Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 29th October 2005, 05:25   #31
BHPian
 
chaxy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: hyderabad
Posts: 387
Thanked: 16 Times
Default

If you are a guy who buys a car to keep it for around 5 yrs or more then its makes more sense investing in a toyota Innova compared to scorpio or dicor. If you are a guy who buys a SUV for 2-3 yrs just for the sheer feel of a SUV then Dicor or Scorpio. I have seen 1 yr old scorpios and Safaris rattling and visiting the garage every month twice.
chaxy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th October 2005, 05:26   #32
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kalyani, West Bengal
Posts: 444
Thanked: 6 Times
Default

Innova is a different class of vehicle than Dicor but it is also way more reliable and will outlast the DICOR.

As for true SUV, only few qualify as true off roader, sadly Safari is not one of them, no matter what the ads show, Gypsy, Gurkha and of course Land Cruiser, Terracan, Endevour with limited ability all qualify as serious off roaders. Note I have left Grand Vittara and X-Trail out, cause they don't fit the criteria of serious off road machines.

In TATA's favor, parts are cheap, the 407 truck derived engine provides torque at the cost of vibration and refinement, cant come close to the Innova's engine there, it has a good design and looks nicer than Innova which has a identity crisis of trying to be a Van/Estate look, at least the older Qualis had a particular look, hard to decide with this one.
Gurkha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th October 2005, 07:06   #33
Senior - BHPian
 
devarshi84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ahmedabad - Tor
Posts: 3,996
Thanked: 118 Times
Default

I have seen a different vision of safari. I know people who have 7 year old safaris and sierras and they still use it.

Dicor is way up on these old cars. Ask Steeroid and he will tell you about the car. Yes there will be knick knacks around which Toyota doesnt have but The Dicor is certainly longlasting.
devarshi84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th October 2005, 07:30   #34
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kalyani, West Bengal
Posts: 444
Thanked: 6 Times
Default

Long-lasting than the Innova, I truly doubt that, actually the Safari has far more knick knacks than Innova, thats how they sell it to public, don't know about long term users, had Safari for 8 months and got rid of it when my expensive Delo 400 started disappearing mysteriously every week and the power-train lash got worse with differential droning. Longevity is not the forte' of any Tata vehicles and that goes for their commercial vehicles as well, the Leyland-HINO-ZF combo outlasts TATA Cummins combo by lakhs of miles. The only respite is that they are cheap to re-build.

BTW: Innova is a different class, they don't even offer 4WD, actually the Frontrunner will be the direct competition to Safari.
Gurkha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th October 2005, 09:24   #35
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: HYDERABAD
Posts: 244
Thanked: 20 Times
Default

nothing else is better than tatasafari only dropback would be resale value
else go in for an innova
its the better choice for time being thinking of fe and resale value maintenance etc
go for innova if going for a perfect car

else
for a safari for extra punch in offroading
trinadha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th October 2005, 14:50   #36
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: NA
Posts: 1,219
Thanked: 21 Times
Default

None of the cars mentioned are reknown for being great off roaders. They are built primarily for road use and the most refined one out the lot is the Innova.

It has great interiors, is comfortable and its engine should be a good reliable performer. It should depreciate the least out the cars mentioned.
bigman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th October 2005, 14:31   #37
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N.A
Posts: 6,834
Thanked: 1,503 Times
Default

Innova is great value for money and an excellent vehicle if you dont mind the looks. The Dicor looks great but is simply not up there in terms of quality. However, the long-distance comfort on the Safari is amazing - you can drive on and on and on and still feel no fatigue whatsoever, and you invariably end up doing better times between distances than the 'faster' cars out on the road, because it simply smothers bad roads where the 'cars' have to tread carefully.

If the usage is primarily for the city, go for the Innova. If you enjoy long-distance driving, go for the Dicor but be prepared to enlarge your circle of friends and accomodate the Tata Motors service engineers.
Steeroid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th October 2005, 17:38   #38
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kalyani, West Bengal
Posts: 444
Thanked: 6 Times
Default

Steeroid,

Don't mean to sound patronizing but you are among the very few who gives an objective report on their ownership, most go toward vanity and would never admit fault in their purchase, to me, no vehicle is perfect, expecting so would be futile, we all prioritize according to our needs to get what we want. For instance, my Gurkha has no a/c, can't be put as there is no space in the engine bay and also the air pump takes the space up, so I sweat when others go in cool comfort, my Jonga is another case, the HINO engine shakes up its chassis and is loud as well compared to other civilized vehicle and yet, you won't see me part with this vehicle no matter what. They all have their pluses and minuses, depends on what one is willing to settle for.
Gurkha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th October 2005, 20:11   #39
Team-BHP Support
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 7,315
Thanked: 23,888 Times
Default

For price and looks, Scorpio. For safety, comfort, refinement and finesse, Innova. Both these vehicles seem to be doing pretty well. Just look around you and you'll see many of them.
The Safari Dicor? I don't see more than probably one per week.
Aditya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th October 2005, 21:07   #40
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N.A
Posts: 6,834
Thanked: 1,503 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aditya
The Safari Dicor? I don't see more than probably one per week.
Jeez Aditya, we must be running into each other every once in a while then...please remember to say hello the next time around


Jokes apart, Tata produces 15 Safaris a day (18 on a good day) and its been in the market for about 2 months (deliveries started around the 12th of August, Tata works 6 days a week, Thursdays are off) which makes it about a 1000 (ballpark figure - lets not debate on the exact count) vehicles on the road so far - spread that around India and you cant see many on a given week, any which way you look at it.

In any case, there are two Dicors in TBHP so far. If you dont see enough of them in any given week, feel free to click on my thread with the pics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurkha
Don't mean to sound patronizing but you are among the very few who gives an objective report on their ownership, most go toward vanity and would never admit fault in their purchase
SNIP SNIP
my Jonga is another case, the HINO engine shakes up its chassis and is loud as well compared to other civilized vehicle and yet, you won't see me part with this vehicle no matter what. They all have their pluses and minuses, depends on what one is willing to settle for.
Gurkha, I thought I was trying to be objective there. Somebody here wants to make a decision, so he should know the pros and cons (actually, the cons more than the pros). I like the Dicor, but I was trying to put on another hat and think in terms of what might irritate a potential buyer.

And for the record, I WASNT admiting any fault in my purchase - it delivers what I expected from it. Mind you, the Tata Motors service engineers are not such a bad lot - Giri has become a very good friend and I've learnt a lot from him as well...


NUFF SAID - LETS GET BACK TO THE INNOVA-SCORPIO CRDe DEBATE.

Last edited by Steeroid : 30th October 2005 at 21:09.
Steeroid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st October 2005, 15:00   #41
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: chennai
Posts: 758
Thanked: 300 Times
Default

Hello, I am also in the same boat as sreeram is. I had a indica dls and sold it recently. I dont have a choice (as innova is out of my reach and i prefer an indian car), I am going to buy a scorpio crde, nonetheless i would like to hear more and more views about the car.
my friend had scorpio, ikon and a zen and he was happiest with the scorpio than the other two in terms of maintenance.
i have read about crde technology and if i am right, the pressure handled by these engies are very high when compared to the conventional onces. i heard it is usually maintenance free, but if anything goes wrong then the spares (related to crdi) are very costly. could someone throw light on this.
tifosikrishna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2005, 03:52   #42
Senior - BHPian
 
devarshi84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ahmedabad - Tor
Posts: 3,996
Thanked: 118 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigman
None of the cars mentioned are reknown for being great off roaders. They are built primarily for road use and the most refined one out the lot is the Innova.

It has great interiors, is comfortable and its engine should be a good reliable performer. It should depreciate the least out the cars mentioned.

long term reliability and minor knick knacks are two different things. Tata cars are sturdy and last longer.

Toyota is certainly better built but is not as sturdy as the dicor.

tata will have a lower resale but you wont enjoy driving Innova as much.

It all rests on the needs. both cars are as different as chalk and cheese, but the DICOR is Indian and hence wins my vote.

If 90% germans buy only mercedes and BMW's then y do only 9% buy tata's and mahindras(just my thought )


Quote:
Hello, I am also in the same boat as sreeram is. I had a indica dls and sold it recently. I dont have a choice (as innova is out of my reach and i prefer an indian car), I am going to buy a scorpio crde, nonetheless i would like to hear more and more views about the car.
my friend had scorpio, ikon and a zen and he was happiest with the scorpio than the other two in terms of maintenance.
i have read about crde technology and if i am right, the pressure handled by these engies are very high when compared to the conventional onces. i heard it is usually maintenance free, but if anything goes wrong then the spares (related to crdi) are very costly. could someone throw light on this.
safari Dicor base model is similar to the scorpio fully speced model and still packs in more features. see if that is in your reach.

Btw scorpio crde is in no way a bad car. While its not really a refined and well built car, there are many who swear by their scorpios.
devarshi84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd November 2005, 20:06   #43
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 6
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

HI All, Hope you all had a good long weekend.

Drove the Innova for a while in city traffic, and some less city traffic!
The maneouvrability was pretty impressive - dont feel the size once inside. However, realized parking/reverse in the city will be a bit of a problem. Also, ride over bad roads (though at slow speeds, 20-30k) was very smooth. And cornering wasnt too bad for the size. And the 3rd row wasnt as cramped as it looks..

Couldnt drive the Dicor though - the dealer nearby had a vehicle "only for display" !!
Should be checking it out the coming weekend.
sreeram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd November 2005, 22:57   #44
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 171
Thanked: 167 Times
Default

> If 90% germans buy only mercedes and BMW's then y do
>only 9% buy tata's and mahindras(just my thought )

I Bought an Indica (petrol) in 2000, thinking the same. I can't say i regretted it, because I believe it is an incredible car, with tremendous power, though not very fuel efficient. But, my cribs have always been with the poor quality of their spares. Belts, Exhausts, suspension. And most importantly, they have poor resale value. Indica Diesel ofcourse has some resale value, but, petrol (Especially the V1 model). I was really attracted to Indigo Marina- Petrol. But, decided against it for, i was made a guinea pig once, didn't wanted to lend myself again.

There lies the answer to why germans would buy their own cars and Indians may not (Not that Tata is lagging in sales)... The biggest difference is - A german manufacturer will stand-by his product, and will support the consumer, instead of experimenting at his expense for development of his car. Tata's have improved their car, but at consumers expense. If they think the consumers who got a bad deal in their early vehicles are happy with them, they are wrong. But, would they buy another Tata again - Surely. Their products are not bad, if one can live with the irritations for great value for money.

I suspect same goes for Scorpio.

I bought the Innova (Diesel) last week, and have driven it around for 700km already. I can safely say, that i enjoyed driving the Indica-Petrol far more, though everyone else from family travelling in the car enjoyed the Innova more.

My priorities were clear - Comfortable, reliable, practical vehicle, that has good resale value. Innova satisfied each of these.

This is not to say Innova is bad to drive. On the contrary, the Petrol Innova is incredible. Diesel Innova being my first diesel, seems to need a bit more gear shifts within the city. Wish they had an automatic option.

Is size a problem? - I'd say not. I have taken it to almost all corners of the city now, and have even parked it in crowded places. But, it does need more space to park, and if you are entering a Galli, that is lesser than 30ft, then you may not be able to turn the car around easily.
hkollar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2005, 01:14   #45
Senior - BHPian
 
devarshi84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ahmedabad - Tor
Posts: 3,996
Thanked: 118 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkollar
> If 90% germans buy only mercedes and BMW's then y do
>only 9% buy tata's and mahindras(just my thought )

I Bought an Indica (petrol) in 2000, thinking the same. I can't say i regretted it, because I believe it is an incredible car, with tremendous power, though not very fuel efficient. But, my cribs have always been with the poor quality of their spares. Belts, Exhausts, suspension. And most importantly, they have poor resale value. Indica Diesel ofcourse has some resale value, but, petrol (Especially the V1 model). I was really attracted to Indigo Marina- Petrol. But, decided against it for, i was made a guinea pig once, didn't wanted to lend myself again.

There lies the answer to why germans would buy their own cars and Indians may not (Not that Tata is lagging in sales)... The biggest difference is - A german manufacturer will stand-by his product, and will support the consumer, instead of experimenting at his expense for development of his car. Tata's have improved their car, but at consumers expense. If they think the consumers who got a bad deal in their early vehicles are happy with them, they are wrong. But, would they buy another Tata again - Surely. Their products are not bad, if one can live with the irritations for great value for money.

I suspect same goes for Scorpio.

I bought the Innova (Diesel) last week, and have driven it around for 700km already. I can safely say, that i enjoyed driving the Indica-Petrol far more, though everyone else from family travelling in the car enjoyed the Innova more.

My priorities were clear - Comfortable, reliable, practical vehicle, that has good resale value. Innova satisfied each of these.

This is not to say Innova is bad to drive. On the contrary, the Petrol Innova is incredible. Diesel Innova being my first diesel, seems to need a bit more gear shifts within the city. Wish they had an automatic option.

Is size a problem? - I'd say not. I have taken it to almost all corners of the city now, and have even parked it in crowded places. But, it does need more space to park, and if you are entering a Galli, that is lesser than 30ft, then you may not be able to turn the car around easily.
MY NEXT CAR IS DEFINITELY A SWIFT(WITH abs AND AIRBAGS) OR A FULLY LOADED TATA SAFARI. WHy? because safari is INdian and The swift is the INdian version of swift.

The poor quality of of spares that you are complaining is are not really that poor but yes, they are inferior to the competition.

about the resale I am confused. WHile some here shout that they have got the best resale you have a different vision but I guess it all depends. mercedes as a matter of fact has a bad resale

and then germans cost more while tata gives you value for money and tata and mahindra are equally robust in build but lack badly in quality. Never seen an improved car like the tatas and mahindras(scorpio had 3 major upgrades in its life cycles)

while many problems still remain we need to trust our own Indian companies and give them a chance to show off their potential.
devarshi84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Scorpio 2.6 T vs Scorpio 2.6 CRDe engine comparison Mohnish SUVs, MUVs & 4x4s 20 6th February 2013 11:20
Help me choose a used Scorpio 2.6 SLX / Scorpio 2.6 DX CRDe gbpscars SUVs, MUVs & 4x4s 33 28th July 2008 16:17
Scorpio SLX CRDE or Wait for Scorpio Eagle or Used Elantra or Wait for Skoda Fabia ? dharmu99 Hatchbacks 9 25th October 2007 12:22
crde vs non crde trinadha The Indian Car Scene 8 7th March 2006 11:21
SCORPIO CRDe launched .anshuman The Indian Car Scene 1 1st March 2005 18:03


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 01:17.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks