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Old 2nd April 2012, 22:51   #31
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

The way I see it,
1) There will be more accidents - People will be concentrating on the speedo rather than the road. Slow driving does not mean safe driving.
2) Govt will make a great deal of money.
3) Govt is using the money of taxpayers to issue chalan only to taxpayers.

There can be a lot of other initiatives that can actually improve the sanity of our road conditions. Like clearing off auto and cabs parking at the side of the roads. Authorize only those PUC that really check for pollution. Reduce excise for cars with airbags/ABS. Impound trucks, buses & cars without functioning brake light. And so on.

Imposing speed limits in not the solution. It never is.
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Old 2nd April 2012, 23:42   #32
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

I think in Addition to speed limits they must enforce traffic discipline on Highways like preventing driving on wrong side, trucks hogging right most lane etc.

If an Audi hits a villager on a TVS50 Moped (Moped on worng side of the road), the Audi driver must be let go scott-free even if the Moped rider dies in the accident.

Till this point, i feel we must just bite our teeth and follow traffic rules even if 20 kmph is implemented on Bangalore NICE Road. Indian govt is too corrupt and in the Indian Judiciary is too slow inn making a judgement so instead of trying to sue the Delhi Police, i might as well bite my teeth and take it meekingly.

It will take ages for the Govt to mature and probably our grandchildren will get to use infrastructure that is maybe 50% of what US / UK has right now. Anyway the indian govt cares(pretends) to care only for Agricultural / Lower classes. There is not even one facility for middle class white moneyed Salaried tax paying people, forget the upper class. Everything other than a tractor and agricultural manure is considered a luxury by the government.
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Old 2nd April 2012, 23:54   #33
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

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Here in Kolkata they have these speed cameras at some places but not all the time. They are not fixed speed cameras. Recently I know someone was fined for driving at 62 Kmph while the speed limit at that particular road was 60 Kmph.

This is ridiculous. There should be at least +10% grace especially considering equipment error.

Moreover police should use speed cameras to curtail unnecessary speeding and not use them as source of income. In other words the cameras should not be hidden and even if they are not openly visible, there should be sign boards indicating speed cameras nearby. This is exactly what happens in other countries.

This would also help in another way. There could be places where only the board would suffice. Cameras need not be installed at all leading to money saved. (Not sure if this happens in other countries though )

What should be the speed limit? That is an entire different discussion but is as important as the speed cameras themselves. Proper study and research is needed.
EM Byepass, right? I got ticketed there for driving at 65 (at least that's what they claimed, I have my doubts, the road is in such pathetic condition it's difficult to drive at any speed there) the cop had the nerve to write "excessive speeding" as the violation on the ticket.
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Old 3rd April 2012, 01:03   #34
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

Whats interesting is that speed is often connected to dangerous driving. Satyendra Garg mentions that someone driving at or more than a 100kmph is certainly driving dangerously. Now while doing a 100kmph in and out of traffic is definitely dangerous, on a open road such as the NH8 or even the DND (to name a few roads amongst the many in Delhi which are broad and well-made) I personally dont seem to think its dangerous. Where it turns dangerous is when you have people running across the road in the middle of the median, bikers coming down the wrong way or autos even for that matter. While I agree that dangerous driving and drunken driving should definitely be clamped down on, I dont agree with the 50/60 kmph speed limits across the city. Reality needs to be brought into the perspective - how about making sure every who goes to get a license is taught to handle their cars and drive in a manner that ensures driving remains safe, no matter the speed or the road as well as making sure streets are well-lit and you dont have people with a death wish running blindly across roads or people trying to save 2mins by driving down the wrong side - there are a large number of other factors contributing to dangerous driving and it would certainly pay to deal with all of them, or most, rather than the most "obvious" ones.

However, has anyone noticed that all the pictures taken by the camera are of cars in the right most lane? Just something I noticed.

Anyway, I dont mean to offend anyone or create an issue; so I apologize if some people find what I say incorrect as I dont post that often, since sometimes small things tend to taken the wrong way. What I have said is just what I feel.

Last edited by anantnehru : 3rd April 2012 at 01:13.
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Old 3rd April 2012, 08:31   #35
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

It is a common trend i see across various forums. Whenever the government comes up with some rule or regulation which, while perfectly justifiable, may cause some discomfort to the free spirited "take no responsibility" way of life -- people always point out something else they could have done.

Eg. What about pot holes. What about black money/corruption/Kalmadi. Driving sense etc.

One really funny incident i remember. Helmets rule was being made mandatory in hyderabad. Some online junkie actually commented " You want me to wear a helmet, ok i will wear a helmet. But first all potholes should go.. only then.. " (more or less this was the gist)

My view: About high time we had this in Delhi. Too many lives are being lost to speeding cars and crazy bikers.
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Old 3rd April 2012, 08:57   #36
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

I sent across a link to Mr. Satyendra Garg, regardless of he reacting to this, he is sure to read it, so all the opinions will go to the man behind all this, let's hope for the best.
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Old 3rd April 2012, 09:02   #37
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

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Originally Posted by Mik View Post
One really funny incident i remember. Helmets rule was being made mandatory in hyderabad. Some online junkie actually commented " You want me to wear a helmet, ok i will wear a helmet. But first all potholes should go.. only then.. " (more or less this was the gist)

My view: About high time we had this in Delhi. Too many lives are being lost to speeding cars and crazy bikers.
Apples to oranges comparison? Helmets have been shown to prevent lives, by experts qualified. But the outer ring road has not been deemed safe at max 50kmph by a traffic engineer. The limit has been set arbitrarily.
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Old 3rd April 2012, 09:17   #38
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

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Apples to oranges comparison? Helmets have been shown to prevent lives, by experts qualified. But the outer ring road has not been deemed safe at max 50kmph by a traffic engineer. The limit has been set arbitrarily.
I am not comparing the two, per se. Its just an illustration of peoples' mentality.
As far as the figure being 50kmph or 55 kmph - that can be debated only by a qualified traffic expert. But, the need for this initiative doesn't go away.
Slower speeds will lead to lesser fatal accidents - i believe strongly.
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Old 3rd April 2012, 09:56   #39
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

Great start ! They should roll out it out across metros and enforce it strictly. The debate about the right speed limit can wait , first we ( as in us Indians) should be hammered to drive home the point that laws have to be obeyed and serious matters which can impact life and death cannot be left to the interpretation of the individual . Safety is paramount , the +/- 10 kmph of incremental speed limit is secondary . Every day I see so many people jumping traffic signals because (a) traffic police being not there (b)road being clear ( even though the signal is red) , etc and I see similar traits when I find people discussing stuff like stealing speed guns.
Fall in line , else get hammered by the police - we will only be disciplined by the strong arm tactics ! Too many lives and limbs are getting lost in the madness and most of the time its not the offender who suffers
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Old 3rd April 2012, 11:17   #40
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

Guys, speed cameras are indeed a great means for speed policing everywhere, and not only for us Indians. This part is actually beyond debate IMO. At the same time, why fix something that ain't broken?! By 'sensible' speed limit, I mean one that would be practicable, yet safe enough. E.g., I've never heard of any accidents on DND flyway due to vehicles travelling within the earlier speed limit of 80 kmph. It's always been due to extremely high speeds or due to vehicles moving in from wrong directions. Actually, with better policing means now available, there should be even less reason for speed limit reduction. This unwarranted reduction in speed limits coming concurrently with installation of hidden cameras almost smacks of a gleeful approach on the part of traffic police of having suddently gotten an effective stick to wield with which to beat the whole world. Or maybe, now that the stick is available, it's for increasing the traffic department revenue at the cost of incoveniencing the public.

Obeying the rules is beyond question. A 'dumb' citizen like me, who even avoids changing lanes and rarely honks despite prodding by co-occuptants, would do it all the time. But accepting apparently silly setup without subjecting it to critical understanding isn't a hallmark of an ideal citizen either.
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Old 3rd April 2012, 11:18   #41
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

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Originally Posted by Mik View Post
I am not comparing the two, per se. Its just an illustration of peoples' mentality.
As far as the figure being 50kmph or 55 kmph - that can be debated only by a qualified traffic expert. But, the need for this initiative doesn't go away.
Slower speeds will lead to lesser fatal accidents - i believe strongly.
yes, but fining people going 1kmph over limit will mean people start looking at speedo instead of the road, and this actually increases accidents. Every law needs to be applied scientifically, and not arbitrarily. Otherwise, it just increases the danger, than reducing it.
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Old 3rd April 2012, 11:57   #42
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

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yes, but fining people going 1kmph over limit will mean people start looking at speedo instead of the road, and this actually increases accidents. Every law needs to be applied scientifically, and not arbitrarily. Otherwise, it just increases the danger, than reducing it.
Exactly. And if they start fining people for driving at 1-10 kmph above the prescribed limit ( like in your case) then the effective speed would be even lower. Taking in account the error in the Car's gadget and the speed camera, one would have to drive at 40kmph at all times. And that would be agonizing.

Speeds have to be decided on a city to city, road to road basis. For instance in Bangalore speeds of 50kmph are decent since most of the day the roads there are jam pakced and one can hardly touch 50 also. But in Delhi the roads are much wider.
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Old 3rd April 2012, 13:56   #43
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

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In a perfect world, where limits are put by traffic engineers based on road safety, it would be sensible to follow speed limits. But they are often made by people with a MA in history who just cleared an exam(no offence to history majors, just an example). Would you get yourself treated for an ailment by somebody who is a phd in civil engineering?
This is what ails the speed limits in India(as well as west). They are taken as a source of revenue generation, not safety.
The end result?
Traffic police focus on this, and ignore many other dangerous offenses, and this eventually results in more accidents and chaos on road.....!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by oxyzen View Post
The way I see it,
1) There will be more accidents - People will be concentrating on the speedo rather than the road. Slow driving does not mean safe driving.
2) Govt will make a great deal of money.
3) Govt is using the money of taxpayers to issue chalan only to taxpayers.

There can be a lot of other initiatives that can actually improve the sanity of our road conditions. Like clearing off auto and cabs parking at the side of the roads. Authorize only those PUC that really check for pollution. Reduce excise for cars with airbags/ABS. Impound trucks, buses & cars without functioning brake light. And so on.

Imposing speed limits in not the solution. It never is.
So, we shouldn't follow speed limits becasue there are other offenders on road who are not caught by Traffic Police? it means we should wait and deosn't follow any rule till all is perfectly perfect on our roads. that is strange logic and twisted on that.

Not following rules/laws, thinking you are above law because your car is better, is also an offence and TP is trying to catch those. calling other "stupid" who doesn't follow rules and then doing the same is called "Hypocrisy".

Limits are everywhere in the world, I have driven in germany for long even they have the speed limts(which is 50kmph BTW in cities/populated areas and it doesn't depend on how wide or good the road is.)

we are saying these limts are set by unqualified people, and what makes us qualified to set the limits or say that this is wrong? and right limit is 80-90 beacuse that's what i can do!! no, i won't get treated my someone who isn't qualified but then i won't treat myself either!

It is source of income for TP!? yes/no, if you don't cross it, TP will be broke!
It is to bring fear and punishment for those who don't find any reward in following the rules or think all other are stupid.

and OT but having yellow for less than 4-5 sec. shouldn't hamper in anyway a law abiding citizen. yellow means "Ready to stop" and "Stop" if you can! and anyway i would stop even before it is going to trun "yellow" because people has already start coming from stopped traffic..even before it turns green for them and red for me.

Last edited by Suess : 3rd April 2012 at 13:58.
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Old 3rd April 2012, 15:24   #44
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

Government policies, laws and actions at many times are totally senseless. Two instances that I can cite are
a) Near chandivali in Mumbai, there is a 2 lane road (barely 1Km long) which leads to JVLR. On the footpaths along this road is a slum (encroachment.. illegal obviously). People usually drove on this road at 30-40kmph till a few months back when a car collided with a slum kid who was running across the road. The solution government implemented was that now on this road there are atleast 10 speed breakers (sharply rising ones which force you to slow down to less than 5 kmph). As a car driver, I pay road tax and other taxes that fund the footpath. Why then should I be punished with speed breakers rather than the irresponsible people illegaly residing on footpaths.
b) Pedestrians are not allowed on Bandra Worli sealink. Last year a lady asked her taxi to stop on the sealink, got out of it and started walking to absorb the beauty of the surroundings. While she was lost in her own thoughts, a car coming from behind collided with her. The police booked the car for rash and negligent driving. Why should the driver have been booked at all (car speed is immaterial )when pedestrians are not allowed on the sealink?
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Old 3rd April 2012, 16:01   #45
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

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Originally Posted by interest View Post
Government policies, laws and actions at many times are totally senseless. Two instances that I can cite are
a) Near chandivali in Mumbai, there is a 2 lane road (barely 1Km long) which leads to JVLR. On the footpaths along this road is a slum (encroachment.. illegal obviously). People usually drove on this road at 30-40kmph till a few months back when a car collided with a slum kid who was running across the road. The solution government implemented was that now on this road there are atleast 10 speed breakers (sharply rising ones which force you to slow down to less than 5 kmph). As a car driver, I pay road tax and other taxes that fund the footpath. Why then should I be punished with speed breakers rather than the irresponsible people illegaly residing on footpaths.
b) Pedestrians are not allowed on Bandra Worli sealink. Last year a lady asked her taxi to stop on the sealink, got out of it and started walking to absorb the beauty of the surroundings. While she was lost in her own thoughts, a car coming from behind collided with her. The police booked the car for rash and negligent driving. Why should the driver have been booked at all (car speed is immaterial )when pedestrians are not allowed on the sealink?
First, of course encroachment is wrong. but if they can't do anything about it; by speed breakers, they will likely to enforce traffic to slow down which should have done that anyway giving the encroachment and children playing/crossing the road.

And "Pedestrain are not allowed" doesn't mean you won't get punished for hitting them. you are driving the car/vehicle and it's your responsibilty to make sure that no one is dangered because of you, even if it is their mistake. as in this case, it was her mistake too, and she should have been punished for it.
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