NOw that you have stated that the baleno vxi has more features than the lancer lx, can you please list some of them here.(14" wheels, spoiler,mp3 player and key less entry are taken into consideration at an extra cost already) NO lancer vx exists anymore for your information.

lxi doesnt have a stereo system et al,no seat height adjuster,no power antenna, no keyless entry, no spoiler and no alloy wheels. have a look here.

http://marutibaleno.com/comparisons.asp

please have a look at the thread "my take on Baleno, NHC and lancer" for a more detailed comparo.

1. pays the same(lancer was 6.59 but lets consider BSIII to be expensive and with inclusion of the above mentioned features, the prices comes to be the same as baleno@ 7.05(www.marutibaleno.com)

2 I receive 14kmpl from my lancer but I said equal mileage as both engines are equally capable.

3. Performance of both is almost the same. while ACI doesnt have the details have a look at the bsmotoring.com website for both baleno and lancers figures(I dont follow their figures but they are pretty efficient). And anyday lancer is as fun to drive as a baleno.

I have also given baleno a point more for its performance advantage though in my comparo in the above thread.

4. On Baleno you get the extra warranty but you have to pay for it plus you dont get the unlimited mileage asset care program. Additionally it is known that Lancer is better built than the baleno.

but still I have given both equal points on maintainence on the other thread.

5. Ride:- I never said Balenos ride is bad, But I like Lancer's comfort better.3 is cramped even in the baleno as well as NHC.

equal points given in my comparision.

6. Handling:- let me correct you that a good handling car is the one that is under control at high speeds(In a laymans term). While baleno is certainly good at handling lancer is ages ahead. This is where the performance gap opened by the 94bhp engine is closed.

lancer gets a point here in front of baleno.

7. NVH is usually too low to be compared in cars of this segment so I have not taken it into consideration. But even lancer has that sound which awaked the racer inside.Baleno engine is a noisy just in relation to the lancer engine.

8. for resale values look at my post. Baleno fetches less. details taken from www.jmdcars.com

9. baleno looks great in black and alloys agreed but will that match any decent coloured lancer in looks???????? ever had a look at the rear of the baleno??????

10. your baleno certainly has a better ac and the auto a/c on the new car gets even better. Lancer a/c is just good but dull to the baleno. BUt lets not forget the blower is a bit noisy(u must have noticed) and it cools unevenly at front and rear.

baleno is given a point here.

11. you talkin of modifications here dude. IN rallies that you have mentioned these are stock cars with company backing. Mitsubishi stopped backing lancers way back when modified class was removed. Till then these same 1.5 lancers even kicked the vtec (its true) and won all the rallies. query this to that same mag and they will tell you this. nothin can beat a modded lancer beacause it has got the handling to match.

with agreeing to your most points look at the comparo. The lancer still makes a better car with more points.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8327 (My take on the NHC, Baleno & lancer)

Last edited by devarshi84 : 2nd November 2005 at 03:42.
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Old 2nd November 2005, 13:31   #26
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my question is that when you are talking of extra cost...why are you then comparing vxi to lancer..compare the Baleno Lxi model to Lancer (add whatever the lancer offers as an additional cost) and then you will see how the cost quation changes...
the top end models are never VFM..not right to compare the VXi VFM of one model to the Lx of another
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Old 2nd November 2005, 18:19   #27
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i dont know how much lancer is priced in the other metros but in hyderabad there is only one showroom of lancer and is being shared along with premier auto
SUREKHA AUTO is right after seeing dev fight for lancer so much i can only say onething the prices the surekha auto has quoted is wa way beyond imagination
he quoted for 1.8 L Petrol automatic a price tag of 9.3laks and for lx deisel 9.04 and forget 1.5petrol he was quoting 8 change (all the prices are on road prices) forget baleno it can beat a scorpio in rates as well I am not spamming, dear i was with aadix at the showroom
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Old 2nd November 2005, 22:56   #28
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8L on road. That is what we paid for as COMPANY REGISTERED car in Mumbai, after finance and BETTER TYRES.
btw BUFFETFAN,
According to ACI, the difference b/w the lancer and baleno's FE is just 0.1 kmpl in the baleno's favour.
Trinadha,
the 1.8L auto is a real rip off agreed but the prices quoted for the 1.5 were really high.
Oh and the LX in the lancer does not qualify it directly to the base model. We are talking price wise where it compares to Baleno VXi.
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Old 3rd November 2005, 01:30   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffetfan
my question is that when you are talking of extra cost...why are you then comparing vxi to lancer..compare the Baleno Lxi model to Lancer (add whatever the lancer offers as an additional cost) and then you will see how the cost quation changes...
the top end models are never VFM..not right to compare the VXi VFM of one model to the Lx of another

there is no vxi option for lancer and many option not available on lxi cannot be upgraded, hence the price options. Even if you do the price will be equal to the lancer lx


Quote:
Originally Posted by trinadha

i dont know how much lancer is priced in the other metros but in hyderabad there is only one showroom of lancer and is being shared along with premier auto
SUREKHA AUTO is right after seeing dev fight for lancer so much i can only say onething the prices the surekha auto has quoted is wa way beyond imagination
he quoted for 1.8 L Petrol automatic a price tag of 9.3laks and for lx deisel 9.04 and forget 1.5petrol he was quoting 8 change (all the prices are on road prices) forget baleno it can beat a scorpio in rates as well I am not spamming, dear i was with aadix at the showroom
boy thats a lot of money!!!! did u ask sureka about the price difference between the 1 advertised by HM and the 1 they quoted? wow guess what price he must be selling before the 93k discounts. now I know why lancer sales are low. The dealers in many places suck. Ask him what premium he is charging and why.

1.8 should be and will be a bit expensive(atlest 70-80k more) but is worth the autobox.

the prices I have mentioned are all ex-showroom and from their respective websites.
1. lancer advertised nationally by HM(www.lancerinindia.com)
2. Honda city zx gxi (www.hondacarindia.com)
3. maruti baleno vxi (www.marutibaleno.com)

Now I dont understand the reason for the dealer to quote such a drastic price.


PS:- I am not a lancer fan, I like the car better than the competition it is in right now which the comparo proves.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lamborghini
8L on road. That is what we paid for as COMPANY REGISTERED car in Mumbai, after finance and BETTER TYRES.
btw BUFFETFAN,
According to ACI, the difference b/w the lancer and baleno's FE is just 0.1 kmpl in the baleno's favour.
Trinadha,
the 1.8L auto is a real rip off agreed but the prices quoted for the 1.5 were really high.
Oh and the LX in the lancer does not qualify it directly to the base model. We are talking price wise where it compares to Baleno VXi
.

proof of the prices I gave. Lamborghini got the car for 8.00. Less 93k discount from HM makes it 7.07 on road and that is with the extra accessories (tyres,spoiler,keyless and maybe mp3)

Last edited by devarshi84 : 3rd November 2005 at 01:38.
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Old 3rd November 2005, 04:28   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trinadha
i dont know how much lancer is priced in the other metros but in hyderabad there is only one showroom of lancer and is being shared along with premier auto
SUREKHA AUTO is right after seeing dev fight for lancer so much i can only say onething the prices the surekha auto has quoted is wa way beyond imagination
he quoted for 1.8 L Petrol automatic a price tag of 9.3laks and for lx deisel 9.04 and forget 1.5petrol he was quoting 8 change (all the prices are on road prices) forget baleno it can beat a scorpio in rates as well I am not spamming, dear i was with aadix at the showroom
additionally Shuvc got a quote from the kokata dealer for the BSIII lx model which costs 38000 more. The on road price with spoiler,14" wheels mp3 stereo and keyless entry at 7.27 onroad.

check out this link too

http://www.rediff.com/money/2005/oct/24hm.htm
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