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Old 10th November 2005, 11:04   #61
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i fully agree with devarshi84
here are some of my observations.
we indians are basically complaining type. we have the habit of accepting anything foreign without questioning. in an earlier post in this forum i have stated that taxi trade is more demanding than personal use. and such a trade is accepted indica more than maruti's , hyundai's etc( in diesels it self) why? only Ajay replied.
the main reason i feel for the complaints against TATA is their poor marketing response compared to say hyundai. people do have problems with hyndai or maruti also( mclaren with RNS) but it is hushed up more( my personal feeling) TATA wont respond to many allegations.
very recently TOYOTA recalled a whooping 1.4 million cars worldwide. if toyota does not release bug free vehicles as claimed by some in this forum how come so many cars are being recalled?
another thing, some one said companies like Honda, toyota are brand conscious and replace any defective vehicle. did any of these MNC's did recall a car or replace a car INdia? a Big NO. further recenltly Honda refused allow waranty on flood affetced cars in Mumbai. TATa did not do it. why a comapny like HOnda so particular about brand image did it in india?
the main reason is Lax rules and prolonged court procedures. these MNC's do replace cars etc in USAor UK bec consumer law is very strict and prompt. if they do not do they have to pay huge compensation. so they do it there. the same companies are not doing it in india.
the entry of TATA in passenger car market has shook up many of these companies. they have to get out of their complacency and provide certain basic features like side impact beams, collapsible steering column etc and also to reduce the prices.
general public should acknowledge the contribution of TATA to car merket.

Last edited by rkg : 10th November 2005 at 11:06.
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Old 10th November 2005, 11:17   #62
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While acknowledging the progress made by Tata Motors, I must say that their attention to detail is non-existent at the moment. Its not that their vehicles are badly made - its just that the finer details are not given as much attention as they should've been. My troubles with my Dicor have all been due to bad QC of bought out components (made by 3rd party manufacturers) or poor attention to detail (usually in the electrical / wiring department).

Both Quality Consciousness and Attention to Detail are traits that cannot be bought or developed overnight - THEY HAVE TO BECOME PART OF THE CORPORATE CULTURE. THESE TRAITS HAVE TO BE INGRAINED IN THE ORGANIZATION, RIGHT FROM THE GATES OF THE FACTORY TO THE SWEEPERS/CLEANERS IN CHARGE OF MAINTAINING HYGIENE.

This is Toyota's forte today...they are the ones who practically invented TQM in manufacturing. Tata has the basic strengths, but they need a complete change in corporate mindset from the 'chalta hai, we can always fix it later' culture to getting it right the first time, every time.

Long way to go.
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Old 10th November 2005, 14:12   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devarshi84
Well considering tata is a new company it beats toyota in India at present and thats wat matters.

tata does most of the bug fixes after releasing the car coz tata is not the only company to do so. Each and every company manufacturing car at present has had car recalls and bug fixes, May it be Honda,toyota,mitsubishi,nissan,ford,GM,BMW or whichever.

we are not talking about quality but reliability. There will be people driving a tata or a mahindra after 10years also but I doubt the same with a toyota.

Well If I believe in what you said about the pickup of Indica V2 then why are so many Indiaca's selling?????tell this to the Indica v2owners. I dont own one but I have test driven one and I will say your statement is purely an exxageration.

Secondly about comparing toyota and tata. tata sells indica for 4lacs but toyota sold qualis for 8 lakhs. Indica is just 4-5 years old while qualis is more than 20 years old. if qualis would have had niggling problems I will say toyota should shut down their factories and sit at home. If Indica sells for 25 years then even Indica wont have any niggling problems. look at the 20 year old maruti 800 and tell me if it has any niggling problems.

A 4 years old Indica platform car sells for 4 lacs. A 20 year old maruti 800 platform car sells for 2lacs then why is a more than 20 year old qualis selling for a huge 7lacs? Shouldnt it be in competition to the tata sumo???
- Devarishi, Will a product be Reliable if it does not have Quality???
Indica's are selling coz of FE and nothing else. how many indica petrols leave the showrooms? if it was not for Diesel FE, indica would probably never had any success stories to write about.

if everyone goes by your suggestion, then we must all stop buying cars till they cross their 25th yr on the assembly lines.Coz only then they will be "reliable" and will have "QUALITY"
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Old 10th November 2005, 14:18   #64
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Yes, it can still be reliable. The indica V2 has poor quality. Poor quality finish, plastics and panel gaps. But still its reliable.
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Old 10th November 2005, 14:21   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajay
Indica's are selling coz of FE and nothing else. how many indica petrols leave the showrooms? if it was not for Diesel FE, indica would probably never had any success stories to write about.
Maybe we could ask Tata Motors as to the exact figure - of how many Indica petrols leave the showrooms! Rather than 'authoritatively' state something like this.
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Old 10th November 2005, 14:27   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hrag
Maybe we could ask Tata Motors as to the exact figure - of how many Indica petrols leave the showrooms! Rather than 'authoritatively' state something like this.
- Do you mean to say there are more number of petrol indica's being sold than the diesel ones'??
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Old 10th November 2005, 14:32   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajay
- Do you mean to say there are more number of petrol indica's being sold than the diesel ones'??
No, if I understood your question correctly - you wanted to know how many petrol Indicas leave the showrooms? Tata Motors would be the right people to answer that, wouldn't they?

What I termed your 'authoritative' statement was 'Indicas sell for FE and nothing else'.
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Old 10th November 2005, 14:48   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hrag
No, if I understood your question correctly - you wanted to know how many petrol Indicas leave the showrooms? Tata Motors would be the right people to answer that, wouldn't they?

What I termed your 'authoritative' statement was 'Indicas sell for FE and nothing else'.
- Why do you think people dont buy more of Indica petrols'?
They have collapsible steering, Side impact beams etc etc too!
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Old 10th November 2005, 15:01   #69
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Because competition is better FE and lower maintainance cost. In that segment FE counts.
For the record, people buy more indica petrols than Fiat Palio 1.2s even though quality of Fiat is better. But since reliability of fiat is poor inspite of having good quality, and FE is also same as indica sales are low. Now by reliability I do not mean fiat cars break down and all, but if you have a problem, there is a good chance that you will have trouble getting it repaired, esp if you are not in a metro.

If Indica V2 petrol offered same FE as the santro, then it would sell much larger numbers.
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Old 10th November 2005, 15:26   #70
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- We had a tata indica DLS bought in 2004 in our family. We faced innumerable amount of problems, fuel pump- twice in less than six months. Myriad number of problems later, we sold it and traded it in for a Wagon-R.I do not term this "Reliable".
The term Quality does not apply only to fit and finish, panel gaps , paint etc. it must also denote long term ownership experience which must be a good one.
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Old 10th November 2005, 15:30   #71
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Based on your car you are terming the whole lot bad, eh. There are innumerable Tata indica V2 Diesel owners in this forum who have not faced this problem which you got. Most indicas have had problems pertaining to electricals. Infact there are so many taxis with 2 lac kms+ speaks volumes about the reliability.

As for your case, having FP replaced is a big thing. I got my overhauled after damage in an accident. According to the engineer mine would have had to be overhauled at around 65000kms as they found lots of foreign matter in the fuel pump system.

Last edited by tsk1979 : 10th November 2005 at 15:32.
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Old 10th November 2005, 15:42   #72
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@Tsk, though I personally like new Indica V2, on T-BHP itself I have seen quite a few people complaining about Indica. So, I don't think Ajay's opinion is an isolated case. I don't remember who was it, but there was an almost comic narration of problems faced by one youngster on this forum. (Where he had to keep on pushing his car every now and then).
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Old 10th November 2005, 15:47   #73
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I am not saying indica is the best quality car etc., but its not as bad as people make it out to be!
And for that pusher, thats me. And the culprit was a rat(maybe 2-3 rats) + water in the electrical system which rats had had a fest on(I spend 8K on Ac compressor due to water damage too).
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Old 10th November 2005, 15:57   #74
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Common, you are not a youngster any more..are you? I just checked and found out it was "dadudeonthefire". Read his review, it is almost comical to go through it.
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Old 10th November 2005, 16:00   #75
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I remeber that one. Its the funniest review on t-bhp
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