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Old 3rd April 2012, 16:15   #46
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

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Originally Posted by teknophobia View Post
EM Byepass, right? I got ticketed there for driving at 65 (at least that's what they claimed, I have my doubts, the road is in such pathetic condition it's difficult to drive at any speed there) the cop had the nerve to write "excessive speeding" as the violation on the ticket.
Yep EM Bypass. There are a couple of spots on the bypass. One near the Ruby Hospital Crossing and the other after Beleghata Crossing.
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Old 3rd April 2012, 16:24   #47
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Originally Posted by Suess View Post
First, of course encroachment is wrong. but if they can't do anything about it; by speed breakers, they will likely to enforce traffic to slow down which should have done that anyway giving the encroachment and children playing/crossing the road.

And "Pedestrain are not allowed" doesn't mean you won't get punished for hitting them. you are driving the car/vehicle and it's your responsibilty to make sure that no one is dangered because of you, even if it is their mistake. as in this case, it was her mistake too, and she should have been punished for it.

While punishing someone, it is the intent which is taken into account. It wasnt the intent of the driver to go and hit the pedestrian. We have come across hundreds of incidents of people jaywalking and in the process sometimes even endangering vehicles (hard braking by one vehicle leading to a collision with the vehicle behind). In this case why should a case at all be registered against the car owner?

Regarding encroachment- first and foremost encroachments should be removed. As a tax paying citizen, I have a right to the footpath which has come up using my tax money. Are you saying that I should keep adjusting everytime and the government can keep wasting my tax contribution? If they cant do this soon enough, atleast they should not make life of motorists hell by putting 10 speed breakers (of any random specification) on a 1km stretch.

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Originally Posted by scopriobharath View Post
I think in Addition to speed limits they must enforce traffic discipline on Highways like preventing driving on wrong side, trucks hogging right most lane etc.

If an Audi hits a villager on a TVS50 Moped (Moped on worng side of the road), the Audi driver must be let go scott-free even if the Moped rider dies in the accident.
I completely agree. If people jump on railway tracks to commit suicide do we arrest the train driver? Instead we book the other guy for attempting suicide and may be also for trespassing. When then should the moped guy go scot-free?

Last edited by benbsb29 : 4th April 2012 at 05:18. Reason: Please use the Multi-Quote button to reply to more than one post. Also, use the Edit button when replying within 30 mins of previous post. Thanks.
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Old 3rd April 2012, 17:33   #48
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

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Originally Posted by interest View Post
While punishing someone, it is the intent which is taken into account. It wasnt the intent of the driver to go and hit the pedestrian. We have come across hundreds of incidents of people jaywalking and in the process sometimes even endangering vehicles (hard braking by one vehicle leading to a collision with the vehicle behind). In this case why should a case at all be registered against the car owner?

Regarding encroachment- first and foremost encroachments should be removed. As a tax paying citizen, I have a right to the footpath which has come up using my tax money. Are you saying that I should keep adjusting everytime and the government can keep wasting my tax contribution? If they cant do this soon enough, atleast they should not make life of motorists hell by putting 10 speed breakers (of any random specification) on a 1km stretch.
Booking is not the same as punishing . If any incident has happened , a booking depends on the judgement of the police on the gravity of the situation - punishment is the domain of the judiciary, registering a case is not the same as punishment . Even if the person was walking on the sealink and was hit by a car at 80 kmph , the driver is not absolved of his/her share of blame because there is a speed limit of 50 kmph .

Whether there is 1 or 10 speedbreakers .. first and foremost thing is to respect the law. If a motorist slowing down to 10 kmph means that one child's life is saved then its well worth it . Why should we as a nation be so shameless as to break rules and regulations without even a second thought ! Its become a rarity where we find motorists slow down at yellow lights and stop before the stop line - people zoom off on red lights when they see a clear path . Why is it so difficult to stop using our crooked brains and just follow the lights ? With all our self appointed expertise , I doubt how many of us who are expressing our thoughts about speed limits being high / low have even the basic qualification to comment on that ? Do we have the data on road surface , the banking , the traffic at various times of the day or are we happy shooting in the dark ?
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Old 3rd April 2012, 18:03   #49
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

speed limits have to be imposed, but they should have the following
1> A maximum which if exceeded by a particular margin is an offence and should be enforced
2> similarly there should be a minimum speed limit [this is the main reason why people speed, or why i disregard the speed limit... i'm driving on the expressway which has a speed limit of 80, but am forced to drive at 40 because of an errant group of drivers that refuse to give way for a faster vehicle and want to drive slowly]
3> there should be some sense to the speed limits... a speed limit of 50 on the Bandra Worli sea link is ridiculous in my opinion... it should be atleast 80...
4> The police should be trained in how to use the equipment at hand.... i heard of a case where a cop stopped a lawyer for doing 120 on a bridge in bombay somewhere, he appeared in court and asked for proof that the cop in question knew how to use the radar gun... the cop in question didn't know how to use the Radar gun... so the lawyer was let off...
5> if there are cars that cannot handle that speed, they should be banned from those roads, like tall vehicles are banned in underpasses as they are too tall, similarly padminis should be banned on roads where the speed limit is set at 100 km/h
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Old 3rd April 2012, 18:21   #50
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

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Originally Posted by souravc View Post
Booking is not the same as punishing . If any incident has happened , a booking depends on the judgement of the police on the gravity of the situation - punishment is the domain of the judiciary, registering a case is not the same as punishment . Even if the person was walking on the sealink and was hit by a car at 80 kmph , the driver is not absolved of his/her share of blame because there is a speed limit of 50 kmph .

Whether there is 1 or 10 speedbreakers .. first and foremost thing is to respect the law. If a motorist slowing down to 10 kmph means that one child's life is saved then its well worth it . Why should we as a nation be so shameless as to break rules and regulations without even a second thought ! Its become a rarity where we find motorists slow down at yellow lights and stop before the stop line - people zoom off on red lights when they see a clear path . Why is it so difficult to stop using our crooked brains and just follow the lights ? With all our self appointed expertise , I doubt how many of us who are expressing our thoughts about speed limits being high / low have even the basic qualification to comment on that ? Do we have the data on road surface , the banking , the traffic at various times of the day or are we happy shooting in the dark ?

Your arguement reminds me of one made by Lalu sometime when he said that I am not building roads in your village because if I make roads, fast moving vehicles will mow down your children. how often have you seen pedestrians use the zebra crossing or over head bridges to cross roads? The answer to this problem is not to make speed breakers all over the city. I havent seen so many speed breakers in countries like UK or even China. While the motorists in these countries follow rules, the pedestrians also have the basic civic sense to cross at a zebra crossing and when pedestrian light is green. The answer is certainly not to make unrealisticaly low speed limits and paint the town with speed breakers. Why dont we see cops ever fining jaywalkers?

Do we book the driver of a train if a person travelling on the roof of a train is electrocuted? the reason is because driver is not responsible if a passenger is doing something illegal and dies as a result. similarly why should a car driver driving patiently on the sealink be booked and hassled if the pedestrian shouldnt have been there in the first place.
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Old 3rd April 2012, 18:31   #51
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

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Originally Posted by Suess View Post
we are saying these limts are set by unqualified people, and what makes us qualified to set the limits or say that this is wrong?
Common sense I believe.
During peak hours yes 50kmph is fine but at midnight, when there are no cars around, cruising at 50 is ridiculous. The spped limits does not have any mathematical formuale, but if you draw a normal distribution of a sample, and then try to capture the upper 10% of speed limits, I believe it will be definitely more than 50 & that is what the limit should be.


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Originally Posted by Sprucegoose View Post
2> similarly there should be a minimum speed limit [this is the main reason why people speed, or why i disregard the speed limit... i'm driving on the expressway which has a speed limit of 80, but am forced to drive at 40 because of an errant group of drivers that refuse to give way for a faster vehicle and want to drive slowly]
Come back to reality mate!
Busses & cabs stopping at the middle of the road shouting for passengers. How many are you going to catch. And after you are done, what will happen to the common man without a public transport?
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Old 3rd April 2012, 19:19   #52
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

Note from the Team-BHP Support : Please avoid typing with excessive dots.........like................this. Thanks

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Originally Posted by oxyzen View Post
Come back to reality mate!
Busses & cabs stopping at the middle of the road shouting for passengers. How many are you going to catch. And after you are done, what will happen to the common man without a public transport?
No no I know of that, but I was referring to people, not necessarily cabs that drive at ridiculously slow speeds while refusing to move out of the fast lane.
This forces people who are going faster , but necessarily over the speed limit to overtake from the left, which is dangerous. How many of is will drive at 20 down marine drive at night because some douche wants to drive I front of you at 20 ?

Last edited by GTO : 4th April 2012 at 12:59. Reason: Please avoid using excessive dots like this ...... . Post edited for this time.
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Old 3rd April 2012, 20:03   #53
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

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Originally Posted by souravc View Post
.

Whether there is 1 or 10 speedbreakers .. first and foremost thing is to respect the law. If a motorist slowing down to 10 kmph means that one ay or are we happy shooting in the dark ?
I do slow down at a yellow/amber and stop before the stop line. In return I get complimented with expletives and dirty looks that could kill. I mean both and not one or the other. . Different matter though I myself sport an extensive repertoire of expletives courtesy my linguistic roots and return the compliments with equal enthusiasm.

On more serious note however I will submit as under:

[1] Rules need to be enforced. Not negotiable. So any development that aids in the endeavour is more than welcome.

[2] Rules need to be framed keeping in view the overall context i.e. road capacity available, vehicular density patterns at different times of the day, pedestrian safety etc etc. This involves scientific study. Has this been done? Not that I am aware of. We just have ad-hoc rules framed by people whose focus is NOT on doing their jobs well but deriving an economic rent for the uniforms they wear. Am sorry for making such a gross generalisation but this is my experience of nearly 31 odd years as a vehicle owner & driver.

Since I am venting please indulge me for one more rant - One gentleman who was a very high profile senior traffic police official was instrumental in enforcing meaninglessly low and unrealistic speed limits in the city. Now that he is a private citizen he is a votary for realistic speed limits etc etc keeping in view the capabilities of modern day vehicles etc etc. This kind of double faced duplicity is sickening to say the least.

So will this latest gig of DTP come to pass? But ofcourse! Contracts mean incomes, not just for the working class folks who are engaged in supplying the products/services covered by such contracts. Money to be made for every one in the food chain. Will this prove to be a nightmare? Most likely! Can we avoid it? I don't see how.

Last edited by RS_DEL : 3rd April 2012 at 20:06.
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Old 4th April 2012, 00:30   #54
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

Ive been doing some research on the topic. Here are some interesting facts I've found:

According to a US Dept. of Transport Study (Link here): On any given road, 85 percent of drivers travel at a speed that they find appropriate to the road, regardless of the posted speed limit. Some governments use this "85-percentile" average speed in setting their speed limits. Yet, according to a Federal Highway Safety Administration report " ... the majority of speed limits are posted below the average speed of traffic."


When drivers encounter speeds they find unreasonably low, some will travel at the lower speed. But if most stay at higher speeds, faster moving cars are constantly overtaking and passing the slower-moving ones. This increases danger to both vehicles, since danger increases as the speed difference between vehicles increases.

Furthermore, if highway speed limits are set unreasonably low and are enforced through tickets to speeders, more motorists opt for secondary local roads with similar speed limits. These roads may be more convenient or shorter, but they have an accident rate nearly twice as high and an accident-fatality rate between two and three times that of the main roads/highways.

Thirdly, when speed limits are so strictly enforced, instead of concentrating on the road ahead, most drivers (myself included) would tend to focus more on their speedometer to ensure they don't cross the 50 km/h barrier.

Thus, the net effect of reducing speed limits may actually increase the number of speeding drivers and serious accidents on all roads.
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Old 4th April 2012, 00:51   #55
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Originally Posted by interest

Your arguement reminds me of one made by Lalu sometime when he said that I am not building roads in your village because if I make roads, fast moving vehicles will mow down your children. how often have you seen pedestrians use the zebra crossing or over head bridges to cross roads? The answer to this problem is not to make speed breakers all over the city. I havent seen so many speed breakers in countries like UK or even China. While the motorists in these countries follow rules, the pedestrians also have the basic civic sense to cross at a zebra crossing and when pedestrian light is green. The answer is certainly not to make unrealisticaly low speed limits and paint the town with speed breakers. Why dont we see cops ever fining jaywalkers?

Do we book the driver of a train if a person travelling on the roof of a train is electrocuted? the reason is because driver is not responsible if a passenger is doing something illegal and dies as a result. similarly why should a car driver driving patiently on the sealink be booked and hassled if the pedestrian shouldnt have been there in the first place.
You know what common trait ties in the examples of the jay walker , motorist jumping signal, person getting electrocuted on top of a train and the guy jumping the speed gun - not accepting the rule and using one's own interpretation to suit one's own purpose ! Please do not compare Indian road conditions with that of Europe , China or North America - lets be realistic. Drivers in Europe stop for pedestrians , there pedestrians have natural right of way whatever be the signal - lets be practical in our expectations.
While one can have his/her own view on speed limits but if one value is set people should follow it . How are you well qualified to decide on how "realistic" is a speed limit? Otherwise what stops one from stating that there should be separate speed limits for ferraris, audis, mercs , Santros , 800s ,etc depending on how they handle! The debate may go on but as long as there is a value on the board as put up by the police, one has to abide by it - else strict enforcement through speed guns , merciless fines and possible imprisonment is the way to go .
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Old 4th April 2012, 10:56   #56
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

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Originally Posted by souravc View Post
You know what common trait ties in the examples of the jay walker , motorist jumping signal, person getting electrocuted on top of a train and the guy jumping the speed gun - not accepting the rule and using one's own interpretation to suit one's own purpose ! Please do not compare Indian road conditions with that of Europe , China or North America - lets be realistic. Drivers in Europe stop for pedestrians , there pedestrians have natural right of way whatever be the signal - lets be practical in our expectations.

You are bang-on when you say that the underlying problem is "not accepting the rule and using one's own interpretation to suit one's own purpose". My only problem is that why do police, govt, municipal corporation guys always take steps which inconvinience the guys on wheels. Why is it that you get fined for illegal parking but not for jaywalking?
Regarding comparison with Europe, US and the rest of the developed world all I can say is that people always aspire to get better and not remain stuck with status quo. Why else do you think that we want a better public transportation. If US and other developed world is different from India, let us not waste money on metro rail and flyovers and instead distribute it to the hungry people here. I am saying this only because it is very easy to suppress improvement by saying that our situation is not comparable to US. Why do we want everything to be online and faster? Why do we want better social security arrangement? And why even think about the UID project if the idea has emerged from developed countries (the implementation here would be even more difficult as we are different from them in terms of population size)?

The pedestrians in those countries dont jump on the road every 2meters. They have the patience to wait for the pedestrian lights to turn green. Have you never seen how people on London tube stand on one side on the escalators to let the fast moving people cross? that is basic civic sense and the solution is not to penalise the good guy by reducing speed limit. the solution is to instill some sense into the jaywalkers through a carrot and stick approach.
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Old 4th April 2012, 11:22   #57
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

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Originally Posted by souravc View Post
While one can have his/her own view on speed limits but if one value is set people should follow it . How are you well qualified to decide on how "realistic" is a speed limit? Otherwise what stops one from stating that there should be separate speed limits for ferraris, audis, mercs , Santros , 800s ,etc depending on how they handle! The debate may go on but as long as there is a value on the board as put up by the police, one has to abide by it - else strict enforcement through speed guns , merciless fines and possible imprisonment is the way to go .
Are you saying that everything that the government agencies do is sensible and common man should follow it without protest? Lokpal, Fuel subisidies, NREGA scheme, Food security bill, Retail FDI, Fertilizer subsidy, Mayawati's grand park, CWG games expenditure etc. are all pretty sensible right?
Yes, I am not at all qualified in terms of traffic/road engineering knowledge to comment on speed limits. But something tells me that I cant trust the speed limits put up by the people who -
a) award road contracts to the same corrupt contractors whose roads caved in barely 6 months after they constructed it
b) are busy challaning bikers for a broken rear-view mirror (and extracting bribes) instead of manning a traffic junction 10m away where a huge traffic jam is inconvincing people
c)dont know that making a 3 lane road suddenly single lane and then again 3 lane is not an example of good traffic planning (something so often seen in Bombay)
d) dig up road every other day for installing electrical, water, telphone lines instead of doing it all at once
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Old 24th April 2012, 00:41   #58
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

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What kind of logic is that? Across the world, speed limits have to be enforced, no one keeps below the limit just because a board says so.


Leave home 15 minutes earlier.


DTP is already unofficially condoning driving at speeds upto but not exceeding 60 km/h, where 50 km/h is the notified speed limit. On the NH8 the limit is 80 km/h. You need a helicopter to go any faster.


Are you suggesting that citizens and T-BHPians actually help and support your thoughts & ideas about theft? Grow up and learn to respect the law, not find shortcuts to work around them. You obviously don't earn yet, but my taxes pay for those cameras, so you had BETTER NOT STEAL THEM!!!
FYI the speed limit on NH-8 delhi gurgaon expressway is reduced to 70 kmph in delhi territory and once you enter gurgaon it is 90 kmph
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Old 26th April 2012, 16:05   #59
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Default Re: Speed Radar Guns & Cameras in New Delhi

Source: Facebook page of Delhi Traffic Police

Car being driven at 139 kmph in residential colony of Dwarka.

Why do they always show a Vento being driven at ridiculously high speed.
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Old 26th April 2012, 16:59   #60
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Default Re: Speed Radar Guns & Cameras in New Delhi

These things have had an effect.
I have noticed that 90% of the cars on DND stay around kph, while earlier the rate was more like 30%.
Even I have started to stick to the limits (Its highly frustrating though).
But till now I have not seen a single camera anywhere on Delhi roads, I travel mostly on the ring road, DND, the road from Lajpat to CP.

Where are all these cameras being put up anyways?
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