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Old 10th June 2010, 00:09   #166
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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
If you start thinking that way, Tata makes just one car.
Indica
Vista - Indica with some spit & shine
Indigo - Vista with a boot
Manza - Indica with a boot & some spit & shine
Yes. Its just one car with only body changes at the back.
But it was designed for India.
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Old 10th June 2010, 00:26   #167
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Originally Posted by airbender View Post
How often is it that you see a Honda as rental car in USA? As I mentioned previously Honda's sales for fleet are negligible.
I get a Honda/ Toyota sedan frequently when we rent unless it's a van. Also, we see more cabs using American brands or Toyota's coz of space, comfort, insurance, spares costs and ease of repairs. Honda does want to sell to car rental companies but its the companies that dont buy. FYI, Honda has the highest insurance rates of all brands keeping companies away.

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Originally Posted by airbender View Post
Only Tata and Mahindra make custom products for India. Not Maruti.
Add Force Motors and ICML to the list. Every Indian company will have a made for India product. Maruti is Suzuki after all. Dzire is a Made for India job but it's an exception.

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Originally Posted by karpusv View Post
Am not sure who, but someone did ask for this somewhere in this thread.

Attachment 364111

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It's surprising how the Indian mentality has turned to Diesel in just a few years even though they cost more to buy. I suppose awareness, newer technology and lower running costs are responsible.

PS: How come We dont see Force motors, ICML and Premier RIo numbers on the list? No sales or they dont disclose?
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Old 10th June 2010, 02:05   #168
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Originally Posted by devarshi84 View Post
I get a Honda/ Toyota sedan frequently when we rent unless it's a van. Also, we see more cabs using American brands or Toyota's coz of space, comfort, insurance, spares costs and ease of repairs. Honda does want to sell to car rental companies but its the companies that dont buy. FYI, Honda has the highest insurance rates of all brands keeping companies away.
I do not agree with you on most of the points. Honda's are cheapest to maintian(in USA) along with Toyota's. If you make a apples to apples comparision insurance on Honda's is not high. I know a lot indians here in USA from more than a decade who used Honda's and they rarely spend on repairs. Yes Honda and Toyota spares are little costly but again they rarely need them. The statement in bold is incorrect. You are the first one to say Honda's maintenance costs are high.

To all involved in this debate: Everyone except devarshi agrees honda's rely least on fleet sales. Is it wise to continue this debate?
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Old 10th June 2010, 02:37   #169
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debate?

Congratulations buddy. You win.

But do find out insurance and parts costs for competing cars online. Even better walk into an agents office in Miami.

Parts and maintainence doesnt work the same way in fleet sales as it does in personal purchases. Do check with rental companies why they dont keep Honda or Mazda if you can and post your details.

Last edited by devarshi84 : 10th June 2010 at 02:41.
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Old 10th June 2010, 02:43   #170
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Originally Posted by airbender View Post
How often is it that you see a Honda as rental car in USA? As I mentioned previously Honda's sales for fleet are negligible.
I agree with you. Getting a Honda as rental is almost impossible. Atleast in Northern CA. Here all companies have either Ford, Toyota or Chevrolet. Honda don't do fleet sales as much as other companies does.
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Old 10th June 2010, 03:19   #171
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Originally Posted by devarshi84 View Post
But do find out insurance and parts costs for competing cars online. Even better walk into an agents office in Miami.

Parts and maintainence doesnt work the same way in fleet sales as it does in personal purchases. Do check with rental companies why they dont keep Honda or Mazda if you can and post your details.
Last year I rented a honda at Miami airport. Does that mean Honda sells to fleet oparators? No. This rental had an agreement with local honda dealer. Often that's how honda fleet sales go. I have seen more suzuki's(orange county) than Honda's as rentals in USA. Atleast Suzuki's maintenance is higher than Honda's. For insurance, go check on state farm site, you will know it's not higher. The only reason Honda does not sell to rentals is that the profit margins are low. As I said earlier, you are the first person to say honda's maintenance costs are high.



Well, does it matter if one in a million has a different opinion?

Last edited by airbender : 10th June 2010 at 03:24.
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Old 10th June 2010, 07:40   #172
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Originally Posted by airbender View Post
I do not agree with you on most of the points. Honda's are cheapest to maintian(in USA) along with Toyota's. If you make a apples to apples comparision insurance on Honda's is not high. I know a lot indians here in USA from more than a decade who used Honda's and they rarely spend on repairs. Yes Honda and Toyota spares are little costly but again they rarely need them. The statement in bold is incorrect. You are the first one to say Honda's maintenance costs are high.
In the US, insurance cost typically is derived from a lot more than maintenance costs.
US insurance costs are very complex. The following stuff would affect things as much or more than the maintenance cost
- The age of the driver
- The sex of the driver
- The marital status of the driver
- The drivers past record
- The address of the driver
- How likely is the car to be stolen - they have data on which cars get stolen more
- How like is the car to be in an accident - they have data on which cars get in more accidents
- The drivers credit history

i.e. insurance costs are based more on how likely is an accident going to happen to you rather than cost of fixing the accident.

Also in a lot of insurance claims, the cost of spares of the car is not so imporant because of the following reasons. Let's say you own one of the cheap cars - say a Honda Civic or a Corolla. Now you get into an accident with a Mercedes Benz costing 3 times more than your car & it's your fault. Now say the guy in the Benz gets injured. Now this is what your insurance guy has to shell out
- Cost of repairing your car - 5000$
- Repairing the Merc - say 10000$
- Merc Guy is in hospital - say 10000$
- Merc Guy wife needs a rental for 10 days till the car is repaired - 1000$
- Merc Guy salary for those 10 days he can't go to work - 5000$
- Merc Guy's mental trauma cost - 10000$

Above figures are just indicative, but you will get the idea.

In the US, you can chose your 3rd party liability maximum when you are insuring your car & this figure affects your insurance premium a lot. Some people advise that you should chose a figure close to your networth to be your 3rd party liability maximum, because otherwise your life can be ruined by a car accident.

Say you chose a small 3rd party liability of say 50000$ to reduce your premiums. Now you get into an accident which is your fault. Assume the worst - you kill a young harvard law student. You may end up getting sued for a really lot of money (the guys earning potential for the rest of his life). Now the insurance will pay only 50000, the rest has to be paid by you. Killing a young harvard law student is the extreme - but think of all things in between a minor accident where only you are involved & where you kill a young harvard law student. IIRC, I used to carry a 3rd party liability of a quarter of a million dollars.

Anything may happen in an accident. You cause an accident where there is a 5 car pileup. Your insurance will pay for all the 5 car repairs, rentals, medical bills, any lawsuits etc.

Last edited by carboy : 10th June 2010 at 07:50.
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Old 10th June 2010, 08:27   #173
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Originally Posted by devarshi84 View Post
I get a Honda/ Toyota sedan frequently when we rent unless it's a van. Also, we see more cabs using American brands or Toyota's coz of space, comfort, insurance, spares costs and ease of repairs. Honda does want to sell to car rental companies but its the companies that dont buy. FYI, Honda has the highest insurance rates of all brands keeping companies away.
In my few dozens of rental in US on both coasts, I never ever saw a Honda in the rental yard. Rental companies only buy if the manufacturer provides huge discounts to showroom price, and Honda does not do this. Most of the fleet is Chevy, Ford etc because they go down the most. Toyota Corolla is one Jap car which you can get on rent as well, and I have rented on some occassions. So, you have got your data mixed up wrt Honda and rental car companies.
As for insurance, I have no idea here, so that maybe the case.
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Old 10th June 2010, 08:39   #174
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Originally Posted by lancer_rit View Post
In my few dozens of rental in US on both coasts, I never ever saw a Honda in the rental yard. Rental companies only buy if the manufacturer provides huge discounts to showroom price, and Honda does not do this. Most of the fleet is Chevy, Ford etc because they go down the most. Toyota Corolla is one Jap car which you can get on rent as well, and I have rented on some occassions. So, you have got your data mixed up wrt Honda and rental car companies.
As for insurance, I have no idea here, so that maybe the case.
I too have never rented a honda in US. I have driven Chevy, dodge, chrysler, toyota, nissan and hyundai - and I have only rented from Enterprise as they have a location almost everywhere, provide cheap rates and have pick up/drop facility.
But I guess we are deviating from the May 2010 India sales.
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Old 10th June 2010, 09:05   #175
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...PS: How come We dont see Force motors, ICML and Premier RIo numbers on the list? No sales or they dont disclose?
The above manufacturers / importers do not submit their sales data to SIAM.
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Old 10th June 2010, 09:17   #176
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Guys,
I am not sure if the Honda sells to fleet in US or not, but all I know is this thread is to discuss sales in May in India.

I dont think anyone here cares how much Honda sells in US. The posts in this thread for last few days are only on Honda and do they sell in US to fleet or not.

For people like me, it makes no difference dont think there is any point arguing on this.
Can we stick to the topic of this thread please.
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Old 10th June 2010, 10:35   #177
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Originally Posted by karpusv View Post
Am not sure who, but someone did ask for this somewhere in this thread.

Attachment 364111

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@karupsv- That was simply great. Just one confirmation needed - I find the numbers between Ritz and i20 to be exactly the same for all the months. Looks to be an error can you please confirm?
Edit: I think you have aleady posted the corrected figures again. I didn't notice. Sorry.

Last edited by pacman2881 : 10th June 2010 at 10:40.
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Old 10th June 2010, 19:30   #178
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Originally Posted by xingamazon View Post
Guys,
I am not sure if the Honda sells to fleet in US or not, but all I know is this thread is to discuss sales in May in India.

I dont think anyone here cares how much Honda sells in US. The posts in this thread for last few days are only on Honda and do they sell in US to fleet or not.

For people like me, it makes no difference dont think there is any point arguing on this.
Can we stick to the topic of this thread please.
Agreed. I felt the way some people posted on this topic was a bit childish.

For any one,

Vehicle Make and Model Ratings
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Old 11th June 2010, 00:24   #179
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Originally Posted by gaddiwale View Post
Thanks buddy for the data. I would be happy to see the split sales data for petrol and diesel cars of models like - Swift, Ritz, i20 and Figo. Could you kindly source that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by karpusv View Post
Am not sure who, but someone did ask for this somewhere in this thread.
Hi karpusv, thanks a lot for the petrol and diesel split data.

The data shows an amazing trend. Among the top four models (Swift, Ritz, i20 and Figo) which offers both petrol and diesel variants, three models sold ~55% diesel and ~45% petrol variants. Except i20, where pertol (86%)out numbered diesel (14%) variant.

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What may be the reason?

1. People become more aware about the modern refined diesel engines?

2. They are not much bother to bear the initial higher cost of diesel cars but more keen to take the advantage of low running costs?

3. But then why i20 diesel is not selling well? May be i20 diesel is exorbitantly higher in cost as far as hatch back is concern? In that price they can by a diesel sedan (Maruti Dzire)?

4. I think this should be an eye opener for Honda - they should reduce the price of the Jazz and simultaneously launch a diesel variant too. IMO in India very few people are willing to pay more than 6.0 lakhs for a hatchback car. Instead they'll love to buy a sedan. Honda should understand nothing is premium today - to see an upward moving sales graph they should make their cars more affordable.

5. Looking at this trend Chevy also launch a diesel Beat ASAP. Hyundai can also give a tough competition to others with addtion of an i10 diesel.
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Old 11th June 2010, 15:10   #180
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Hey Can anyone please send the link for sales figures for all models for Jan 2010 to May 2010? I am feeling a bit lazy to browse through all the pages and check the same
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